Where were all those who were healed, and those who had seen miracles?

I was thinking on how humans treat each other so badly, mainly because of different beliefs. I thought about those who were burned and drowned as witches. I even thought about the crucifixion of Jesus and how people could have treated another human being that way. And then another thought occurred to me:

In the N.T., there are many stories about Jesus performing miracles. He raised people from the dead, he healed diseases, he healed the maimed and cripple, he changed water to wine, he multiplied fish and bread to feed thousands, he walked on water, he calmed seas, god even told many people verbally that this was his son in whom he was well pleased, he did so many things to show his power and thousands of people witnessed it.

Now, my question is, where were all these people during his trial and crucifixion? Why did they not put a stop to it? It doesn't make any sense. You would think that those thousands of people that saw him work in the power of god would take up for him, or at least come forth and give their testimony. Not a single one did?

If you take the gospel accounts as historical, they show that even the Apostles who were with Christ everyday were scared big time when the trial and crucifixion were going down. Peter is the prime example, denying even knowing Him. I just couldn't imagine people who had a one time encounter with Jesus standing up for Him and risking their own necks.

Originally posted by micmerci
If you take the gospel accounts as historical, they show that even the Apostles who were with Christ everyday were scared big time when the trial and crucifixion were going down. Peter is the prime example, denying even knowing Him. I just couldn't imagine people who had a one time encounter with Jesus standing up for Him and risking their own necks.

Why not? Didn't they witness the power of god? Those who were raised from the dead didn't think Jesus couldn't raise them from the dead again? Those who were maimed didn't think Jesus could heal them again?

Yes, you are right, the disciples did scatter like roaches when the light is turned on. Something doesn't make sense about that. You know what I mean?

reply to post by Hydroman

Now, my question is, where were all these people during his trial and crucifixion? Why did they not put a stop to it? It doesn't make any sense. You would think that those thousands of people that saw him work in the power of god would take up for him, or at least come forth and give their testimony. Not a single one did?

I mentioned this in another thread, what is more surprising is the lack of documentation. The lack of a "historical Jesus" record, so-to-speak.

For a public figure that supposedly had followers and was actively campaigning, it's hard to find much outside of biblical text.

reply to post by Hydroman


I think those people were just waiting for a savior when they happened upon Jesus. Then when He was caught and crucified, they saw it as a failure and had their doubts. I don't think anyone would risk their lives on just a possibility. After the resurrection, the cowardly apostles were emboldened and began their ministries. This one fact is why I believe as I do. All the Apostles gave their lives for their beliefs- and like I said no one does that unless its for a sure thing.

Originally posted by micmerci
All the Apostles gave their lives for their beliefs- and like I said no one does that unless its for a sure thing.

Yes they do, all the time. Heard of the Heaven's Gates Cult? Muslims do it. Yes, even Christians have.

Originally posted by micmerci
I think those people were just waiting for a savior when they happened upon Jesus. Then when He was caught and crucified, they saw it as a failure and had their doubts. I don't think anyone would risk their lives on just a possibility.

It wasn't just a possibility. They saw these things! They heard god speak from the heavens saying that this was his son! Where were these people? Did they all think they had a mass auditory hallucination? What about those were dead and resurrected? What were they afraid of, didn't they think that Jesus could take care of them? The disciples saw these things too. What was wrong with them? Why would "Jesus resurrecting" do anything different than all the other miracles they saw him do?

Damn! This made me think of something else. If these disciples lived with him, saw all these things that Jesus did, but in the end did not stick up for him but instead turned tail and ran in disbelief.....why does this god expect us to believe in him without ever seeing him!!!! But, we will still be punished in fire forever! It doesn't make sense! How can this god do this to us!

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by micmerci
I think those people were just waiting for a savior when they happened upon Jesus. Then when He was caught and crucified, they saw it as a failure and had their doubts. I don't think anyone would risk their lives on just a possibility.

It wasn't just a possibility. They saw these things! They heard god speak from the heavens saying that this was his son! Where were these people? Did they all think they had a mass auditory hallucination? What about those were dead and resurrected? What were they afraid of, didn't they think that Jesus could take care of them? The disciples saw these things too. What was wrong with them? Why would "Jesus resurrecting" do anything different than all the other miracles they saw him do?

edit on 8-5-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

What was wrong with them is that they were witnessing the "Messiah" getting beat and hung on a cross and not doing anything about it. That certainly would appear as a failure if you ask me. I think they were afraid of the Romans who were a bit brutal in their punishment techniques. And as for Jesus resurrecting, don't you think that would remove the doubt from their minds?

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by micmerci
I think those people were just waiting for a savior when they happened upon Jesus. Then when He was caught and crucified, they saw it as a failure and had their doubts. I don't think anyone would risk their lives on just a possibility.

It wasn't just a possibility. They saw these things! They heard god speak from the heavens saying that this was his son! Where were these people? Did they all think they had a mass auditory hallucination? What about those were dead and resurrected? What were they afraid of, didn't they think that Jesus could take care of them? The disciples saw these things too. What was wrong with them? Why would "Jesus resurrecting" do anything different than all the other miracles they saw him do?

Damn! This made me think of something else. If these disciples lived with him, saw all these things that Jesus did, but in the end did not stick up for him but instead turned tail and ran in disbelief.....why does this god expect us to believe in him without ever seeing him!!!! But, we will still be punished in fire forever! It doesn't make sense! How can this god do this to us!

edit on 8-5-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

That is the very reason that scripture says that blessed are those who do not see yet believe. Because it is so much more difficult to do.

Originally posted by micmerci
What was wrong with them is that they were witnessing the "Messiah" getting beat and hung on a cross and not doing anything about it. That certainly would appear as a failure if you ask me. I think they were afraid of the Romans who were a bit brutal in their punishment techniques. And as for Jesus resurrecting, don't you think that would remove the doubt from their minds?

No sir! I'm talking about BEFORE he was beaten. I'm talking about the trial. Where were these people during that time? Why didn't they speak out? Remember, they chose to free Barabas, not Jesus.

Why would the resurrection remove doubt from their minds when they saw him resurrect people already?

Originally posted by micmerci
That is the very reason that scripture says that blessed are those who do not see yet believe. Because it is so much more difficult to do.

You didn't answer the question. Also, I don't care about being blessed. That has NO bearing on my search for truth. Now, how does this god expect us to believe, blessed or not, when we haven't seen him....and the disciples LIVED with him and SAW these things, yet disblelieved in the end? It doesn't make any sense! Or does it make sense to you? If so, please explain.

reply to post by Hydroman


As you may be aware, there were others going around doing"miracles" in Jesus' day but none of them made it past the grave.

reply to post by Hydroman


And you guys believe that all of this happened about 4000 years ago? you guys understand you are talking about something that is in a book that first of all is a collection of stories that were combined by a council, then taken through history, re-written, translated hundreds of times and altered extensively and you want to try and discuss about its small details and form judgment of others based on it? remember that we are here to deny ignorance not embrace it, believing in god is great but blindly following a book seems to be the epitome of ignorance, which does not reflect on you as a person but on the base of your beliefs.

Originally posted by micmerci
As you may be aware, there were others going around doing"miracles" in Jesus' day but none of them made it past the grave.

Ok, let's say I give you that. How does this god expect us to believe without seeing when the disciples did see and did not believe? Yet, when we don't believe, we are punished forever in fire?

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by micmerci
That is the very reason that scripture says that blessed are those who do not see yet believe. Because it is so much more difficult to do.

You didn't answer the question. Also, I don't care about being blessed. That has NO bearing on my search for truth. Now, how does this god expect us to believe, blessed or not, when we haven't seen him....and the disciples LIVED with him and SAW these things, yet disblelieved in the end? It doesn't make any sense! Or does it make sense to you? If so, please explain.

It makes sense to me because I buy into the whole story. I don't want to turn this into bible-thumping or preaching because I'm not like that. I can respect that you don't buy into it. Live and let live I say.

Originally posted by CesarO
And you guys believe that all of this happened about 4000 years ago?

No, they believe it was 2000 years ago...well at least the incident I'm talking about.

Originally posted by CesarO
you guys understand you are talking about something that is in a book that first of all is a collection of stories that were combined by a council, then taken through history, re-written, translated hundreds of times and altered extensively

Sure, I do.

Originally posted by CesarO
and you want to try and discuss about its small details and form judgment of others based on it? remember that we are here to deny ignorance not embrace it, believing in god is great but blindly following a book seems to be the epitome of ignorance, which does not reflect on you as a person but on the base of your beliefs.

What's wrong with trying to make people think?

Originally posted by micmerci
It makes sense to me because I buy into the whole story. I don't want to turn this into bible-thumping or preaching because I'm not like that. I can respect that you don't buy into it. Live and let live I say.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by CesarO
reply to post by Hydroman

 

And you guys believe that all of this happened about 4000 years ago? you guys understand you are talking about something that is in a book that first of all is a collection of stories that were combined by a council, then taken through history, re-written, translated hundreds of times and altered extensively and you want to try and discuss about its small details and form judgment of others based on it? remember that we are here to deny ignorance not embrace it, believing in god is great but blindly following a book seems to be the epitome of ignorance, which does not reflect on you as a person but on the base of your beliefs.

Even though Hydro and I are on opposing sides, I don't think either of us do anything blindly. That"book" has been debated by scholars for centuries, maybe they should have consulted you for answers

reply to post by micmerci


Not at all i know a lot less than you or hydro about the bible, just trying to remind you that you are arguing over a book which its content might not be what it was originally intended to be.

Originally posted by Hydroman
In the N.T., there are many stories about Jesus performing miracles. He raised people from the dead, he healed diseases, he healed the maimed and cripple, he changed water to wine, he multiplied fish and bread to feed thousands, he walked on water, he calmed seas, god even told many people verbally that this was his son in whom he was well pleased, he did so many things to show his power and thousands of people witnessed it.

Now, my question is, where were all these people during his trial and crucifixion? Why did they not put a stop to it? It doesn't make any sense. You would think that those thousands of people that saw him work in the power of god would take up for him, or at least come forth and give their testimony. Not a single one did?

Good question OP. But remember, thousands of people laid down their lives for giving their testimony of Christ in the 1st century. My personal opinion is that these people were afraid to stand up for his truths while he was still just a man. Beyond connecting with people from all walks of life in divine ways, Jesus was a threat to the establishment of the time. I'm not speaking so much about the Romans who crucified him as I am about Pharisaical Judaism, a result of which was the stoning of the prostitute, conspiracy to kill Jesus, etc. Compared to this system Christ was an anarchist.

Beyond that, his disciples DID stand up for him when the Romans came to arrest him. Jesus stopped them from coming forward in order to give witness to what he was about to do for the whole world.

"Jesus fully realized all that was going to happen to him, so he stepped forward to meet them. “Who are you looking for?” he asked.

5 “Jesus the Nazarene,” they replied.

“I Am he,” Jesus said. (Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them.) 6 As Jesus said “I Am he,” they all drew back and fell to the ground! 7 Once more he asked them, “Who are you looking for?”

And again they replied, “Jesus the Nazarene.”

8 “I told you that I Am he,” Jesus said. “And since I am the one you want, let these others go.” 9 He did this to fulfill his own statement: “I did not lose a single one of those you have given me.”

10 Then Simon Peter drew a sword and slashed off the right ear of Malchus, the high priest’s slave. 11 But Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword back into its sheath. Shall I not drink from the cup of suffering the Father has given me?” -John 18 4-11 (NLT)