What do Pro-Romney/Pro-Obama people LIKE about their policies? I can tell you what I LIKE about Ron

I'm at a standstill in my mind here, quite simply because I can't comprehend the reasoning of some people on ATS and around the world as to why they are supportive of Romney and/or Obama. Or maybe they are not, maybe they are just against Ron Paul policies - not sure.

But as Ron Paul haters scour around topics and publicly show their disdain for the man and his policies, and voice their support for Romney/Obama, they never seem to get around to saying why. What about these men intrigues them so much that they would turn down the principles of Paul?

I'm not here to troll, or start argument, I would literally like to know the positives that people find in these men then make them want to vote for them over Ron Paul, and in exchange I will tell you the facts of why I like Ron Paul.


True fiscal conservatism - Ron Paul believes in actually cutting spending in ways in which it will matter. So many politicians claim to cut a billion here and 100 million here, but when you are spending trillions of dollars per year - none of it makes a difference. He has outlined a plan to cut $1 trillion in his first year as president, a feat that Romney has done nothing close to, and Obama has simply railed up debt after debt. He also plans to lower funding for needless organizations, lower the war budget, and end all foreign aid - a process that should have happened the moment the financial crisis his our shores - until we are able to sustain ourselves again.

Smaller Government - In the plan to cut $1 trillion, Ron Paul plans to eliminate the Departments of Interior, Education, Commerce, Energy, and Housing and Urban Development. Most people can't even tell you what many of these groups do, but they do spend a lot of money. He seeks to bring the responsibilities of these organization, particularly that of the department of energy and educations - back to a state and local level and allow individual choice in the way we handle out energy policed and our children our educated. Is that a bad thing?

Extremely Lower Taxes - I'm talking moreso than any other candidate - EVER. I thought everyone loves a lower tax platform? Paul wants to END the federal income tax so the government can no longer take money from your wages that YOU worked hard for. He has signed a pledge to never raise or ever create new taxes EVER while he is in office and he has never in his tenure voted to do so.

Social Security - Many people believe Ron Paul wants to flat out end social security and curtail everyones benefits, but he doesn't. He simply wants to allow anyone to opt out of the system if they don't want to use it, and he believes that in time the system will die itself. Nobody would lose any SS investments under Ron Paul.

Non-interventialist, NOT ISOLATIONIST - Ron Paul believes in keeping the United States out of the business of other countries, which means not starting any preemptive wars which have been the cause for the last 5+ wars that the United States has been involved in. This does not mean that we do not maintain a healthy trade and foreign relationship with countries - it means that we do not go to war and send our troops for trivial reasons, especially when out government is financial incapable of supporting such actions.

End the Federal Reserve - Ron Paul was the only candidate who wanted to audit the Federal Reserve of the United States, and it was only after his movement became popular that other candidates began to jump onto the bandwagon. However, Ron Paul is the only candidate that wants to entirely abolish the Federal Reserve, as it is unconstitutional, and allow the United States to once again return to a sound money system, not the fiat currency we currently have where our dollars are nothing more than printed sheets worth nothing.

Bring the troops home - Unlike the other candidates who have already pledged a new war or continue on a decade long old one - Ron Paul has promised that there would be no new wars unless the United States was attacked and that our troops would finally be brought home from Iraq, Afghanistan, and the 130 bases around the globe - to defend our borders and enforce immigration laws at home. I don't know of anyone who honestly thinks the war should go on any longer than it already has.

Individual Freedom - Last but not least - Ron Paul is the ONLY candidate who is in support of individual freedoms. Even if all the other things above were not true - this is the only thing I would need to vote for Ron Paul. When it comes to issues such as gun control, gay marriage, freedom of religious expression, freedom of speech, rights to privacy, freedom of education, freedom of the markets, the repealing of Obamacare, the repealing of the NDAA, and most of all the repealing of the Patriot Act - Ron Paul is the only candidate on the side of individual liberty. He wants people to be free to make their own choices without government involvement and without the majority of everyone else telling them what they can and cannot do. Is this such a bad idea to run with?






So that is what is appealing to me about Ron Paul. I see no flaws. NONE. The only thing I have ever held quarrel with Ron Paul about, is his stringent denial that 9/11 could have had government involvement - but that is completely understandable as any candidate who would say such things would be deemed crazy. He has, however, been completely open that he believes it to be an excuse, and a 100% failure of bureaucracy to protect the people. So good for him.

My point is - I have this list of things. I would like people to make a list of their candidates and what they support about them. And if you have the time - tell me what about my Ron Paul list is bad and discourages you from voting for Ron Paul.

Quite simply... looking at past voters, I can't understand how a candidate who wants to "End the war, lower/end taxes, create smaller government, AND promotes individual liberties" could be at odds with anyone in their mind.

That is... unless they are people out there that enjoy watching people die for them, loving giving away their money and possessions for nothing, like to be controlled by people they never meet, and enjoy not being able to choose what they do with their lives.



Sadly, it seems those people do exist, and I want to hear from them.

I gave you 10 extra stars and flags (in my mind of course) because you bring up excellent points into focus and I happen to agree with you--The Second US Revolution is coming.

I HOPE you get replies because I've been very curious about this as well.

So far zero replies.

I'm not surprised.

I suppose the Obamney supporters are embarassed to admit they love being controlled and have Big Brother watching everything they do, and love us being at war with everyone.

I DO think some would say it's good to have our troops in 130 different world posts to keep the peace - but what peace has been kept? Is it before or after we move in, destroy lives and homes and move out leaving a scarred shell behind? (but dare ANY other country to come do that to OUR country, oh nonononono.)

I know with his stance on housing and food stamps etc, he'd hold off on stopping those til those people got back on their feet and were stable themselves - which won't happen if we keep going how we have. But maybe the Obmaney supporters LIKE having the underdogs to gripe about.

Maybe that's it on the entire thing, man. Maybe those supporters would be bored if they had nothing any more to complain about.

All guesses of course, but what else could it BE????

excellent topic to bring up.....
what do people like about an obvious sorry sap sucker......it doesn't matter, though we're being railroaded well.
here's where one should trust God cause we'll be going with the flow now
this world is not what first meets the eye

edit...just realized going with the flow....ha....like in a swirl for a minute then, ....off to where the pipe takes you

Thank you very much for this thread. I've wanted to make a thread like this for a while now but I didn't have the right words coming to my mind to properly get it done.

Very interested in hearing from some notorious Ron Paul Bashers who probably won't even bother with this thread because it will be their instant defeat.

I'm voting for Obama because unlike Romney and Paul, he doesn't want to eliminate the social programs that keep us from mass chaos.

Such an excellent post, gb.
Great points and highlights.

In my mind, there is no other option.
We have been played long enough.
It's ashame that some people see it but most others ignore it.
Like they don't want the wool to be uncovered from their eyes.

I can't see how anyone in their right mind would want this current scheme to keep running.
That's exactly what the last 100 years have been.
A giant scheme.

Why wouldn't everyone want to change all this frivalous spending, lies, and corruption?
Dr. Paul knows we need to change it.
I know we need to, also.



There is no other choice.

I agree with his first three points, but then again Paul never specifically outlines his plans about HOW he will do those things. Everything else, I don't like about him... There does that answer your questions?

And no, everyone should NOT have the right to do WHATEVER they want. That's silly and not the reason the constitution was created.

reply to post by CB328


That's it?

Mindless slaughter and mass bankruptcy is all worth it. A struggling class system where the rich get rich and the poor get poorer continues. A market with unending restrictions and regulations that make it impossible to compete with your own business. A constant ending to individual liberties.

You would vote for all that in the name of people being able to collect free food and money every month?

How about thinking about a system where people would be well enough off where they wouldn't need free food and money? How does creating and structuring our lives on a system of welfare ever help to improve things?

I would hope there is something better than that, because once again, Ron Paul isn't simply going to wipe away entitlement programs. He plans to wean people off of them like the drug addiction they have become. Yet another blatant misconception that people like to spread around wildly.



reply to post by jjf3rd77


Doesn't outline his plans on how? You must not have been paying attention...

Ron Paul's Plan to Restore America (2013)

As far as I am aware he is the only candidate that has gone into as much detail for any of their plans even down to exactly how much money he will save through each action.

As for how he plans to accomplish it? How the hell does any President accomplish anything? By working with Congress to get things passed and then signing them into law. Or on the reverse, by working with Congress and the Supreme Court to get things repealed and removed from law. When the hell has any other candidate outlines how things were going to get done? It is assumed that it will get done the same way all other action has been done through the presidency through the past 100+ years.

Now one could argue that Congress will be against Paul, which I'm sure will be true. But I would argue that no progress in this current situation would be better then falling deeper into the pit. After all, if you are climbing a ladder to get out of ditch, would you rather stay on the same rung you are at until you get a chance to climb further up, or fall down rung by rung and pretend that your are getting closer to the top? I daresay that is what Obama and the other candidates will continue to do... as Obama has done since his nomination.







But yes, a few hours in and we still haven't seen any detailed responses or any big time players that I normally see on here. I'm ready and waiting for some viewpoints.

reply to post by gwydionblack


I like everything you said ... and I like his 'cut foreign aid' best ... But that being said, he isn't going to get in and he will be way too old to run again. America has missed a fantastic opportunity for REAL change (change in a positive direction).

I see no one on the horizon that comes close to Dr. Paul.
No one in the wings waiting to come forward ....

I saw this thread when you first posted it this morning. You have gotten one reply(to the question) and wasn't really a valid argument to be had. I think that the paid shills are not ready to answer these questions, they're not included on the cue cards. I'm highly interested as well, being from another (but closely tied) country (we're north of you ;D). Your election effects what happens to us as well, maybe not in a direct manner. But it gets here eventually.

Perhaps ron paul will strike something here in canada, and we'll have someone here to take the place of our current increasingly fascist/bigbrother government. Someone to give the middle finger to the financial elite, reinstate the bank of canada. all that stuff. We're all in it together now, change will accelerate if Ron Paul wins. Our government tends to yield to US Gov pressure.. It would be good all around methinks.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
I agree with his first three points, but then again Paul never specifically outlines his plans about HOW he will do those things. Everything else, I don't like about him... There does that answer your questions?

And no, everyone should NOT have the right to do WHATEVER they want. That's silly and not the reason the constitution was created.

edit on 5-5-2012 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)

I think you should have a scan to see if there is a tumor pressing up against the cognitive centers of your brain. You think regaining personal liberty means people can do "whatever they want?"

Your rights end where the rights of others begin. It doesn't mean as soon as he's elected it will suddenly be legal to go out and kill, rape, pillage and steal (That's what our current system engages in).

It means you have the freedom to make your own choices about what you do with your own mind and body. It means if you're gay you can get married.

Tyranny exists because of people like you that have tyranny in their heart.

"I don't think them there gay people should be allowed to get married! And I need BIG GOVERNMENT with MORE power so they can force other people to do as I see fit! I don't think people should take drugs, and I need more tyranny to force people not to take them! Yee-haw, drugs and gays are bad! Now where is my anti-depressant prescription?!"

You just keep taking your prescriptions, get your vaccinations (In fact, take multiple shots just to make sure you're healthy), eat only GMO and fast food while washing it down with a big glass of fluoride.

After all, progress happens one death at a time, and we need to get as many backward thinking, tyrannical minds to take as many "healthy" things the state shows on TV as being good for you. Don't forget to stay away from those vitamins and put tons of sunblock on if you go outside!!

reply to post by FlyersFan


I agree with you 100%. But I am hopeful that one day Rand Paul will run.

The silence from the usual group of anti-Paul shills is deafening. It figures though. S&F'ed my friend.

Originally posted by gwydionblack
reply to post by CB328

 

Now one could argue that Congress will be against Paul, which I'm sure will be true. But I would argue that no progress in this current situation would be better then falling deeper into the pit.

So if I am reading this correctly, you would be happy if Ron Paul is President, but becomes another Obama and doesn't accomplish jack Sh*t? How does that make him any different than any other President???

I don't like Ron Paul military plans or social liberal values. That's enough for me not to vote for him, even though he may be a genius at economic policy, if it was only reasonable.

reply to post by gwydionblack


I guess I have to wonder WHY you feel the need to get people to explain what they like or dont like about a candidate. I mean, we all get that there are many on here who are die-hard paul-ites. Why does it bother them so much if someone does not support RP?

Originally posted by AzureSky
I saw this thread when you first posted it this morning. You have gotten one reply(to the question) and wasn't really a valid argument to be had. I think that the paid shills are not ready to answer these questions, they're not included on the cue cards. I'm highly interested as well, being from another (but closely tied) country (we're north of you ;D). Your election effects what happens to us as well, maybe not in a direct manner. But it gets here eventually.

Perhaps ron paul will strike something here in canada, and we'll have someone here to take the place of our current increasingly fascist/bigbrother government. Someone to give the middle finger to the financial elite, reinstate the bank of canada. all that stuff. We're all in it together now, change will accelerate if Ron Paul wins. Our government tends to yield to US Gov pressure.. It would be good all around methinks.

edit on 5/5/12 by AzureSky because: (no reason given)

Or it could be simply that those of us who dont support paul are tired of dealing with things like being called a "paid shill" (because, ya know, if someone doesnt agree with you, they MUST be a paid shill), and have decided to sit back and laugh as reality takes hold.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by gwydionblack

 

I guess I have to wonder WHY you feel the need to get people to explain what they like or dont like about a candidate. I mean, we all get that there are many on here who are die-hard paul-ites. Why does it bother them so much if someone does not support RP?

They don't feel comfortable with anybody who doesn't agree with them, it's typical leftist trickery.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by AzureSky
I saw this thread when you first posted it this morning. You have gotten one reply(to the question) and wasn't really a valid argument to be had. I think that the paid shills are not ready to answer these questions, they're not included on the cue cards. I'm highly interested as well, being from another (but closely tied) country (we're north of you ;D). Your election effects what happens to us as well, maybe not in a direct manner. But it gets here eventually.

Perhaps ron paul will strike something here in canada, and we'll have someone here to take the place of our current increasingly fascist/bigbrother government. Someone to give the middle finger to the financial elite, reinstate the bank of canada. all that stuff. We're all in it together now, change will accelerate if Ron Paul wins. Our government tends to yield to US Gov pressure.. It would be good all around methinks.

edit on 5/5/12 by AzureSky because: (no reason given)

Or it could be simply that those of us who dont support paul are tired of dealing with things like being called a "paid shill" (because, ya know, if someone doesnt agree with you, they MUST be a paid shill), and have decided to sit back and laugh as reality takes hold.

Lol you didn't answer the question.... Since you don't support Paul.. you must be leaning for someone else... why do you want your canidate to be president... tired of being called a paid shill.. stop calling people the rp cult or paulites or paulbots...

s and f for the OP... So far someone says yay for obama because they want free stuff and taking away free stuff will bring chaos... when the country goes broke and collapses no one will get free stuff and those same people will be the beggers.

Originally posted by Doalrite

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by AzureSky
I saw this thread when you first posted it this morning. You have gotten one reply(to the question) and wasn't really a valid argument to be had. I think that the paid shills are not ready to answer these questions, they're not included on the cue cards. I'm highly interested as well, being from another (but closely tied) country (we're north of you ;D). Your election effects what happens to us as well, maybe not in a direct manner. But it gets here eventually.

Perhaps ron paul will strike something here in canada, and we'll have someone here to take the place of our current increasingly fascist/bigbrother government. Someone to give the middle finger to the financial elite, reinstate the bank of canada. all that stuff. We're all in it together now, change will accelerate if Ron Paul wins. Our government tends to yield to US Gov pressure.. It would be good all around methinks.

edit on 5/5/12 by AzureSky because: (no reason given)

Or it could be simply that those of us who dont support paul are tired of dealing with things like being called a "paid shill" (because, ya know, if someone doesnt agree with you, they MUST be a paid shill), and have decided to sit back and laugh as reality takes hold.

Lol you didn't answer the question.... Since you don't support Paul.. you must be leaning for someone else... why do you want your canidate to be president... tired of being called a paid shill.. stop calling people the rp cult or paulites or paulbots...

s and f for the OP... So far someone says yay for obama because they want free stuff and taking away free stuff will bring chaos... when the country goes broke and collapses no one will get free stuff and those same people will be the beggers.

No, I must not be leaning toward someone else. And the behaviour of said people is why they are called such things. Nothing about my behavious implies "paid shill". that is nothing but a pathetic, ad hominem, desperate attack because you dont agree with someone. Which is, again, where the "cult" label comes in.