ICC doubts Libya will try Seif, Libya Updates

THE HAGUE — A lawyer for Moamer Kadhafi's son Seif al-Islam said Friday he doubted Libya was able or willing to try his client, as he asked the International Criminal Court to report the matter to the UN.

Source AFP

"Either they are stonewalling because they are concerned about what he might say to his council... or, they simply do not have the capacity to implement the visit," Keita said.

"Either conclusion undermines their assertation that they are either willing or able to conduct proceedings against Mr Seif al-Islam."

Other sources

UN human rights panel to visit Libya over mercenaries


So there you have it, now a lawyer for Seif al-Islam now also doubts if Libya will either try him at home in libya or sent him to the ICC.

But then the big question is what about the so apparent evidences they found? the apparent 12000 leaked wired phone conservations on to al jazeera?

Libya on the line

You know from last year and this year pre when the protesting started i have seen videos of Gaddafi speeches and speech at the UN.

And i can easily compare and safely the voice on the aljazeera apparent phone call leaked tapes, dont look very conniving.

It seems as fake voice actors, as its easily you can find Arab voice actors and then claim look its bin laden! oh look its Gaddafi voice.

Al jazeera as been showing Propaganda ever since Hillary Clinton gave them a clean cut,
Either i had a feeling they wouldn't try him, and you want to know why? because he knows to much, in my opinion i think they will just leave him in prison and rot him in there.

And what i also find it sad is how the way the rebels captured innocent african migrant workers and treated them like low lives in prisons that they are controlling.

For them to claim that Kadhafi used African migrant workers as mercenaries? and there proof is nothing more then some wired taped phone calls which we cant even tell if thats even Kadhafi voice and documents, which they the rebels claim they found in matter of three months?

Honestly i am doubting that.

What I'm getting from your source is that both Libya and the ICC want to try these individuals. Libya says it gets the first trial and the defense lawyer, understandably, wants to go to the ICC.

I take it you don't want Libya to try them? It's a serious thing to say that a country cannot try its citizens for crimes committed in the country. Are we going to send troops into Libya to capture the men and take them to the ICC? Egypt is trying Mubarak, why can't Libya try these guys?

Originally posted by charles1952
What I'm getting from your source is that both Libya and the ICC want to try these individuals. Libya says it gets the first trial and the defense lawyer, understandably, wants to go to the ICC.

I take it you don't want Libya to try them? It's a serious thing to say that a country cannot try its citizens for crimes committed in the country. Are we going to send troops into Libya to capture the men and take them to the ICC? Egypt is trying Mubarak, why can't Libya try these guys?

You know i am sightly confused by your post but i will try my best to explain the thread, but i hope you arent saying you cant understand what i have stated in the thread.

What I'm getting from your source is that both Libya and the ICC want to try these individuals.

Ugh No thats not quite right at all, what article were you reading it?

from the AFP source.

Xavier-Jean Keita, the defence lawyer appointed by the ICC, said in papers before the Hague-based court that despite several requests to meet Seif, Libyan authorities so far have not cooperated.

"Either conclusion undermines their assertation that they are either willing or able to conduct proceedings against Mr Seif al-Islam."


The lawyer from ICC for Seif al-Islam, and he and the ICC dont believe that Libya is willing going to try him, nor
are they trying to, sure they may shown the mainstream news news outlets the painted courthouse but the question is was the court house that rebels and the NTC showed to the media nothing more then a hogwash?

Either way i doubt that Libya will try him at all, even if they do the ICC will just ask for more evidences.

Is he even still alive?

If his ICC appointed lawyer hasn't even seen him then there's probably a very good reason for that....he's either dead or not in a very good state at all.

I'm sure though that, even if he is alive and gets a trial, it will be crafted with a specific set of charges and anything he says that is not related directly to those charges will be struck from the record and his mic turned off. They did the same to Saddam Hussein. He too had too many stories to tell that would have been very embarrassing indeed for powerful western leaders.

There also doesn't seem to be much in the way of a unified government in Libya either, with militant factions still fighting each other for power. It's not all unicorns and rainbows since the Western powers orchestrated the overthrow, something the media have gone very quiet about!

reply to post by Britguy


Well not aljazeera, aljazeera is still posting this.

Source

Al Jazeera has obtained the mobile phone wiretaps of Al-Baghdadi al-Mahmoudi, Muammar Gaddafi's prime minister and a loyal ally to the Libyan leader almost to the end.

Al Jazeera has obtained the mobile phone wiretaps of Al-Baghdadi al-Mahmoudi, Muammar Gaddafi's prime minister? really Al Jazeera? i doubt that they obtained, they probably faked it, its obvious why you dont see these tapes on other news channel?

The concept of the ICC is a noble one, but in practice it is not the most powerful organisation on Earth and currently tasked with cleaning up the political mess to save face for the US and EU actions. These days they do not need actors to mimic an individuals voice with computers doing a much better job and able to match up voice patterns perfectly with enough source data. I expect Seif also has a lot of underground support in Libya considering the way the invasion played out.

Thanks for the update, but don't hold your your breath waiting for this to be sorted out. Even if the ICC got their hands on him tomorrow these kinds of cases generally take a couple of years at best.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter

Dear Agent_USA_Supporter

What I'm getting from your source is that both Libya and the ICC want to try these individuals.

Ugh No thats not quite right at all, what article were you reading it?

I don't think my conclusion is wrong, here's why. From your source:

Libya has been at loggerheads with the ICC over who has the right to bring former regime figures such as Seif and the dead dictator's spymaster, Abdullah Senussi, to justice.

Both Seif and Senussi are wanted by the Hague-based court for crimes against humanity committed in trying to put down Libya's bloody revolt last year.

Tripoli in early May officially asked the ICC's judges to quash a surrender request and throw out the case, saying Seif would be put in a Libyan dock.

Doesn't this say that both ICC and Libya are fighting over the right to try them? That's what I said.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


You read that the wrong way.