Why God doesn't make sense

I have done a lot of soul searching in the last year or so and have figured a lot out about not only myself, but God as well. Growing up, I always had a hard time understanding God because my religion told me to fear him. I questioned myself. Why would I fear Him when he is all loving. During this time period, I learned to embrace God and let my faith in him take me for a ride. It made my life more enjoyable, as I was able to understand better who I was by better understanding who He was.

I strongly believe that people choose not to understand God because they need someone to blame their wrong-doings on. Most of humanity is too egocentric and they need something to blame every single thing they do wrong ON HIM! They believe that it is Gods fault that there is famine in the World. It is God's fault that there is evil in the World.

People wonder...if God is so great than why did He make this such a disease-ridden evil World? Well I have news for everyone (for those that have not yet been able to understand this), IT IS NOT GODS FAULT IT IS YOURS!! God gave us free will, we took advantage of it, and we are mad because through our free will, we turned our World into a crap hole. So my question is, if God did not give us free will, our World was a Eutopia, and we all did the same thing every day as if we were robots, would people still be mad AT GOD? Of course they would!! They need someone to blame for something!

Our ego's have surfaced full force and now instead of blaming the corrupt politicians, we blame HIM.

My point here is that God is loving. He does make sense and we should not blame him for the things that we have done to this World. I hate to break it to ya, but it is our fault people.

what about heartworm ?

is that DOG's fault? or GOD's?


hmmmmmm

reply to post by xZodiacx


If you're buying the whole kit n' ka-bible, when god killed all the animals in the great flood, was that man's fault?
When god killed all the firstborn of Egypt, was it their fault the Pharoah was an egomaniac?

Originally posted by xZodiacx
My point here is that God is loving. He does make sense and we should not blame him for the things that we have done to this World. I hate to break it to ya, but it is our fault people.

Ok, it is our fault...

Now how do we undo what we have done to fix our mess?

reply to post by jiggerj


I believe the Bible had some value and truths before it got twisted and contorted by religions so they could control the people through it...we can all see that that worked. But when it comes to natural disasters, it seems to be a more gray area for me. Is it created through our karma? Is that why natural disasters have picked up in the last decade? That would mean that the World had no natural disasters before people inhabited it. But the cruel things that have gone on in our World may have set mother Earth off. Just thinking out loud here.

reply to post by AManYouALL


To fix the mess, we need to do what Breitbart says is supposedly going on. We need to be in an environment in which people can be happy without material possessions. Currently, a person's successes in life are most commonly based on their income rather than the positive impact they made on people. Yes people do take into the consideration that when a person passes he may have been a good man, but was he successful? Well, I guess that may depend on the contents of his will nowadays.

You should read these essays on the topic of evil. I think they'll broaden your perspective on the issue:

J.L. Mackie - Evil and Omnipotence
William L. Rowe - The Problem of Evil and Some Varieties of Atheism
Alvin Plantinga - The Free Will Defence (couldn't find the full text online, so this is just a summary)

A snippet of Plantinga's response to Mackie in The Free Will Defence which directly pertains to your thesis:

(a) God is omnipotent, omniscient, and all-good and God creates free men who sometimes perform morally evil actions.

What Mackie says, I think, may best be construed as an argument for the conclusion that (a) is necessarily false; in other words, that God is omnipoten, omniscient, and all good entails no free men He creates ever perform morally evil actions. Mackie’s argument seems to have the following structure:

(1) God is omnipotent and omniscient and all-good.
(2) If god is omnipotent, He can create any logically possible state of affairs.
(3) God can create any logically possible state of affiars. (1,2)
(4) That all free men do what is right on every occasion is a logically possible state of affairs.
(5) God can create free men such that they always do what is right. (4, 3)
(6) If God can create free men such that they always do what is right and God is all-good, then any free men created by God always do what is right
(7) Any free men created by God always do what is right (1, 5, 6)
(8) No free men created by God ever perform morally evil actions (7)

Doubtless the Free Will Defender will concede the truth of (4); there is difficulty
with (2), however; for

(a) That there are men who are not created by God is a logically possible state of affairs

is clearly true. But (2) and (a) entail

(b) If God is omnipotent, God can create men who are not created by God.

And (b), of course, is false; (2) must be revised. The obvious way to repair it seems to be something like the following:

(2’) If God is omnipotent, then God can create any state of affairs S such that God creates S is consistent.

Similarly, (3) must be revised:

(3’) God can create any state of affairs S such that God creates S is consistent.

(1’) and (3’) do not seem to suffer from the faults besetting (1) and (3); but now it is not at all evident that (3’) and (4) entail

(5) God can create free men such that they always do what is right

as the original argument claims. To see this, we must note that (5) is true only if

(5a) God creates free men such that they always do what is right

is consistent. But (5a), one might think, is equivalent to:

(5b) God creates free men and brings it about that they always freely do what is right

And (5b), of course, is not consistent; for if God brings it about that the men He creates always do what is right, then they do not do what is right freely. So if (5a) is taken to express (5b), then (5) is clearly false and clearly not entailed by (3’) and (4).
On the other hand, (5a) could conceivably be used to express:

(5c) God creates free en and these free men always do what is right.

(5c) is surely consistent; it is indeed logically possible that God creates free men and that the free men created by Him always do what is right. And conceivably the objector is using (5) to express this possibility – i.e., it may be that (5) is meant to express:

(5d) the proposition God creates free men and the free men created by God always do what is right is consistent.

If (5) is equivalent to (5d), then (5) is true – in fact necessarily true (and hence trivially entailed by (3’) and (4)). But now the difficulty crops up with respect to (6) which, given the equivalence of (5) and (5d) is equivalent to

(6’) If God is all-good and the proposition God creates free men and the free men He creates always do what is right is consistent, then any free men created by God always do what is right.

Let me know what you think.

Originally posted by xZodiacx

I strongly believe that people choose not to understand God because they need someone to blame their wrong-doings on. Most of humanity is too egocentric and they need something to blame every single thing they do wrong ON HIM! They believe that it is Gods fault that there is famine in the World. It is God's fault that there is evil in the World.

Yes, people do intellectually reject God based on these reasons, and often blasphemy Him if He did exist yet allowed the evil in the world. But these people, and I was one at one time, expect us to live in an utopia if God was really there. Evolution has ingrained this line of thinking into beliefs, because it's version of creation (e.g. No God) seemingly accounts for our present non-utopia. But the thought that is missing is this: God created mankind just as He planned, with murderous impulses, evil and good thoughts, and spiritual blindness. God created our environment just as He planned. Both your view and their view ignore this line of thinking - that God created our present day reality, and that mankind in its present state, either makes it better or makes it worse depending on their beliefs and resulting actions. God is sovereign and complete authority.

People wonder...if God is so great than why did He make this such a disease-ridden evil World? Well I have news for everyone (for those that have not yet been able to understand this), IT IS NOT GODS FAULT IT IS YOURS!! God gave us free will, we took advantage of it, and we are mad because through our free will, we turned our World into a crap hole

As above, our actions are done by us. If we pollute, the environment becomes polluted. If we murder, a life dies. If we choose to cheat on our spouse, the family suffers the consequences. If we do not teach famine ridden areas how to grow their own food, they are forever dependent on others. None of these things are caused by God per se, yet people who believe that God would have created an utopia if He truly existed, seek to blame Him. This is the oft used argument by atheists for rejecting God - that IF He did exist, that He must be a cruel God to allow famine, disease and atrocities to be committed.

My point here is that God is loving. He does make sense and we should not blame him for the things that we have done to this World. I hate to break it to ya, but it is our fault people.

Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
Why did Jesus say this as they were murdering Him? Because God's plan was to fulfill His promises in scripture, and in order to have it accomplished, those calling for His murder had no inkling that God had blinded them to fulfill HIS PLAN FOR HUMANITY. Anyone who is called to Christ, encounters this reality. We see it today as elite groups are doing wicked and evil things to this world, from manipulating beliefs, creating wars, destroying the image of Jesus in the minds of millions of the descendants of the people Israel, yet they are accomplishing God's Will. Many of us, as we are persecuted for our Faith, will be led by the Holy Spirit to forgive them for they "know not what they do".

I just write these simple words because they seemed to missing in your post. Yes, humanity, through their choices, are driving us to the End of the Age. Many make these choices out of the wickedness and evil in their own hearts, whilst others make these choices because they've been deceived and therefore "do not know what they do".



"

Because people created an environment that have things like that fish tongue creature.

I've seen a thread about it on ATS if you're really curious. Some people thought it was a hoax but it's not.

Originally posted by WhoKnows100

Yes, people do intellectually reject God based on these reasons, and often blasphemy Him if He did exist yet allowed the evil in the world. But these people, and I was one at one time, expect us to live in an utopia if God was really there. Evolution has ingrained this line of thinking into beliefs, because it's version of creation (e.g. No God) seemingly accounts for our present non-utopia. But the thought that is missing is this: God created mankind just as He planned, with murderous impulses, evil and good thoughts, and spiritual blindness. God created our environment just as He planned. Both your view and their view ignore this line of thinking - that God created our present day reality, and that mankind in its present state, either makes it better or makes it worse depending on their beliefs and resulting actions. God is sovereign and complete authority.

Its not that complicated an all loving good god would not create evil, pain, and suffering.If god did create these things he is not all loving or good. You say that utopia was destroyed by us yet in the bible (which you quote) clearly says original sin destroyed what was supposed to be a utopia....so is the bible wrong? or are you wrong? and if the bible is wrong why do you believe and quote what it says about jesus?

As above, our actions are done by us. If we pollute, the environment becomes polluted. If we murder, a life dies. If we choose to cheat on our spouse, the family suffers the consequences. If we do not teach famine ridden areas how to grow their own food, they are forever dependent on others. None of these things are caused by God per se, yet people who believe that God would have created an utopia if He truly existed, seek to blame Him. This is the oft used argument by atheists for rejecting God - that IF He did exist, that He must be a cruel God to allow famine, disease and atrocities to be committed.

Famine and disease occur naturally and there is usually nothing we can do as humans except wait for it pass. So how is this somehow the fault of humanity?

Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
Why did Jesus say this as they were murdering Him? Because God's plan was to fulfill His promises in scripture, and in order to have it accomplished, those calling for His murder had no inkling that God had blinded them to fulfill HIS PLAN FOR HUMANITY. Anyone who is called to Christ, encounters this reality. We see it today as elite groups are doing wicked and evil things to this world, from manipulating beliefs, creating wars, destroying the image of Jesus in the minds of millions of the descendants of the people Israel, yet they are accomplishing God's Will. Many of us, as we are persecuted for our Faith, will be led by the Holy Spirit to forgive them for they "know not what they do".

See this is why I can't take religious people seriously. You believe god created sinful creatures, sent his son to save the creatures, then had the creatures kill his son, so that his son could save the creatures. This makes no sense. If god is all powerful why not just get rid of the middle man and create us without sin and without the need to be saved?

Originally posted by xZodiacx
My point here is that God is loving. He does make sense and we should not blame him for the things that we have done to this World. I hate to break it to ya, but it is our fault people.

I'm not sure what "god" you're talking about but if it's the same as the abrahamitic "god" then he's anything but loving.

What loving "god" condones genocide? What loving "god" commands a father to sacrifice his own son?

If I believed in this stuff I would say you're playing for the other team.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal

Originally posted by WhoKnows100

If god is all powerful why not just get rid of the middle man and create us without sin and without the need to be saved?

He did create us without sin; Adam and Eve.

Then Lucifer stabbed his boss in the back.

We all know what happens to workers who stab their bosses in the back; they get FIRED for all eternity

reply to post by de Thor


Yes I agree with a lot of this, but like stated in the revisions, there is always going to be something that is inconsistent. Today's theologies declare good and evil as the two main forces in this World. If it is impossible to have good without evil than things would be just dandy, but if there was no evil then we would not be allowed to make our own decisions. I feel as if God is to complicated for us to understand because He is very simplistic. We look for more and more and more truths that speak to us and we complicate Him more than we should

reply to post by WhoKnows100


Yes, but think about this. What if death was not a bad thing? Jesus wholeheartedly accepted his death. He understood that he would be okay if he died. To me, death is in a way the birth of the soul.

This quote by Eckhart Tolle speaks volumes to me: "Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die and find that there is no death."

I feel like this is what Jesus accomplished. He was able to die before he died. He lived unconsciously and loved all, even those who were killing him and stoning him.

Thank you for your input and going more in depth. You understand a lot of what I have to say and I appreciate that.

reply to post by Taz2122


God is not condoning any of this. We are the ones that are doing it. You're stating arguments that I already addressed in the OP.