Real Socialists. The Friends Of The Conservatives.

Originally posted by Germanicus

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Germanicus

 

A question.

Wht do you consider, "freedom'?

Any type of government that incorporates a socialistic approach (in my opinion) restricts freedom for the individual.

Another question.

Do you think people have too much freedom?

People can and will be irresponsible. People who do not embrace personal responsibility tend to run towards a central authority to reduce their burden of responsibility.

If you didnt mean guns.

My idea of freedom is a state that cares about its people. A state that protects its people. A state that provides for its people. a state that works for its people. A state that is owned by its people.

Selling off State assets and privatizing/Americanizing everything like whats happened in Australia since the 80's is the opposite of freedom for me. They are making us slaves of the corporatist and beholden just like Americans.

edit on 13-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)

I find it odd that you would classify the state as caring and corporations as slave-owners.

In America, there is a distict difference to the rest of the world. And that is the freedom to fail. Having that particular freedom enhances the personal responsibility of the individual. It lessens the dependance to the state and Makes success that much more to value.

reply to post by beezzer

In America, there is a distict difference to the rest of the world. And that is the freedom to fail.

I agree. It is very different. The freedom to fail is not a freedom I would value.

I think every person has value. One of the first things that brought me toward thinking socialist was an essay on socialism written by Oscar Wilde. It is about freedom and individuality. It is about how socialism can offer that.

Its also about how the poor should be seated at the board. This is one of my favourite parts.

Charity they feel to be a ridiculously inadequate mode of partial restitution, or a sentimental dole, usually accompanied by some impertinent attempt on the part of the sentimentalist to tyrannise over their private lives. Why should they be grateful for the crumbs that fall from the rich man’s table? They should be seated at the board, and are beginning to know it.

www.marxists.org...
I think many Americans are biginning to know it.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
Nope,we have lots of guns we aren't afraid of a thing......like dead Nazis

We like shooting bullets at paper with extreme skill and accuracy.We like pushing the limits of that skill to surpass the other guy and black guns look cool too.Its a way of "keeping up with the Joneses"a method of socio cultural competition amongst "Alphas"Also it scares the hell out of the left how many we have.

edit on 14-5-2012 by cavtrooper7 because: misspell

hahaha

excellent post!

I am a huge fan of guns too! I think everyone should be an expert with them, people tend to be more respectful coming into your life that way

reply to post by Germanicus

So you would endorse the freedom to succeed yet not have the freedom to fail.

That'd make any success pale in comparrison. It's a shallow freedom, a false freedom. It is the "state" allowing success at the discretion of the "state".

A poor reflection of freedom, at best.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Germanicus

 

So you would endorse the freedom to succeed yet not have the freedom to fail.

That'd make any success pale in comparrison. It's a shallow freedom, a false freedom. It is the "state" allowing success at the discretion of the "state".

A poor reflection of freedom, at best.

I do not think that freedom and liberty equate to celebration of demonic greed. When you see guys making 22 million dollars for ripping people off.it seems off kilter dont you think? Like the news right now in America. And that guy loses so much money they made need more taxpayer money to save things it off kilter.

On the other end America has millions living in poverty. It makes me sick. Thats not freedom. people like you allow this situation to continue.

Hitler treated undesirables better than America treats its poor. You treat them like unwanted animals. Its disturbing. Its like some of you want the 'American Dream' so you cheer for those on MTV Cribs that contribute nothing of real value or worth. Its sick. America is a disease.

reply to post by Germanicus
So our idea of freedom is a disease?

I guess it would appear that way to someone raised in a cradle to grave society where they are brain-washed at an early age that government is caring and compassionate.

You enjoy your "freedom", I'll enjoy mine.

Kick out America, please! Give us the boot! Personally, I don't like the fact that we are anywhere.

What happens when bailouts are given and there is no chance to fail?
Like what happened in america. what does that mean?

Originally posted by Bixxi3
What happens when bailouts are given and there is no chance to fail?
Like what happened in america. what does that mean?

That means that they (banks, financial institutions) will never correct, will never adjust.

If they don't have the oppourtunity to fail, then they never change.

reply to post by beezzer

So our idea of freedom is a disease?

Yes.

Not all Americans agree with you though do they? Less and less by the day.

Edit- Also,take a look at how the Founding Fathers treated corporatists. You idea of 'freedom' is some idiotic retardation of what the Founding Fathers considered to be 'freedom'. Learn your history.


Edit- People like me are getting ready to go to war with people like you. You are a traitor to the human race. You are the enemy. You are a monster. I mean no offence by that but that is growing popular opinion. Not just around the world but within your once great country.

Originally posted by Bixxi3
What happens when bailouts are given and there is no chance to fail?
Like what happened in america. what does that mean?

Exactly. These traitors are more interested in spitting on the poor than adressing corporate welfare.

Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by beezzer

 

So our idea of freedom is a disease?

Yes.

Not all Americans agree with you though do they? Less and less by the day.

Edit- Also,take a look at how the Founding Fathers treated corporatists. You idea of 'freedom' is some idiotic retardation of what the Founding Fathers considered to be 'freedom'. Learn your history.

edit on 14-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)

Edit- People like me are getting ready to go to war with people like you. You are a traitor to the human race. You are the enemy. You are a monster. I mean no offence by that but that is growing popular opinion. Not just around the world but within your once great country.

edit on 14-5-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)

I had to star that response just for the drama alone.!

reply to post by beezzer


Ha!

I felt bad after I wrote that.

I can tell you are a nice guy.

Sides will be taken though.

I have always been a life-long socialist and when I was young I too was filled with a passion for a better society
( this was during the Thatcher years ).
However, now I am old and cynical I discovered that true socialism does not really allow for human nature - that there will always be some people more equal than others and that greed plays a natural part of that nature.

The old political socialists that I knew turned out to be no more than champagne socialists - Neil Kinnock for instance - Robber Baron of Europe with all of his family on board the Brussels gravy train.
We have just had years of a labour government under Tony Blair/Gordon Brown and they became more right wing than Thatcher ever was, something I would have never have thought possible.

And here we are today with a corporate government - politics for business and nobody even voted them in!
Not many politicians have ever had a 'real job' - politics has become a very lucrative career with excellent post-term prospects and fabulous networking oportunities, not to mention the endless perks - expenses, second homes etc. Indeeed politicians are now so far removed from the electorate that I am reminded of the Roman emperor that had a slave ride with him whispering 'remember you are only a mortal ' ( or something like that ).

Hey ho - pass the sherry Deirdre.

The friends of real conservatives.

reply to post by Germanicus

My opinion on guns is that I would rather have a fist fight. If someone is so much of a coward that they would shoot me then shame on them. Guns are for cowards at the end of the day.

Really? So what exactly is cowardly about using a gun for defense? Going into a fist fight is not an act of bravery at all. It is an act of IDIOCY, no offense.
Nothing cowardly about using an overwhelming force to repel an attack.


As for the thread topic, maybe you are really a non-ideologue? Dont worry, all the smart people are..

Originally posted by Germanicus

I dont think there have been any true socialist governments that have existed really. I like Libertarian Socialism but I have moved on. I dont see it as realistic.

That's a lie and it is the same excuse that EVERY branch of socialist out there claims just so HIS/HER vision of socialism can be tried... but the fact is they ALL lead to dictatorship...

Originally posted by Germanicus
Edit- I have not read that much about Che to be honest.

Of course you haven't, just like the mayority if not all socialist/communists out there who out of ignorance side with a man who was nothing more than an assassin. He was castro's number one executioner.

Originally posted by Germanicus
Fidel Castro is a great man in my opinion though.

fidel castro a great man?... Really?... and pray tell me how exactly do you know him?...

I was born , raised for part of my life and experienced socialism/communism in Cuba. castro, and all his socialists/communists are nothing more than thugs and murderers...

Originally posted by Germanicus
Edit- I have seen a heck of alot of Che t-shirts though

And you think that makes/made che a good man?... Che was a doctor who used his medical skills to torture people. If there was anyone influential in aneighborhood who was against the communist party castro would send che guevara among others to visit these Cubans who would dare speak up against the communist dictatorship.

Che would bring out the entire family, and in front of everyone he would shoot in the head whoever would dare speak against the communist party and the revolution... But I guess that's the kind of idol you and your kind like...

Originally posted by Germanicus
I like his quote about making the apple drop.

Really?... Did you like che's quotes for example to the UN for example?...

"To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary. These procedures are an archaic bourgeois detail. This is a revolution!

www.theaustralian.com.au...

To a real socialist/communist there is "no need for trials, or juries... The "revolutionary conviction" is all that is needed to EXECUTE ANYONE... Great idols and humanitarians huh?...

The real story of Ernesto Guevara's place in history, and the deaths for which he was responsible, is told by Cuban journalist Luis Ortega, who knew Guevara personally, in his book Yo Soy El Che, by Daniel James in Che Guevara: A Biography and by Armando M. Lago, author of the soon to be released Cuba: The Human Cost of Social Revolutions.

Lago lists by name fourteen people personally murdered by Guevara while fighting in the Sierra Madre as a part of Fidel Castro's 1956-57 guerilla struggles to seize power in Cuba. Once in power, Guevara became one of the central figures of Castro's dictatorship with 10 confirmed ordered executions in Santa Clara in 1959 and another 156 at La Cabana Fortress Prison. He was also responsible for several thousand more during the first years of the revolution. Guevara was also responsible for those killed in the guerrilla uprisings he sponsored in Latin America, and in which he participated after he had left Cuba. No one knows how many people Guevara personally killed, ordered killed, or who died as a result of his actions. Lago believes the number for Cuba alone is 4,000.

It is said that Guevara was proud of shooting his enemies in the back of the head. He was also vocal in his hatred, and candid in his use of hate as a driving force. "Hatred is an element in the struggle," he said, "unbending hatred for the enemy which pushes a human being beyond his natural limitations…." "A people without hate cannot triumph against the adversary." During the Cuban missile crisis Guevara pushed for war, since a nuclear holocaust, he believed, would purge the world of evil and make way for the rise of a new and better order.

Excerpted from.
www.claremont.org...

Let's also see who inspired Che.

I have sworn before a picture of our old, much lamented comrade Stalin [who had died in March] that I will not rest until I see these capitalist octopuses annihilated

www.workersliberty.org...

From a letter that Che wrote to his aunt in San Jose.
Excerpted from.
rsmforum.proboards23.com...

Perhaps you also think that Stalin was another "revolutionary hero" huh?....