Skeptics and debunkers are very important for the Alien/UFO field

One thing that I have rediscovered on visiting this and other UFO related forums is that Skeptics, and respectful debunkers form the backbone of the debate. Without them, there are just too many cultist believers, too many charlatans, and just too many fantastic, crazy ideas floating around. Without criticism, all the good research and genuine cases will be comprehensively lost under the rubble of egoistic believers, every new person claiming to have had contact, and professional charlatans, who make money off people's genuine curiosity, and faith. (Faith in good/intelligence beyond the humanity and the human Gods < --- This is an important reason behind many humans' interest in the Alien/UFO field).

So, as long as they do not troll and are not obnoxious, skeptics should be treated as a respectful part of the UFO research. Willingness to accept and understand criticism is a hallmark of any genuinely exploratory, out of the mainstream idea (scientific fields, spiritual explorations, individuals, ideologies etc.).

Every case needs to be thoroughly investigated, every fantastic claim thoroughly analyzed and debunked appropriately, or pretty soon, you will just have a mess of random imaginations, and boring/egoistical stories from people's dreams.
More skepticism exists here than many political forums, and it should be maintained that way.

I know that most of the rational supporters here already agree with this. I am just trying to reaffirm an important idea, which is often missed by the passionate followers of new fields.

reply to post by mcrath2012


As a skeptic, am I allowed to be skeptical about this post?

Joking and making fun of myself aside, thank you.
Any system without checks and balances will run away of it's own accord into and down all sorts of rabbit holes. In the arena of the UFOlogy circus, that holds even true despite skepticism.

In some cases, me thinks skepticism has a reverse psychology effect with the more delusional sorts, under the conception that if someone is trying to 'debunk it' it MUST be true!

I agree OP its how I learned to look @ ufo as not just space craft unidentified but also as gov. black craft ect. It took bouncing the ideas back and forth between skeptics and debunkers for it to begin to click.

We need to differentiate between skeptics and trolls.

First thread I ever posted got me quite angry, I didnt know trolls existed, took me about ten minutes to realise they did.
But skeptics as you say should be welcomed. Chadwickus gets a lot of stick from people, me included at first, but now I look forward to his posts as he's very good at digging up the info.

Just keep out of my threads chad !!

I expect he'll be along soon

Skeptics and debunkers are very important for the Alien/UFO field

I can appreciate healthy skepticism. An open mind doesn't buy the first thing it sees. My problem lies with the dedicated denier who has no other purpose than to ridicule and shout down anyone who crosses their personal line.

Many in the paranormal field... including UFOs, came here from other endeavors and have other interests. But the hallmark denier has no other field... they have dedicated themselves to negatively affecting others. If one needs mention, Penn Jillette comes to mind. At one time a very creative soul, when his (and Teller's) stage show began to wane, he chose to spend his time deriding the beliefs of others for no other reason than to resurrect his lost fame.

Skepticism is good. It keeps us from stepping in the cow pies of life and possibility. But when we slam the door on the fingers of possibility, we become less than a skeptic and more than ignorant.

Skeptic weighing in.

I've always been hesitant about coming to this topic, even though it's always been a field that interested me and was the reason I initially started lurking here 10 years ago, because I feel I just don't have the knowledge about it all to "properly de-debunk". I guess I feel that if I tell people I'm a skeptic about something without having anything to back that up besides my opinion, I'll come across as a troll.

Most of the headlines I see on the topics page are along the lines of "Look at this video....WOW " Most of those are easily explained away and I just don't have the time to waste on videos of the night sky. Maybe if people stepped up the game a bit with topics about reverse engineering and such, topics that are more "down to earth", more people would be inclined to join in.

Anyway, the OP sounded like a cry for help. If I see a headline that's even remotely related to something I feel I can comment on without coming across as an a-hole, I'll be glad to help populate the thread.

I'm a total Non-Skeptic
However, I agree with you. In this forum more than most, we need skeptics and more importantly, good debunkers.
I don't particularly like trolls but every now and then, one or two is ok. If for nothing else a bit of humor.
Seriously like Druscilla said, "Any system without checks and balances will run away..."
That's true.
I'm not a skeptic, but when I start a thread I prefer to have one or two around. It adds a sense of reality in a subject that, without the skeptic debunker, would seem like a total circus on wheels. Plus, some times people need to be educated a bit and who better to do that.....?
I guess I wanna thank all the skeptics who have challenged me. Thank you skeptic debunkers you are an appreciated necessity!

TXML

"Skepticism is good. It keeps us from stepping in the cow pies of life and possibility. But when we slam the door on the fingers of possibility, we become less than a skeptic and more than ignorant."

-ReDoubt
Brilliant!!!

Each of that belief/skepticism in too much quantity is harmful and counter-productive

Most people dont even realize what a skeptic really is. A skeptic is someone who is looking for the truth and does it by questioning all the evidence. Being a skeptic does not automatically mean you have an agenda. You can be a skeptic AND believe in aliens and flying saucers etc.

So being a skeptic just means you are going to do everything you can not to be fooled or mistaken. Being a skeptic is about staying out of denial even if you want something to be true. I believe there might be something out there but i dont let that cloud my judgment when looking into cases.

Non skeptics shouldn't even get into the debate because without critical thinking they bring nothing to the table.

reply to post by PhoenixOD

A skeptic is someone who is looking for the truth and does it by questioning all the evidence

No.
Any one can look at and question all the evidence. A skeptic doubts all the evidence.

Definition of SKEPTICISM
1 : an attitude of doubt or a disposition to incredulity either in general or toward a particular object
2 a : the doctrine that true knowledge or knowledge in a particular area is uncertain

You can be a skeptic AND believe in aliens and flying saucers etc.

That's true. I don't go around saying all videos and reports are real and factual. I look at things objectively, especially on the internet.

I am looking for the truth and I'm questioning all the evidence.
I am not skeptical (I do not doubt aliens exist and are visiting us). We are in the same boat together you just feel smarter saying you're a skeptic and I feel smart for saying I'm not, but our definitions of the word aren't even the same (clearly) I would define you as objective or extremely so. You believe in aliens, yes? Not believing every youtube vid that comes along is a good thing. It doesn't make you a skeptic, as in doubting it all.

TXML


Maybe I miss understood the OP and the replies that followed. If so, my fault.

Originally posted by mcrath2012

One thing that I have rediscovered on visiting this and other UFO related forums is that Skeptics, and respectful debunkers form the backbone of the debate. Without them, there are just too many cultist believers, too many charlatans, and just too many fantastic, crazy ideas floating around. Without criticism, all the good research and genuine cases will be comprehensively lost under the rubble of egoistic believers..

Mcrath, I think there are charlatans (and even egoistic believers) on either side of the UFO debate mate but I do know what you mean about the importance of genuine, open minded skepticism.

There's a relevant link below listing some of the attributes so let's hope some of the more unexplained and truly intriguing UFO cases actually start getting some attention.

True skeptics / open-minded skeptics


*Has honest doubt and questions all beliefs, including their own

*Seeks the truth, considers it the highest aim

*Seeks open inquiry and investigation of both sides

*Is nonjudgmental, doesn't jump to rash conclusions

*Weighs evidence on all sides

*Asks exploratory questions about new things to try to understand them

*Acknowledges valid convincing evidence

*Possesses solid sharp common sense

*Is able to adapt and update their paradigms to new evidence

Pseudo-skeptics / closed-minded skeptics

*Automatically dismisses and denies all claims that contradict materialism and orthodoxy

*Is not interested in truth, evidence or facts, only in defending orthodoxy and the status quo

*Ignores anything that doesn't fit their a priori beliefs and assumptions

*Scoffs and ridicules their targets instead of providing solid arguments and giving honest consideration

*Has a know-it-all-attitude, never asks questions about things they don't understand, never admits that they don't know something

*Insists that everything unknown and unexplained must have a conventional materialistic explanation

*Is judgmental and quick to draw conclusions about things they know little or nothing about

*Uses semantics and word games with their own rules of logic to try to win arguments

*Is unable to adapt and update their paradigms to new evidence

Link

Cheers.

Its not that skeptics automatically think that all evidence is incorrect its just that they dont automatically think it is true. They use critical thinking to evaluate the evidence.

Skepticism or scepticism (see spelling differences) has many definitions, but generally refers to any questioning attitude towards knowledge, facts, or opinions/beliefs stated as facts, or doubt regarding claims that are taken for granted elsewhere.

Source

A non skeptic is someone who just believes everything they are told or especially if it fits with their own personal beliefs. So a skeptic is more likely to get to the truth while a non-skeptic is statistically more likely to be mistaken or fooled.

reply to post by PhoenixOD
So am I a skeptic? a true skeptic? or just a dumb ass I don't think I know anymore
Thanks to The Case Master and PhoenixOD for some clarification on those definitions.

reply to post by txMEGAlithic


I dont think you are a dumb ass.

If you are prepared to look at each sighting on a case by case basis and use unbiased critical thinking to evaluate the evidence rather than automatically believe what is being claimed then you are a skeptic. This does not have to alter your beliefs in the possibility of life in space

I think the X files moto of "I want to believe" is also the moto of many skeptics.

I can't stand skeptics and debunkers as they make poor scientists. They start out with a conclusion and design everything to fir that conclusion. Science doesn't work that way.

Their conclusion is of course "it cannot be an alien spacecraft under any circumstances and must absolutelybe something natural or misidentified".

So no, they really do science a disservice and makes all scientists look like nutcases because of their close mindedness.

Agree with the thread sentiment, ufology is like a well-balanced eco-system, it's what makes it interesting.

reply to post by PhoenixOD
Maybe I am a little less critical than some but I do try to separate the believing aspect from objectiveness and evidence.
I guess I am skeptic, I just want the real proof, even if it is just partial proof or proof of something else altogether.
So, is a troll one of the Pseudo-skeptics / closed-minded skeptics that The Case Master Karl12 spoke of? If so, I had it all wrong, all along.
TXML

Dr. Bernard Haisch has some interesting thoughts on skepticism and the UFO topic at his UFO Skeptic website.

Skeptic - One who practices the method of suspended judgment, engages in rational and dispassionate reasoning as exemplified by the scientific method, shows willingness to consider alternative explanations without prejudice based on prior beliefs, and who seeks out evidence and carefully scrutinizes its validity.

Haisch says:

I propose that true skepticism is called for today: neither the gullible acceptance of true belief nor the closed-minded rejection of the scoffer masquerading as the skeptic. One should be skeptical of both the believers and the scoffers. The negative claims of pseudo-skeptics who offer facile explanations must themselves be subject to criticism.

Tons of outstanding reading material at his site. Extremely intelligent guy. You should each check it out.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
You can be a skeptic AND believe in aliens and flying saucers etc.

Then you are not a real skeptic, which is good for you. A real skeptic will find an excuse to explain even the most unexplainable cases, they would make websites to post their nonsense because this is what it is when it comes to real cases about things they do not understand or have only partially familiarized with. You can see absolutely every case debunked, I mean every one, doesn't mean you have to buy it