Pi, Golden Ratio and Speed of Light encoded into Great Pyramid

Originally posted by Harte
Yes, and when was the first pendulum clock invented?

Harte

You don't have to invent a sophisticated pendulum clock, you just have to count the swings of a bob on a line. A line of a certain length will swing 86400/42300 times per given astronomical period. That can then be used to produce a standard measure of length.

Implementing a basic oscillator is not hard. Creating mechanical counting mechanisms and getting other people to follow your convention is what is hard.

Originally posted by yampa

Originally posted by Harte
Yes, and when was the first pendulum clock invented?

Harte

You don't have to invent a sophisticated pendulum clock, you just have to count the swings of a bob on a line. A line of a certain length will swing 86400/42300 times per given astronomical period. That can then be used to produce a standard measure of length.

A line of "a certain length" will swing any number of times one wishes during an astronomical period - depending on the length of the line you use. So, are you saying that, coincidentally, the modern second was adopted by some experimenter in the past and, despite the inability to get anyone to adopt the standard, it was "encoded" into the Great Pyramid as part of the velocity of light? Along with the modern meter (instead of the standard for the era - the cubit)?

I think you might want to reconsider exactly what it is you are trying to support here with your argument.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte
A line of "a certain length" will swing any number of times one wishes during an astronomical period - depenmding on the length of the line you use.

I think you might want to reconsider exactly what it is you are trying to support here with your argument.

Harte

Harte

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You pick 86400 because makes it easy to do calculations using the sexegesimal system. There is a certain length of rod which will swing the exact same amount of times as to fit into the period or harmonic of 86400. That length is 997mm wherever Huygens took his measurement. That is 99.7% close to the current metric meter. There is nothing about that experiment which could not be repeated by the ancients. That 997mm might be 1000mm at least once place on earth - I wonder where?

Of course, taking fine measures on delicate instruments like pendulums is subject to many varibles. Temperature, for instance. Physics calculations on pendulums require a fixed temperature. I imagine that would be quite difficult to do in warm place like Giza. Hmmm, now where would you find a climate controlled chamber (say around room temperature of 20c/68 °F) in ancient Egypt in order to take those measurements..?

The so-called 'star-shaft's' were predicted (for air conditioning) before they were found. It was Col Vyse who first cleared out the air shafts to the King’s Chamber and it is said that once opened, an immediate rush of cool air entered the King's Chamber which maintains an even temperature of 68° to this day regardless of the weather outside. Although this fact is apparent, it is questionable whether this was their original function.

The extraordinary amount of work that builders undertook in order to complete the 'star-shafts' makes it clear that they were considered a fundamental part of the design. They do not appear in any other Egyptian structure, and therefore have no context in which to place them

Guess you might want some kind of weight for that pendulum too..?

Originally posted by yampa

Originally posted by Harte
A line of "a certain length" will swing any number of times one wishes during an astronomical period - depending on the length of the line you use.

I think you might want to reconsider exactly what it is you are trying to support here with your argument.


Harte

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You pick 86400 because makes it easy to do calculations using the sexegesimal system. There is a certain length of rod which will swing the exact same amount of times as to fit into the period or harmonic of 86400.

So do 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, 30, and 60 among an infinite number of others, which was why i said you must be relying on coincidence alone.

Originally posted by yampaThat length is 997mm wherever Huygens took his measurement. That is 99.7% close to the current metric meter. There is nothing about that experiment which could not be repeated by the ancients. That 997mm might be 1000mm at least once place on earth - I wonder where?

And no cubit? Why use the Royal (or common) cubit for measuring everything except the speed of light?

Glad you quoted me - I needed to edit (fat fingers and no typing skills!)

And how would you propose that the Egyptians measured the speed of light in meters per second to such a degree of accuracy? Did they have their own version of Michelson-Morley?

Harte

Originally posted by Harte
So do 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, 30, and 60 among an infinite number of others, which was why i said you must be relying on coincidence alone.

And no cubit? Why use the Royal (or common) cubit for measuring everything except the speed of light?

And how would you propose that the Egyptians measured the speed of light in meters per second to such a degree of accuracy? Did they have their own version of Michelson-Morley?

Harte

Was Huygens relying on 'coincidence alone' when he timed his 997mm pendulum against a 43200 two-second day? Or did he pick that number because it's the same base that humans have been using for seconds for at least 3000 years?

I personally have no derivation for the speed of light using only these tools. yet. But there are countless threads here and elsewhere showing the surprising conversions/anomalies surrounding many ancient and modern units. But your mileage may vary

I found a good match to my hypothesis here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Scott Creighton
As for the metre. If the designers understood and could measure a second of time (the AE astronomer-priests may well have understood a second of time since it was apparently understood by the Sumerians who preceded them), then the simple calibration of a pendulum to the second will naturally (as a result of gravitational acceleration at Giza = 9.793 m/s^2) produce a cord length of 39.028 inches (99.13cm). Very close to the metre.

If we then multiply 39.028 x 148 (the duration of the autumn equinox at Giza in seconds) then we obtain 5776 inches (rounded). If we then divide 5776 inches by the most commonly quoted cubit length of 20.62 inches we have a height for the Great Pyramid in cubits of 280.1 cubits. Very close to its actual quoted original height of 280 cubits. If we then add the height and base of the Great Pyramid together we obtain 14,848.91 inches. Divide this value by 720 (the number of minutes in half of 1 solar day) and we have:

14848.91 / 720 = 20.62 inches (rounded). Much closer to your value of 20.55 inches (0.522 m).

But, of course, I will never be able to prove that my method of deriving the cubit length from the equinoctial sunset at Giza is correct. I am merely showing you that there are other means to arrive at the desired result.

edit on 5-1-2013 by yampa because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by yampa

If you ask me, I think that those two objects look more like the Death Star and an X-Wing fighter. Not only did the Egyptians know which forms of measurement we'd be using in modern times, but also what we'd be watching on TV.

Those guys never cease to amaze me. I can only assume that the wooden slat that isn't pictured was part of their Star Wars miniture display case.

Originally posted by RMFX1

Originally posted by yampa

If you ask me, I think that those two objects look more like the Death Star and an X-Wing fighter. Not only did the Egyptians know which forms of measurement we'd be using in modern times, but also what we'd be watching on TV.

Those guys never cease to amaze me. I can only assume that the wooden slat that isn't pictured was part of their Star Wars miniture display case.

edit on 5-1-2013 by RMFX1 because: sp

Looks a bit like the bob on the end of this reconstruction of one of Huygen's pendulum clocks to me bro! But keep smoking what you have there.



But Huygens used silk for his early rods:

"This allowed a practical means of calibrating the individual components. Also, the silk threads of the pendulum rod in this design were extremely light and strong with little stretch and high resistance to rot, and they also minimized friction at the pivot point. They were ideal for Huygens. "

reply to post by yampa


I knew what you were getting at bro. Which is why I said it looks "more like". Meaning that it looks more like something silly than the parts of a pendulum.

I think they could be anything. They could be parts or a giant door knocker, maybe part of a bell wringer. Anything at all. It is a massive leap to assume that it's part of a pendulum clock.

Originally posted by RMFX1
reply to post by yampa

 

I knew what you were getting at bro. Which is why I said it looks "more like". Meaning that it looks more like something silly than the parts of a pendulum.

I think they could be anything. They could be parts or a giant door knocker, maybe part of a bell wringer. Anything at all. It is a massive leap to assume that it's part of a pendulum clock.

I never said I thought it was part of a mechanical clock. I said it looks like the bob on a pendulum.

Mechanics aren't required if you have diligent observers.

Okay, so upon converting Degrees, Minutes and Seconds into Metric Geo-coordinates, I come up with:
29.9792458 N, 31.134197222 E for the exact location of the Grand Gallery. We recognize the speed of light here, so what's the underlying significance for the East coordinate??

Originally posted by Toelint
Okay, so upon converting Degrees, Minutes and Seconds into Metric Geo-coordinates, I come up with:
29.9792458 N, 31.134197222 E for the exact location of the Grand Gallery. We recognize the speed of light here, so what's the underlying significance for the East coordinate??

I haven't been able to pull up anything interesting for the longitude yet. The Pyramids are about 4 miles from the Nile (apparently there was a transit canal from the Nile). I would assume that the further they are from the Nile, the harder the pyramids would be to build - so you could just say the longitude is because of the Nile.

31.134197222 degrees = 31 degrees 8 arc minutes 3.11 arc seconds *shrug*

Hi All,

Very interesting thread. Some random thoughts of my own just to add to the mix.

Pi, Phi, Pythagorean triples etc. These values can be placed entirely unwittingly i.e. without the designer's knowledge into the proportions of the pyramids. How can this occur? By designing the basic structures with the use of a square and circle, thus:



And...

The Gizamids - Designed from a Square and Circle

I hope that the above demonstrates that there is little need to be aware of Pi, Phi etc in order for these values to find their way (unwittingly) into the proportions of the pyramids.

Let's consider time. Time is two circles. One of daylight, the other of night-time. Let us take a circle. What are the most obvious things about a circle? Its radius, diameter and circumference. Here we have a circle with its radius:



The radius can be used to section the circle (i.e. ANY circle) into 6 parts, thus:



So, let us now number each of the sections 1,2,3,4,5 and 6. And let us multiply these values i.e. 1x2x3x4x5x6 = 720, thus:



Thus by utilising the most basic attributes of a circle and with the basic arithmetic derived from the circle, we find that the circle is naturally divided into 720 parts - half of 1 day (the first circle) of 1440 minutes. Yes - it's that simple.

Now let's take things forward a little. What is the diameter of our circle and how can we devise a method to make sure that the measure of this diameter will ALWAYS be the same? We use the simple pendulum. How do we do this?

Well, at Giza we find that upon the equinox the setting of the sun (i.e. from when the base rim of the sun disc touches the horizon to the upper rim of the sun disc touching the horizon) takes almost exactly 148 seconds. Now, assuming the AEs understood the second (and it is not too difficult to determine), for a pendulum to beat 148 times (the duration in seconds of the equinoctial sunset at Giza) then the pendulum cord length will have to be almost exactly 1 metre in length. Too long and it will have too few beats. Too short and it will have too many beats. To obtain 148 beats the cord must be almost exactly 1 metre in length. Thus the metre is defined through natural and repeatable phenomena. Incidentally, 148 x 39 inches (rounded down metre) = 5772 inches - the height of the Great Pyramid. Of course the height x pi/2 = 9067 inches (rounded up) is the width of the Great Pyramid. And here we have - as if to provide a checksum - 5772 + 9067 = 14839. (i.e. our two key values of 148 and 39).

So, now that we have defined the metre (i.e. a pendulum cord length at Giza defined from the sunset duration), let us use this as the diameter of our circle, thus:



Thus we find that 1/6th (the natural sectioning of a circle by its diameter into 6 parts) of the circle's perimeter from a metre diameter is equal to the AE cubit of around 20.618 inches. (or 0.52 meters). I do not claim that the values are perfectly, spot on - but close enough. Perhaps some food for thought.

Regards,

SC

An interesting thing about the height to width ratio of the Great Pyramid is that it suggests the octal number base was used. The pyramid is stated as being 440 "cubits" wide by 280 high. In other words, the height is 0.63636 times the width.

Let's say, instead, that the width is 512 units, which is a power of two number. Using the same sized units, the height would be slightly less than 326 units. Now let's convert these decimal numbers to octal:

512 decimal = 1000 octal
326 decimal = 506 octal, which is close to a nice round 500.

So, defining the Great Pyramid as 1000 octal units wide by 500 octal units high, is within 2% of the published height to width ratio. Given that the original dimensions are not known as fact, it could be perfectly accurate, and would show octal was used.

Also using the same sized units, the length of each corner, from the base to the apex, is 750 octal.

reply to post by murkraz


www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think phi and golden ratio and sacred geometry are awesome.

Originally posted by Trafalgar1805
Also using the same sized units, the length of each corner, from the base to the apex, is 750 octal.

edit on 5-2-2013 by Trafalgar1805 because: (no reason given)

My calculations were slightly wrong for this - it works out about 743 (octal) for the corner. However, the 1000:500 (octal) width to height ratio of the pyramid is still valid.

So, I came up with this equation based on pi, the golden ratio, and euler's identity ('the most beautiful equation in mathematics'). It also uses whole number fractions to give close estimates to the mean orbital velocity of the moon, the rotational period of the moon, and also the number of sidereal seconds in a day.

From this equation I am able to get a sequence of numbers which matches the currently accepted speed of light in km/h down to 0.6. The speed of light is - 299 792 458 k/ms - I get 299 792 457 km/s.

I don't fully understand this equation yet, maybe it's even worth a thread of its own, or maybe just a funny coincidence..

(12000 * (45/44) * (e^(1+pi)) (pi^(-1-e)) * ((2 * golden angle) - (100/41)) ) / 86164 = 0.299 792 457 4844114783520797885

You can paste: /input/?i=(12000+*+(45/44)+*+((e^(1%2Bpi))+(pi^(-1-e)))+*++((2+*+golden+angle)+-+(100/41))+)+/+86164 after www.wolframalpha.com to see this.



I think these numbers come from(I haven't fully done the work on this yet):

12000 x 45/44 is used to approximate the mean orbital velocity of the moon

2 Cga is the Golden Angle - (100/41) - is used to approximate the rotational period of the moon in hours

86164 is the number of sidereal seconds a day

e^(1+pi) x pi^(-1-e) = 0.8915126257 = is an unknown constant which uses something with looks suspiciously like Euler's identity?


So lets check this equation against google to make sure we can use the number from the equation to produce the latitude for the great pyramid:



I found this out by copying another person's work using moon orbits, and I replaced the observation based (and probably hacked) constants they use with closely matching mathematical constants.

Originally posted by scepticsRus
ok, levelling the ground ! that's a pretty simple process than anyone can do with a self levelling substance .... water in this instance.

they would have cut a grid pattern into the ground and flooded it, it would then be a simple process of removing the ground upto the water level. it's really that simple ...

we didn't invent physics it's been around since the beginning but known by different names. likewise finding the compass directions can be found be using the sun and a few sticks.

moving large blocks also becomes a little simpler with lubrication .... water again wound help here maybe with a little animal fat mixed in, he'll even sand could be used as its fluid when in large quantities etc or even logs to roll the blocks on.

you do know the stones are all different sizes and weights, right? I think they were built by someone far earlier than the eqyptians of 4 to 6 thousand years ago, using simple building physics. the engineers of today that do actually go over there and see for themselves, are all amazed by the engineering feat....people that work with stone know that this construction cannot have been done by the methods that have so far tried to explain it.
and least you forget, there has never been anything built like this using the material, the precision, and the constraint of time since. although, I am not going to say aliens did it simply because I don't know, but a an Egyptian pharoh ordering the building of his own burial mausoleum, and this is what was done?...I don't believe it

reply to post by yampa


Granted, that what Scott Creighton wrote is true, there are still a horde of coincidences that are far to many to actually be simply coincidences.
Its such a shame this thread went awol as you made some good points, and for once kept the pace of academia, which proves my point that its lack of information/knowledge that makes it look like they are always right. We need more people like you if we want to be credible.
Anyway, the location of Khufu's pyramid (center of tne landmass), and the alignement w/ other inportant sites on other continets should be enuff to keep a discussion up forever, but theres far more than tha to talk about.....But i guess its old news

Did you find out what that ''orbital velocity of the moon'' longitude corresponds inside the pyramid btw?

Originally posted by bon3z
reply to post by yampa

 

Granted, that what Scott Creighton wrote is true, there are still a horde of coincidences that are far to many to actually be simply coincidences.

Yes Scot explained that well

Its such a shame this thread went awol as you made some good points, and for once kept the pace of academia, which proves my point that its lack of information/knowledge that makes it look like they are always right. We need more people like you if we want to be credible.

Considering that academia is often wrong and the nature of their work is to be find and change things that's to be expected.

Anyway, the location of Khufu's pyramid (center of tne landmass), and the alignement w/ other inportant sites on other continets should be enuff to keep a discussion up forever, but theres far more than tha to talk about.....But i guess its old news

The so called centre of landmass is one of the oldest fringe beliefs about the pyramid - despite the difficulty of figuring out how something is the centre of x on the outer surface of a uneven globe

This is a good review of the centre of the world belief

Did you find out what that ''orbital velocity of the moon'' longitude corresponds inside the pyramid btw?

Yeah what was the answer to that?

You can also find that the speed in light in meters expressed as a latitude of course,(299792.458km/s) also passes though the pyramid and 10,000 of thousands of other things, old thing too and that latitude is repeated twice in circling the world once above and below the equator.....