Auto Insurance is a Fruadalent Enterprise. How do you stop participating?

reply to post by metro


Wait, waah? Use the system to my advantage? Is that still possible?

hmmm.... maybe you should read a few more points, or the summation on page 6. You've dumb downed the topic at hand and make the same arguments that others have. I know the world doesn't revolve around me, I am not that self centered. Belittle me all you want, there is a purpose to this. The title of the thread doesn't do justice to the objective approach to changing the system, which is the thesis to this thread. I'm not going to defend myself against someone who has already made up their mind, I cannot change how you feel, you cannot change how I feel. Accuse me of whatever you feel necessary... after all I'm only 25, what could I know?

reply to post by metro


All right Dad, I have read more than enough of your bogus self righteous sanctimony. Don't like people who do not support your industry, learn to live with it, Pops. This might come to a shock to you and people like you, but the world doesn't revolve around you either!

Here's a reality sandwich for you Father, insurance does not prevent tragedy. Insurance does not keep people from causing bodily harm, it does not stop complete destruction of life due to negligence and you as a former insurance agent should know that, instead of posting such ridiculous chastisement pretending that insurance schemes are like the goddamned second coming!

You used to convince people that you could sell them insurance at a lower rate than your competitors? Those you sold that insurance too should drive better regardless of insurance! There are countless people who've driven without insurance and never had an accident in their life, but let's not admit that, right?
What's the difference between you and me? I don't lie and insist that only people who fall pray to scam artist like you are responsible!

Insurance does not protect people from anything other than expense, and even then if it is going to protect a person from that expense it is predicated on that insurance company acting ethically and paying out in a timely manner. You want to stay in a system that is demonstrably falling apart? Do it! Just don't think your smug self righteous attitude will save that system or shame those who recognize its failure. If you've used the system to your advantage, more power to you, but what utter audacity to attempt to shame those who are being screwed by that system you've taken advantage of. There is an ancient Spanish saying that goes: "Because I've wronged you, I do not like you". If you've taken advantage of the system, this explains why you get so agitate when reading posts by people who talk about being screwed by the system.

Anything else is just you spewing this tired indoctrination you're so obviously brainwashed by, Pops!

reply to post by wishful1gnorance

he judge will call the case and ask how I plead, guilty or not guilty.

Sir I’m not a lawyer and I just don’t understand these proceedings, I intend on pleading guilty [I hand him the unsigned plea of guilty] and paying the fine, but I do have some questions before I can do that. [I repeat often that I’m not a lawyer and don’t understand]

Am I entitled to a fair hearing? Yes or no. [proves RELEVANCE of following questions]

Am I entitled to a meaningful hearing? Yes or no.

What are the consequences, if any, if you don’t give me a fair and meaningful hearing?

Am I entitled to be informed of the nature and cause of the charges and proceedings against me? Yes or no.

I’ve been charged with a crime correct? Yes or no.

And with all crimes there must be a corpus delecti correct? Yes or no.

LINK

Most people are paying insurance that they'll never need, it's a back up of course but the insurance companies are charging more then they have to out of sheer greed.

Not only that, but my girlfriend's car was broken into recently, and she isn't even reporting it to the insurance company- she's going to pay the bills herself because 'she'll lose the no claims'.

What a racket. You pay for insurance but decide you can't claim because if you do, they will increase your insurance costs (even if it isn't your fault) which will mean you're better just paying the repairs yourself. So in many cases, you're not benefiting from having insurance at all.

Of course the idea of insurance is a good one, but the people running the companies are ruthless, greedy bastards and they overcharge big time.

It's not all one way though, the UK is the 'whiplash capital of the world', many minor accidents mean the insurance people pay out on whiplash claims- which must cost them a lot.

That said, if they never overchraged so much in the first place, maybe people would be more honest!

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Hey, I'm 28. I speak from real world experience rather than wispy anecdotes. Insurance has been around for hundreds if not thousands of years. It's a logical and necessary evil. Earliest known instance of insurance dates back to ancient China where people would divide their shipments into 5-10 boats rather than just one so in case one sinks, they still have most of their shipment intact. Spreading your risk is a known wise strategy. Ever heard of keeping all your eggs in one basket? Same thing.

The difference here is, auto insurance isn't about YOU as much as it's about everybody else. That is why when you talk about how you want to get out of it or how you drove with no insurance that one time it just exposes how selfish and how much of a "ME ME ME" attitude you have. People who have insurance have it to protect YOU. You're right that it doesn't prevent injury or hardship. It's there to protect you from financial ruin and to help spread your risk. That's why your rates go up if you are prone to accidents! More accidents or tickets, more risk. It's all a formula and insurance is one of the most regulated industries on the planet. There is no scam happening and if it does, it's dealt with.

Not understanding how the system works is probably the #1 reason for feeling defrauded or scammed. Knowing how to protect yourself with auto insurance will ensure that the system works FOR you. For example: Get a dash cam. They are easy and cheap to buy. If you're a safe driver it will clear you 99% of the time. Especially from those pricks who like to try and get you to rear end them. I can tell you from experience that those who are rear-ended win their cases 95% of the time, and without proof or a good witness you can end up on the bad end of the stick.

Last thing: LEARN about insurance and coverage. Each policy is different and you have to know what it covers and what it doesn't cover. Willful ignorance on this subject is the reason why so many people feel ripped off. Educate yourself, for God's sake.

reply to post by metro


What happens when you understand the system and you still feel you're getting screwed? Do you sit there and take it? I understand the fluctuation of premiums in regards to risk, I'm not a moron. I get what your are saying, I'm not saying insurance should be completely abolished in all regards. The current system is not working out. You say you have mixed feelings but all I see is someone defending insurance like it's god's gift to humans. In fact until you entered the conversation we moved quite far away from anything that is about "ME, ME, ME!" Where do you get this idea that I look upon myself as the divine one? The majority of post are detracting from that idea specifically. You didn't read any of those posts though.

Seriously if you would have read a little further than the first post you may not maintain the same gung-ho attitude of trying to put people in their place. How is it immoral to feel wronged by a system that isn't perfect? How is it wrong to try and change a system that's not fully efficient? Where is the immorality in that? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Others have already brought up your points on the necessities for insurance, for the rest of this thread let's just assume that there is a need to change it, what would you change about it? Share some of your mixed feelings, rather than berating people who sit on the other side of the fence.

reply to post by metro


Oh sure, in your "real world experience" auto insurance prevents "bodily harm" it prevents "loss of assets or complete destruction of life due to negligence...", but this ain't the real world little boy. In the real world people with auto insurance have automobile accidents that do everything you fraudulently claim they prevent.

So disconnected are you from the real world that you call "necessary evils" logical. There is nothing at all logical about evil in any shape or form. You keep repeating yourself on this "it isn't about you" without the slightest hint of irony as you make it all about yourself, and again, fraudulently claiming that this self involved opinion of yours is "about others". You disingenuously scream "ME ME ME" even while pretending I do.

Here's the deal, slick. You want to sell insurance, go for it! You want to pretend that you can force private insurance schemes on other people through the force of the state, this reveals YOU for the petty tyrant YOU are!

Finally: Learn the Law!

reply to post by metro


You are sadly mistaken when you claim that insurance has been around for hundreds if not thousands of years. This just shows your ignorance. In the 1800's and before, there was a thing called a "Surety Bond" in which people would put money, silver and gold, which is REAL money, into a "bank" and would add to it occasionally, then when they got sick and had to pay the doctor or had a house fire and needed building supplies, the "money" was there, the bank would ask for the permission of the "depositor" to loan out the "money" to the local merchantiles or other business for an "interest" rate. then the bond would grow a bit, if oyu never used it too much it was your retirement account. BUT, the government saw how they could usurp that too and made surety bonds illegal and the insurance scam was born. Not that long ago either.

Learn some history son.

Jean-Paul you are wasting your time trying to educate these ignorant people, we are all wasting our time trying to educate the youth.

reply to post by daddio


Are you saying all youths are lost causes?

Originally posted by wishful1gnorance
reply to post by daddio

 

Are you saying all youths are lost causes?

edit on 6-5-2012 by wishful1gnorance because: (no reason given)

No, just the ones who won't take the time to investigate the truth, investigate WHAT is behind all the BS and those who spew BS crap like the 28yr. old who "claims" insurance companies have been around for hundreds if not thousands of years....REALLY?

Look into WHO is running the corporate "government" and filing the correct papers to remove the presumed claim they have over you. We responsible people do not need insurance. WE responsiblepeople are intelligent and careful NOT to trespass on others and NOT to get into accidents. When we do, we take care of business. We have accounts with funds in them to take care of ourselves, rather than turn over hundreds of dollars a year to a wasteful organization of criminals.

Originally posted by daddio
reply to post by metro

 

Learn some history son.

Jean-Paul you are wasting your time trying to educate these ignorant people, we are all wasting our time trying to educate the youth.

Speak for yourself. Lumping all youth together simply because this one has a thick skull is just as ignorant.

reply to post by wishful1gnorance

Because insurance companies are in it for profit, they make money or die. Competition should, according to capitalist theory, keep the costs down.... unless they collude and all rip us off. They have to use statistical averages to avoid bad years shutting them down. More money made in a good year helps pay for bad years. Even a co-op system that is basically non-profit must make enough money to save for bad years. If the competition works, costs SHOULD stay low. This is another reason for laws against monopolies. WHICH have been disappearing, by the way!!!!!!!! I do believe upper management has been getting unreasonably rich rather than helping keep costs lower, but that's another issue across corporate America.

reply to post by wishful1gnorance


There has to be some kind of law somewhere wich people can use to circumvent insurance. I'm sure some politician somewhere wrote somekind of amendment so he wouldn't have to pay up.

reply to post by XLR8R


normally those sort of rules favour the rich since they just have to pay a small ammount but the ammount they are liable for can be unlimited so while you could save money in one way but being drunk and hitting a group of school kids and putting them into 24x7 care for the next 80 years or more could cost more than a few thousand in insurance

Wishful, Sorry for the late reply.

The only solution I have found is to hire a consultant who works with public adjuster to fight for your fair claim amount. of course you will have to give some cash to the consultant but it could be worth it given the circumstances.

I've never tried this with auto insurance but have had good results using that method when dealing with home insurance adjusters. The results were spectacular. It was like having larry H parker fight for me. they got me way more than the insurance company was willing to part with. it took longer but in the end it was worth it.

Originally posted by XLR8R
reply to post by wishful1gnorance

 

There has to be some kind of law somewhere wich people can use to circumvent insurance. I'm sure some politician somewhere wrote somekind of amendment so he wouldn't have to pay up.

They don't pay up, they use their "trust account". You are worth miilions, use your birth certificate, read the fine print which says "Bank Note' on the certificate!!

www.viewzone.com...

And:

www.dailypaul.com...

And:

cherrycrime26.hubpages.com...

You accept for value and return for discharge ALL your debt and bills. Insurance is covered, take out a credit union account to cover ANY accident. Open the account and send a Bill of Exchange to the Treasury to create a million dollar insurance account at the credit union NOT a bank!!!

reply to post by daddio


I just read that article on Birth Certificates and I think I'm going to be severely sick today, I can barely stomach that. I understood that as you are born you come into life owing approximately $40k in debt. Now that the connection has been made to exactly how that happens.... honestly I don't even know where to start. Lets all go cash in.

Originally posted by wishful1gnorance
reply to post by daddio

 

I just read that article on Birth Certificates and I think I'm going to be severely sick today, I can barely stomach that. I understood that as you are born you come into life owing approximately $40k in debt. Now that the connection has been made to exactly how that happens.... honestly I don't even know where to start. Lets all go cash in.

Absolutely. i have been passing this information on to so many people. They all have become nausiated with the "system'. If you just remember that the ONLY way money can be created is by YOUR singature, then YOU control what happens. ALL contracts can be modified. Strike out what you do not agree with and then sign John-Henry: Doe, Agent. Just like that, it is the HUMAN BEING signature. Include "Agent" at the end, it removes corporate liability. Sad world we live in. Sad. Andrew Jackson was a great man as he kicked the freakin Rothschilds out of this country and closed the central bank. If Ron Paul is elected he will do the same thing!!

File your UCC-1 and reclaim your children and nullify "state creation" and ownership!!

a reply to: wishful1gnorance

If it wasn't a racketeering enterprise designed to keep the poor penniless during Christmas each year we'd be refunded moneys we paid through the year with zero claims filed.