A stupid Question about time travel

Ok this really might be a stupid question but I'll put it out anyway.

Our Solar System revolves around the galactic core/center once every 280 million years at the speed of 220 Km/s or less than 1% of light speed.

Now if we calculate the precise point in space where the solar system will be in about say 2 years time and we are able to build a manned or unmanned ship that can reach there faster than we will, then can we technically say that we have achieved time travel?

we are no where near building something that can travel at the speed of light but in about another 60-80 years we can come up with some form of a spacecraft that travels at only 10% the speed of light.

What do members think?

(Mods please move to appropriate board if required)

Not time travel. You've simply arrived at a destination beforehand and are waiting for everyone to catch up.

reply to post by smyleegrl


But then what will take our entire solar system, earth and rest of humanity 2 full years will be achieved by that spacecraft in less than that. so form our perspective and as we understand time will that still not be time travel.

As above, there would only be spacial travel, not time travel. Time will elapse, maybe at slightly different rates, but not significantly.

You could achieve similar 'time travel' by launching a craft that travels near the speed of light, slowing its relatively to that of Earth, then return the ship to normal speeds around the planet. Time would relatively have gone faster on Earth than on the ship, and the travellers would have moved forward in relative time.

reply to post by lordvader


what im thinking is,, time is within you,, time is effecting your body,, your body is a process of time and has rates of change.... when your ship gets in the destination ahead of our solar system and you are waiting for our solar system,, the rate of change of your body will still be occurring the same as on earth? time is still passing equally and evenly......

this thread will need some good definitions of time........ if a body is cryogenically frozen and awakened 100 years later did that body time travel? it certainly was not effected by time while time effected normally all other things....

something else i have been thinking of semi related to this............ im not sure if time is created from the small levels of atomic seconds... which build minutes, hours, days, weeks months.... or if it is dictated from the macro movements of planets, which is quite consistent yearly and monthly and beyond...... anyway, im wondering if in another galaxy or say this one,, there is a solar system that has much shorter day and yearly orbits, if that can have an effect on the possible rate of chemical reactions thus creating a different experience of time.....

eh.. time is relative.

reply to post by lordvader


Okay... so lets say you and I are in Toronto and we want to go to New York City. You're going to take the scenic route up over the North Pole, down over Europe, Southeast Asia, and Australia, over Antarctica, and back up to New York, which will take a few hours. Meanwhile, I'm gonna go straight down to New York City, which will take just a few minutes. Am I time travelling?

Or you and I are both heading to Ottawa, again from Toronto. You're flying, so you'll get there in a few minutes. Meanwhile, I'm walking, so I should be there in a couple months. Are you time travelling?

No, on all counts.

Ok now I present questions?

Q1 Let us assume that our solar system is hit by an unexplained gravitational wave and it either accelerates or deaccelerates not only the orbit of the solar system but also of individual planets. I know this will not cause time travel but then how do we define the changes to time itself. In our bodies will continue to age at the normal rate but the years, months, weeks, days, hours me be shorter or longer. so then how do we track changes in time and define time in this scenario? Further if this sort of distortion occurs then the light from our star which may or may not be visible on other planets outsider our solar system will it distort the actual distance and the rate or movement when the light from our star is viewed from another planet outside our solar system?

Q2. We know that large and powerful earthquakes can shave off tiny nano seconds off the speed of the earths rotation. Now let is assume there are series of very powerful earthquakes distort the time of earths rotation and if humans do not correct this distortion by adjusting the clock and the distortion accumulates then how will this effect us. Once again our bodies will age at the normal rate but how will this distortion in time effect us?

Thank you

reply to post by lordvader


Time is no longer kept according to the Sun and Moon. Time is kept with atomic clocks, the most notable Master Atomic Clock being that maintained by the US Naval Observatory. No matter what happens to the Solar System, the Galaxy, or whatever, the atomic clock will continue to run as usual. You need to rewrite atomic physics in order to start messing with the time kept by atomic clocks...and, if you start messing with atomic physics, don't be surprised if you collapse the universe.

reply to post by CLPrime


So if I am understanding you right then even if we are hit by a gravitational wave which slows down both earths rotation and revolution the current measure of time will still stand? it this what you are saying and if yes then will we not have to arrive at a new definition of Days months and years?

reply to post by lordvader


That's right.
If something changed the Earth's rate of rotation and revolution, then we would certainly have to redefine a "day" and a "year" because a day is the time it takes for the Earth to make one rotation and a year is the time is takes for the Earth to make one revolution. But that has nothing to do with the rate of the passage of time...that just changes how long a day or year is.

reply to post by CLPrime


Alright then I come back to my original question but with a change. If a manned spacecraft achieves a speed of 20% of the speed of light and it orbits around the earth then 5-6 years from now (from our perspective) will the person in the spacecraft traveled in time?

reply to post by lordvader


Because the spacecraft is travelling at 20% the speed of light, it will experience time dilation due to its extreme velocity. From the perspective of observers on the Earth, the people in the spacecraft will have experienced a slowing of time...so they will be younger.

Because the spacecraft is at a higher altitude, it will also experience time dilation due to being in a lesser gravitational potential. From the perspective of the observers on the Earth, this will undo some of the slowing of time caused by the high velocity.

The net result will be that the people in the spacecraft will, from the perspective of observers on the Earth, have aged less than the 5-6 years that have passed on the Earth, but not by as much as they would have if they had been travelling at 20% the speed of light at the surface of the Earth. The excessive speed will cause a slowing of time, but the lesser gravitational force will undo some of that.

reply to post by CLPrime


so to slow down time, one would need to in a relative area, slow down the speed of atomic motion? trick is atomic motion is needed at its speed for us to exist in the way we do....

reply to post by ImaFungi


Pretty much. Though, it's not the motion, itself, that's needed...it's the fact that atomic motion (specifically, the frequencies of electron transition in super-cooled atoms exposed to certain frequencies of light) is governed by physical laws, which need to be changed in order to change the rates of that motion. And changing physical laws is a bad idea.

The easiest way to slow down time is to move. Go for a walk...you'll have time travelled ever so slightly into the future compared to the rest of the planet.
If you go for a walk in the basement, the effect will be amplified (though, you still won't be able to notice it...but the effect is real, nonetheless).

reply to post by CLPrime


ok..

in a post i made above i mentioned a thought i had about other solar systems having different rates of rotation and revolution... im wondering if that could have an effect on time,,, if life forms developed on a planet that (theoretically) revolved around its star in one of our days, and the rotation of the planet was much faster then our planet, if the life forms that developed would perceive and experience "time" much differently then we do?

reply to post by ImaFungi


According to observers on the Earth, any planet that has any relative velocity will experience some amount of time dilation. That means, according to us, they will have experienced less time. However, that does nothing to change what has happened on the planet in that time, because the same processes/events have occurred...they've just taken less time.

reply to post by CLPrime


more along the lines of what i was thinking.....
would the lifeforms of a planet with a much faster revolution and rotation,, be able to do things at a higher rate.... i.e.
on earth there is a certain rate of time for chemical reactions, and a human matabolism, and the length of time for a human fetus to grow and be born.....

would the lifeforms on the other planet be able to do these things quicker.... all of this becomes pretty void once the life forms of any planet get a hold of the laws of physics and are able to control themselves and their environment, for they will have the free will to create themselves as efficient as possible in whatever their own image entails....

reply to post by ImaFungi


Revolution and rotation, specifically, have nothing to do with it, unless you're talking about time relative to the star it's orbiting around.
What matters is the planet's velocity relative to the Earth. Chances are, as the planet orbits (and as the Earth orbits), that relative velocity will change dramatically...and, over time, it will probably approximately cancel out. This would lead to a net result of the same passage of time being experienced on both the Earth and the other planet.

ETA: what would matter, in this case, is the relative velocity of the central star with respect to our Sun. That will give you the net relative velocity of the other planet with respect to the Earth, and, from that, you can calculate the time dilation. According to us, they would be doing things quicker because less time has passed for them relative to us. However, according to them, we would be doing things quicker, because, from their perspective, less time would have passed for us relative to them. It all depends who you ask.

Ok CLPrime my question now is if instead of being in orbit outside earth if an aircraft were to achieve 20% speed of light and flying at an altitude of let's say 40,000 meters would then be somewhat traveling in time.

Also regarding how we perceive time I go back to my earlier question if a gravitational wave hits our solar system and earth and does not have an effect on time for us but the wave does change the position of our solar system by either slowing or accelerating it's orbit, then for an observer on another planet at the far end of our galaxy or universe will it not cause distortion in the calculations for our distance and also if we extrapolate to a bigger model will it not cause distortion in measuring the accurate age of the cosmos?

What are your thoughts ?

reply to post by lordvader


If i drive to the party and you walk there and i greet you at the door. have i time traveled? not a stupid question though.