Where's the end

reply to post by Lichter daraus


instead of me describing how its contained why don't you tell me what exists outside of it?

having a conversation with any of you is worthless.

you're all too busy pushing something no one is buying.

good luck next week.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by Lichter daraus

 

instead of me describing how its contained why don't you tell me what exists outside of it?

having a conversation with any of you is worthless.

you're all too busy pushing something no one is buying.

good luck next week.

Wow, no need to be a dick when someone asks you a question. i was just curious as to what you thought of how its contained. And i don't push anything on this site, read my posts. i guess i don't really understand why your here if having a convo with any of us is worthless, But anyway ill remember to never question anything you say as you seem to be unwilling to answer questions.


Good luck to you, Peace...



ETA: I wasn't saying you were wrong about anything, i just asked a question.

Originally posted by michaelbrux
reply to post by Lichter daraus

 

working in teams must be fun. one of you gets to act like a vage and then another comes in right behind and tries to be cool.

and then when your target dismisses them, the target is the bad guy.

i don't need luck...you do.

being that you hardly even know where you are or what's going on.

besides, theory is boring...applications is where its all at.

you believe in whatever you want to believe in...its been working so well for you anyway.

and just to be certain...its a well known fact that posters enjoy working in teams on these forums.

edit on 5-5-2012 by michaelbrux because: (no reason given)

What the hell are you talking about? I'm not teaming up with anybody. I asked one frickin question and all you can do is bash me? Man did you wake up an the wrong side of the bed. And just because it is a well known fact that members team up doesn't mean i am. I pretty much work alone on ATS if any one backs me its because they chose to on there own terms.

reply to post by Lichter daraus


i'm not talking about anything. i often ramble...i'm the one with all the questions and became upset when someone asked a question.

i incorrectly assumed that you and longjohn's britches were teammates and good friends in denying ignorance.

but I stand by my response:

instead of defining the container, which one may not be able to define...tell me what exists outside the universe.

if you have no answer the logical conclusion is that the universe is contained.

but for the OP...the end is next Friday.

reply to post by michaelbrux


OK you may be right, i never disagreed or agreed i was just asking what your thoughts were if you had any thought on that aspect. Im sorry that your post caused me to have a question, but thats what i do, i ask questions.

reply to post by longjohnbritches


Then again, it is all speculation.
For all we know, we could be a super advanced computer simulation.

reply to post by Lichter daraus


well you know how it is...when you want to argue and fight and you can't...only this typing stuff on the computer.

everyone gets to argue, debate and fight and some of us have to sit around. so all one has left is to start stuff with random people on the internet.

i have to say i'm a bit disappointed that you and the other chick weren't trying to start something.

nevertheless...some problems, such as the question, 'where's the end' can only be answered indirectly.

or, the universe may be doughnut shaped as Homer Simpson once postulated to Stephen Hawking.

in this scenario, the entire universe, the doughnut, is contained, while at the same time it is containing a separate and distinct space, wholly defined by the hole in its center.

in this empty space, the hole at the center of the doughnut. one may see a gravitational singularity, which is the source and core of the entire system, the doughnut shaped universe.

i envision a space light blue in color and a gold trapezoid that makes the sound of a trumpet.

then, i guess that other guy is right...there is no beginning or ending and growth is an illusion.

Second star to the right,
and straight on 'til morning.

Space is a "structure" which is actually time that is non-kinetic, we recognize as that string of infinitesimal duration instances called "the present". Time is a "structure" that is actually space, we recognize as existing that is both all the future AND all the past, while the transition is taking place either toward the instances that are "the present", or away from the instances that are "the present".

Our Universe, that our sensors recognize, exists from the string of instances that is the present (infinite expanse of space and zero time) as it is converting BACK into the default state of pure time as all the past and no space. An implosion of space itself from everywhere, towards everywhere where the result is time as all the past. All targeting the ONE infinitely kinetic, infinitesimal Singularity.

I drove my chemistry teacher crazy with these questions in high school...

I asked him what was at the edge of the universe and his simple answer was nothing. My rebuttal was OK, that makes no sense because just by defining it as nothing it is no longer nothing. Nothing doesn't exist. There has to be something!

My teacher was a good guy and extremely intelligent... I actually felt honored to have such a worthy educator as so many just don't make the grade these days so to speak. Well this was over 10 years ago but I digress... I'm not sure if I just didn't understand or if he just didn't know how to properly explain... Or perhaps he had no idea and refused to concede that to a 10th grader.

I've spent many nights pondering this question and I've asked many people. I still haven't got a satisfying answer. I mentioned to my grandfather shortly before he died that while I don't wish to die today I do look forward to getting my questions answered when I do. He laughed and told me I still wouldn't get an answer even then.

I sure hope he's wrong. It kinda pisses me off that he now knows if there are answers and if so what they are. If he does he hasn't tried to share them with me, although I suspect that even if he could, he wouldn't. I'm sure that just made him smile...

If we lived on an electron flying around a neucleus... how big would the Universe be then? Where would it end? What we experience as the Universe may in fact be a tiny tiny part of a much much larger reality that we can not see or comprehend. We may never be able to build intruments that can ever give us the answers to that question as we may be so small in the real scheme of things that it's just not possible for us to know the answers. Just like it is not possible for an ant to every have a brain like we have.

Science should spend more time learning to really extend our lives so those of us who would like to live much longer than we do now could. That way perhaps in time we might get some more answers to your question. I doubt that your answer will come in even a billion years if any humans survive that long.

does the answer to the greatest question ever matter if you're existance is meaningless because of it?

The Universe is contained within space. the space is created as are the stars etc.
In order to grow to has to take in what is outside of itself and work upon it thus creating Space or pathways for the galaxy's and stars - So yes there are other areas of matter outside the Universe yet to be worked upon and other Universes besides this one.
However we on Earth look out at the Universe but in reality we are looking at the base of the Universe IMO

reply to post by Lichter daraus

Ok, then my question is this: If it is a contained space, then where is that contained space contained?

You nailed my from-childhood thoughts that have occupied me for many hours since then. Still one of my favourite pastimes when the plane is late or a particularly boring person is bending my ear. Worst was, I could never explain to anyone exactly what I was getting at. It is easy to say expanding or whatever, but into what is it expanding into even now, irrespective of whether it will keep expanding or collapse back into nothingness - only to rise again?.

The nothingness prior to the big bang existed in this Whatever-and-wherever-it-is that is being filled by the products of the big bang. So technically this Universe is finite (if it is still expanding) but the Wawis has to be infinite, or at least a lot bigger than the present size of this Universe. So where is the Wawis situated and if I am told in infinity, where is infinity situated? Infinity is everywhere, did someone say? Everywhere, where is that?

Only solution I ever could imagine is that this is all just an illusion, but even that is not a real solution as it poses another question. What is the purpose of this illusion. To amuse God? OK, so where is God?

And if God is the physics that rules all matter and energy, can Physics exist without a material world. Kind of Zen, like the tree falling that makes no sound if nobody hears it. And if Physics does need a material universe, where is this Universe situated? Oh dear, been there already ....

What about the field that existed before the big bang and the emergence of matter. Did it not need a somewhere to reside?

If there is an answer to this question, I would love to hear it but believe there is a huge piece of something missing that does not allow us to come close to an answer or understanding that answer if there is one. Look forward to some interesting responses.

KenArten - once again lost in the Wawis in my mind...

reply to post by KenArten


Consciousness itself became aware it existed and thus took shape or form
Scanning it's surroundings it knew it had been created yet no trace of it's Creator or Creator's existed.
All that existed was it Consciousness embedded in matter.
Consciousness began to experiment and work upon, refining the matter it was surrounded by - by taking it into itself
The matter in the Universe today is a creation of consciousness working upon the original matter that surrounded it.
The Universe is surrounded by matter which it works upon - This is not the only Universe - matter yet to worked upon is what separates us from joining with other Universes IMO

Originally posted by sparky31
wheres it going?its already indescribable,like some1 already said i,ve lay and looked up and thot what r we in this?........can,t even grasp what cud be out there and can,t grasp if we have any input in it atall......nothing has been shown that we have any significance in anything......to me we haven,t even scratched the surface to understanding what anythings about

Please, what is 'thot'?

reply to post by artistpoet

Neat comments and explanation.
Accepted, Consciousness indeed needed to fashion matter from …
You say

the matter it was surrounded by - by taking it into itself

so matter did exist, just needed to be shaped?

I say, a field (perhaps simply an emf field of some sort) existed and something (Consciousness, Creator?) turned it into matter in the action of the Big Bang.

And yes, also accepted this is one of many (maybe an infinite number of) Universes, each fashioned by other Consciousnesses, or simply multiple desires for other forms of Universes or different choices …
BUT
Where are these Universes and matter and Consciousnesses and …?

OP said

The universe is always growing
But where is it going

Lichter daraus says

If it is a contained space, then where is that contained space contained?

Aye, that is the question? If we know that, we know where the Universe is going (expanding into).

And if it is all a dream, who is dreaming the dream. And if it is me? who am I and where am I? Even a totally metaphysical answer still suggests a place, be it a metaphysical space, where all this is happening.

reply to post by KenArten


IMO
Matter did exist before, prior to our Universe coming into being -
The matter in the Universe is that which was taken in and is being worked upon
The matter outside the Universe is less worked upon and in way less pliable
Consciousness works upon matter to refine it
As you say - the matter outside the Universe is what was created by an Event
This event caused consciousness IE Universes to became separated from one another.
Our Universe is but one of many Universes that are locked up in matter that was created at the time of the Event
Our Universe however is consciousness that arose since that Event
Our Universe is working to put matter into a more refined state so it can join with other Universes that were separated by the event.
It is truly a Mystery but perhaps consciousness has to give itself a purpose for existing at all
IE Refining matter
It appears to be doing a most wondrous job for life is rich and fulfilling.
Consciousness or Intelligence allows each soul a little part of itself which the soul then can work upon and so ones soul can grow or evolve.
We are all given choice however and each evolves at their own rate of understanding
IMO
Now I will go attempt to tie my shoe laces Lol