What do Pro-Romney/Pro-Obama people LIKE about their policies? I can tell you what I LIKE about Ron

Still waiting on bullet points as to WHY Romney or Obama are candidates of choice....pardon me while I go bowling in the meantime:

reply to post by GrinchNoMore




Another classic reponse.

Every single thing mentioned would weaken america immensely. And rp himself has talked about cutting those funds, so no, they aren't lies from the anti-paul crowd.

Instead of saying "you're wrong" and walking away, why don't you back it up. How am I wrong?

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Disbanding the EPA - Sure I can understand how this might upset some people. You feel that the environment might be totally screwed without it. But if you truly knew how little the EPA accomplished and how much backdoor deals get done through them, you would realize that their loss would only save money. Ron Paul isn't against getting rid of environment restrictions and allowing corporations to run roughshot on the environment, he just believes it can be done without an organization that wastes money and does not accomplish much in the long run.

Cutting funding to public schools - What did schools do before government gave them handouts? Do you think they did not exist? I know in PA, cutting to public schools has happened twice in the last two years and it has had nothing to do with Ron Paul's policies. The problem we have is that we have "public" schools at all. Education is not something for federal government to impede upon.

Foreign economic policy - I assume you mean foreign aid? Because that is the only thing that changes in his foreign economics. His foreign policy in general is non-interventionalist, an ideal that was supported by ALL of the Founding Fathers of the United States, and an ideal with stood strong with the US for many years up until it broke that pact. The problem with getting involved with other countries, is that you intern begin to dictate their decisions and model your systems after their policies as well. Countries propped up by foreign aid are done the same harm as people propped up on welfare, they are taught to keep making the same mistakes and keep the same failed policies because they are guaranteed to be propped up by Big Brother in the end. A key example is Israel, where many of the lead economists in Israel has stated, "The biggest obstacle to economic freedom in Israel, is continued foreign aid from the United States." How has our foreign aid helped Africa? That is, unless you believe moving from one dictator to the next and one rotten condition to another is in some way helping a country.

Abortion - Paul is pro-life. Yet he has maintained the belief that the federal government should not get involved in the abortion debate whatsoever and that it should be left up to the state and individual levels. Are you the type of person that would rather have it forced one way or another, nationally, upon everyone, because that is how YOU feel about it?

Debt default - His "idea" of defaulting on debt is not an idea. It is a statistical guarantee. The moment our debt payments surpassed the amount of money our country pulls in every year, the countdown began. You can dislike his "idea" all you want, just as much as you can dislike the idea when you take out a 100,000 dollar loan from a bank and not make the payments.. that you too will default. But regardless of what idea you believe in or not - the inevitable is still going to happen. Ron Paul's idea is a reality for what is coming in America, he seeks to soften the blow instead of accruing more debt that we would have to pay, the same thing any other logical person would do.

"Impotence" on voting on beliefs - Wait... so you dislike the guy... because he stands by his beliefs? Am I understand that correctly? I understand the first bunch, and I tried to explain them as best I could, but this is absolutely ridiculous. You would rather have someone who has a voting record against his beliefs... you mean a record like Obama has prior to his election.

This point makes absolutely no sense. It is like saying - I don't like the guy because he is trustworthy. He sticks to his guns so there is no way I can vote for that guy.




Now I can hope you will read what I said about these issues and debate a little bit with me, but sometimes I am hoping for too much.

reply to post by gwydionblack






I will gladly debate the points you have raised:

-EPA-It is trendy these days to claim that the EPA does nothing. And the truth is, reform is greatly needed. I can tell you, as a FACT, however, that the EPA has a history of being a VERY effective agency, and while it has definitely fallen into the system of bureaucracy, it is the reason that, here in oregon, the paper mills, creosote plants, refineries, and sewage treatment plants do not dump DIRECTLY into the Willamette and Columbia Rivers, as they did before the EPA. Reform the EPA? Absolutely. get rid of it? You have got to be Friggin kidding me.

-Funding to schools-one thing that RP, and his followers, fail to take into account when making the argument "what do you think they did before they had funding?", is that the population of this country has risen astronomically since that time. There are far more people, and, thus, far more students in school. Communities simply could not fund schools as they have to be now. You think classroom sizes are bad now? Wait until communites are left to fund themselves, and thus, have one building for each section (k-5, 6-8. 9-12). How productive will a classroom of 500 students be? Of 1000?

-Foreign Ec-Non-intervention is great, especially when it comes to armed conflict. I am a believer that aggression should only be used in defense. However, there are many people that would, simply put, not be alive without american foreign aid. You ask how it has helped Africa? Some estimates have the number as high as 500 million deaths if america cut aid to africa.

-Abortion-I have created a thread Re: Rp and abortion. I believe he intends to do away with it altogether. I believe that the states-rights argument in this case is a smokescreen. It is a topic that I learned in the thread that i created, is not worth debating. I am strongly pro-choice. I support Roe v. Wade. I simply will not be convinced to feel otherwise, regardless of the justifications and attempts do change it through the back door. . This is one topic I will not budge on.

-Debt Default-No, it is not inevitable. There are viable, economic ways out of this. It will take a very long time, but it is doable. Defaulting on debt, however, will ruin america. Its another subject that gets overlooked by RP followers. If america defaults on debt, what do you think happens to its international standing? To all of the imports, and exports that are the very lifeblood of america? What do you think happens when the dollar is dropped internationally? Think gas is spendy now? Wait until oil is no longer priced based on the dollar. Furthermore, consider who the largest holder of that debt is. Social Security. That means you and I.

-Impotence on issues-my issue with this is, the guy has NEVER gotten anything that he has wanted, done. What would lead me to believe this will change if he gets into the whitehouse? Promises are great, but he has done NOTHING to show that he can actually accomplish ANYTHING.

Im noticing quite a trend in these threads. Ask for reasons why people arent voting RP. Tell them they are wrong, but challenge them to back up their claims. Then abandon the thread when they do.

Not saying it is intentional, but it sure is an interesting trend.

Originally posted by gwydionblack


Now I can hope you will read what I said about these issues and debate a little bit with me, but sometimes I am hoping for too much.

Quoted for hilarity, considering what has happened since I responded with the debate you were hoping for.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Im noticing quite a trend in these threads. Ask for reasons why people arent voting RP.Tell them they are wrong, but challenge them to back up their claims. Then abandon the thread when they do.

Not saying it is intentional, but it sure is an interesting trend.

He hasn't been here for two days, give him some time... Oh wait...

I feel ya. I was told I shouldn't vote because I was so unsure who to vote for in the primaries,,,Mitt Romney's the only choice I have left for me personally so I'll stick with him. Doesn't mean I'm a fanboy