Monsanto's Roundup: why?

This is not really what I expected to be putting forth for my first thread here. This will seem kind of ho-hum at first glance, but I think it could illustrate some important issues about dangerous chemicals (and the shady corporations that patent and widely distribute them).

Four years ago, I began living in a small house here in Kilmarnock, Virginia. I moved up here from Charlotte to be near my parents, who are in great health but in their early 70s. I pay my mortgage to mom, but no cushy family deal; it's a real mortgage! Anyway, I take a lot of my mom and dad's advice when it comes to lawn care, since they have more experience than me. They had the idea of killing the entire front lawn and replanting it with better grass. So, I complied. I imagine this was done with good ol' Monsanto's Roundup, the most popular wide-spectrum herbicide. It certainly worked! Of course, the lawn was dead, brown, and ugly until the new grass came in, but now I have the best front lawn in the neighborhood!

I didn't think too much of this, though I am no fan of Monsanto and a bit scared of that Glyphosate stuff in Roundup, until an interesting thing happened a few days ago. I have a birdbath in the back, and while I was about to fill it up, realized that it really needed a good cleaning. I decided to use some baking soda and vinegar, since I have a good supply of both, and I thought it would be a harmless thing to use. It was also fun to watch it foam up like it does! I gave that birdbath a good scrubbing, and then tilted the baking soda/white vinegar mixture onto the grass beside the birdbath, rinsed, and filled the bath with fresh water. Thought nothing of it for a couple days.

The next time I went out to fill the birdbath, I saw a very curious thing: The grass where I had dumped the soda and vinegar was just as dead as the lawn treated with Roundup, and had gotten that way, if anything, faster. It ain't coming back. The entire area is dead, for a couple feet, but the grass that didn't get directly soaked is fine.

This got me to thinking: if baking soda and vinegar does the same thing as Roundup, why do we use Roundup? Is it perhaps because Monsanto can't patent a mixture of baking soda and vinegar like they did the Glyphosate molecule? Would you rather I doused you with a foaming mixture of baking soda and vinegar, or a bucket of Roundup? Sure, you are a human, not a lawn. It would certainly be annoying to be doused with the soda and vinegar, but it wouldn't hurt you. Roundup might.

Just something to think about...

reply to post by godspetrat


I've tried vinegar on weeds and never had much success. Never tried a combo of vinegar and soda, but might try an experiment with it.

I just heard today that Poland booted Monsanto the heck out of their country's maize fields and was thinking how I never want to hear another Polish joke. The joke is on us gullible muricans now, maybe it always was.

whatreallyhappened.com...

reply to post by godspetrat


Are you sure you didnt wash any unsuspecting roundup off the birdbath and onto the lawn?

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by godspetrat

 

I've tried vinegar on weeds and never had much success. Never tried a combo of vinegar and soda, but might try an experiment with it.

I just heard today that Poland booted Monsanto the heck out of their country's maize fields and was thinking how I never want to hear another Polish joke. The joke is on us gullible muricans now, maybe it always was.

whatreallyhappened.com...

I'll have to look into what exactly the mixing of baking soda and vinegar produces. I'm no chemist, but what struck me is how completely it killed the grass, just like the Roundup. Vinegar is acidic by itself. It could cause a plant problems. So could peeing on a potted plant. (I've never had a plant in a pot that I hated that much; just heard once that you can kill a plant this way!)

Pee on your lawn, and it would be fine. Horses and cows everywhere have tested that hypothesis! I think what killed the grass by the birdbath was the concentration, unless adding the soda to the vinegar is the key.

The point is not so much vinegar and baking soda in itself, but that there may be ways of accomplishing similar results with less harmful chemicals.

reply to post by Burnittotheground


Heh. Sure about that! The front, not the back was treated with Roundup. The only other stuff in the backyard birdbath other than water (and of course the baking soda and vinegar) was the crud that built up from not cleaning it enough. I have a spray bottle of Roundup, but it has only been used occasionally for poison ivy around the shed.

reply to post by godspetrat


Well, I mixed up a batch of your combo (the way I tend to cook ~ a dash of this and a dab of that, lol) and I will report back if it killed the god awful weeds I just poured it over.

reply to post by godspetrat


That's really interesting...going to have to attempt this experiment as well...maybe on my neighbors lawn though, just in case.

Originally posted by Burnittotheground
reply to post by godspetrat

 

That's really interesting...going to have to attempt this experiment as well...maybe on my neighbors lawn though, just in case.

Yes, you get a LOL for that! I am interested in experiments with this mixture. Keep in mind that the patch of grass that was killed in my birdbath "experiment" was thoroughly doused with lots of the baking soda and vinegar mixture.

I would really love to hear from someone who knows something about chemistry and/or botany as to why the inadvertent experiment worked, and also some thoughts of a general nature as to why we use potentially dangerous products like Roundup if there is even the possibility that harmless household items could accomplish the same result...

The whole purpose of Monsanto using roundup is because they have genetically modified the crops to be resistant to roundup. They have not genetically modified the crops to be resistant to baking soda and vinegar.

www.apple-cider-vinegar-benefits.com...

Well, seems combining these two items produces carbonic acid, which quickly disappears and is replaced by CO2 and H2O. Therefore, I guess the herbicidal tendencies are caused by throwing off the PH level, or perhaps by the soaking itself with this particular mixture interrupting metabolism somehow? Again, I'm no chemist or scientist.

Originally posted by libertytoall
They have not genetically modified the crops to be resistant to baking soda and vinegar.

edit on 11-5-2012 by libertytoall because: (no reason given)

Nor could they, I assume.

Well, my scientifically inclined brother has answered this question for me in an e-mail, and these are his words, not mine:

Hey! Great (1st) post -glad you copied me on it! I found two things that may be of interest, an article in the journal "Weed Technology" on vinegar-as-herbicide and a discussion thread on the Univ. of BC Botanical Garden website (www.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca...).


It seems that vinegar is the primary weed-killing ingredient, while the salty nature of baking soda likely will act to keep grass and weeds from growing back-but excessive salt in soils is a bigger problem than weeds! It's an awesome green way of weed control, but the big problem is specificity-how do apply the vinegar at the right time to kill pesky weeds, but avoid doing harm to you crop. This is essentially why the use of Roundup/glyphosate is so widespread in agriculture! As for its residential (over)use, at least it's better than the chemicals we used to The other issue with using vinegar appears to be cost-especially with high acid vinegars-about $25/hectare for Roundup vs. $400/ha for vinegar!!

"Jimweed" makes an interesting point in his UBC post-that Roundup is essentially organic and relatively harmless. As much as I hate Monsanto, I would have to agree with this, since from all the literature I have read on the safety of glyphosate (which is a lot), there is very little evidence for toxicity to anything but plants. Glyphosate breaks down quickly and does not bioaccumulate. The primary danger, however, is when it is washed into ponds and streams soon after application-kills off all the beneficial algae! Also, there are a growing number of weed species that are becoming resistant to glyphosate-take that anti-evolutionists! Again, not a fan of Roundup, but it's a whole lot better than other high-use herbicides out there like Atrazine, Simazine, Metribuzin, Bromacil, etc., etc. That said, Monsanto is still the devil.