To the Skeptics

Explain what happened in Kecksburg, PA.

This incident had definitive American military involvement among other agencies.

By the way, someone should ask the White House about it as well.

Nope.

You are asking 'skeptics' what happened?

I will answer.

I don't know.

A skeptic isn't someone that has to have an answer, a skeptic merely isn't going to take YOUR answer as truth.

so... what happened?

And what is your take on what happened.. And why would it change my notknowing into knowing?

Originally posted by NotReallyASecret
Explain what happened in Kecksburg, PA.

This incident had definitive American military involvement among other agencies.

By the way, someone should ask the White House about it as well.

I don't know which case you are talking about. And just because we are skeptics does not mean we can explain or debunk everything.

Originally posted by Furbs
Nope.

You are asking 'skeptics' what happened?

I will answer.

I don't know.

A skeptic isn't someone that has to have an answer, a skeptic merely isn't going to take YOUR answer as truth.

I'm not providing an answer. All I am doing is mentioning a definitive incident which had government involvement.


At the very least, it is evidence that government cover-ups do exist.

Jkrog authored a great thread here about the Kecksberg incident and, when it comes to genuine open minded scepticism about the UFO subject, NASA's Bernard Haisch has published a good defintion below along with quite an apt statement -his website 'UFO Sceptic' is also well worth a look.

An information site on the UFO phenomenon by and for professional scientists

Skeptic - One who practices the method of suspended judgment, engages in rational and dispassionate reasoning as exemplified by the scientific method, shows willingness to consider alternative explanations without prejudice based on prior beliefs, and who seeks out evidence and carefully scrutinizes its validity

Statement:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f350ba959054.gif[/atsimg]

"I propose that true skepticism is called for today: neither the gullible acceptance of true belief nor the closed-minded rejection of the scoffer masquerading as the skeptic.
One should be skeptical of both the believers and the scoffers. The negative claims of pseudo-skeptics who offer facile explanations must themselves be subject to criticism. If a competent witness reports having seen something tens of degrees of arc in size (as happens) and the scoffer -- who of course was not there -- offers Venus or a high altitude weather balloon as an explanation, the requirement of extraordinary proof for an extraordinary claim falls on the proffered negative claim as well. That kind of approach is also pseudo-science. Moreover just being a scientist confers neither necessary expertise nor sufficient knowledge.
Any scientist who has not read a few serious books and articles presenting actual UFO evidence should out of intellectual honesty refrain from making scientific pronouncements. To look at the evidence and go away unconvinced is one thing. To not look at the evidence and be convinced against it nonetheless is another. That is not science."

Dr. Bernard Haisch
Director for the California Institute for Physics and Astrophysics

UFO Sceptic

Cheers.

As a skeptic (not of alien life, but of visitations here) I do not go around looking for UFO videos to debunk. Therefore, I have no idea what you are talking about, as you have not provided me with anything to agree or disagree with. That being said, due to the lack of information in the thread, I do not believe this incident involved extraterrestrial life forms or technology.

Originally posted by NotReallyASecret

Originally posted by Furbs
Nope.

You are asking 'skeptics' what happened?

I will answer.

I don't know.

A skeptic isn't someone that has to have an answer, a skeptic merely isn't going to take YOUR answer as truth.

I'm not providing an answer. All I am doing is mentioning a definitive incident which had government involvement.


At the very least, it is evidence that government cover-ups do exist.

edit on 4-5-2012 by NotReallyASecret because: (no reason given)

If you don't have an answer, why should anyone else?

Watergate is better evidence that government cover-ups exist.

dec 9 1965 multiple witnesses independent of each other saw something streak through the air, something control landed in a rural area. Police bring in the military, area cleared, something hauled out on a flat bed truck.

lady journalist Leslie kean sued nasa and used the freedom of information act to get documents released, she won and they had to pay her attorney fees as well. they stonewallled as long as possible.

here is a link www.space.com...

Originally posted by karl 12

nor the closed-minded rejection of the scoffer masquerading as the skeptic.

Now THAT is a perfect description

I think I will use that in my signature

UFO skeptic Tim Printy devotes quite a bit of his bi-monthly publication Sunlite to Kecksberg in the November/December 2011 issue.

Even if you disagree with his conclusions he does an admirable job of gathering the available facts...

Sunlite 3_6/November-December 2011

December 9, 1965: The historical record......................................6-8
Searching the woods....................................9
1965 issues explained............................10-11
The Abominable “Space Thing” by Robert Young......................................12-13
Two investigations - Two different results.........................................14-16
The Kecksburg story evolves into legend. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .17-25
The investigation of the Kecksburg
UFO crash by Robert Young....26-31
The Cosmos 96 connection....32-33
Moondust and Lt. Paquette....33
The story they don’t want you to see....34
The Kecksburg UFO crash Columbus connection by Robert Young..................35-37

I will ask the skeptics this:

What about radar reports showing the incredible speeds and directional capabilities of these craft?

This has been testified to over and over again by reputable individuals. We even have the actual radar pictures etc.

And since these have reported since the 1940's, don't tell me they are human technology.

Originally posted by NotReallyASecret
I will ask the skeptics this:

What about radar reports showing the incredible speeds and directional capabilities of these craft?

This has been testified to over and over again by reputable individuals. We even have the actual radar pictures etc.

And since these have reported since the 1940's, don't tell me they are human technology.

edit on 4-5-2012 by NotReallyASecret because: (no reason given)

HUMAN piloted craft.

Just because YOU dont know about the technology (even in the 40's) doesnt mean it doesnt DEFINITELY EXIST.

99% (if not ALL) "UFO's" are MAN-MADE technology with HUMAN pilots.

But that certainly isnt as fun as believing in flying saucers buzzing around being piloted by "aliens" and "martians" and "pleadians" and "Nordics" and "Reptile-people" and whatever other 'outer-galactic' nonsense going around nowadays.

Where does all this nonsense come from?

reply to post by NotReallyASecret

In the 40's radar was not quite as it is today but even today there is some interpretation required.

Anomalous propagation makes "things" jump around and accounts for false returns. Showing things that aren't "there" doing things that shouldn't be done. You can start here, a basic beginning. Radar "mirages", just like optical mirages.
www.radartutorial.eu...

It would more likely be human technology than alien.... If you believe that the race of man could have possibly advanced to space travel in a mere 300 years... considering that modern man has been on the planet for over 800,000 years...

I believe that they found ancient technology buried in egypt and this was the real causes for the world wars..

I do believe in aliens... however I lean more to the idea that the "aliens" we know of are really ancient humans that have survived... we all came from the same garden... just a really reallly long time ago.

double post

Originally posted by NotReallyASecret
I will ask the skeptics this:

What about radar reports showing the incredible speeds and directional capabilities of these craft?

This has been testified to over and over again by reputable individuals. We even have the actual radar pictures etc.

And since these have reported since the 1940's, don't tell me they are human technology.

You're being terribly vague here lumping thousands of reports together. If you want to talk about Kecksburg, we can talk about Kecksburg, but just claiming we have "radar pictures" (We do???) isn't saying anything definitive enough to argue about. It's like saying: "Debunk this! Many people have been abducted by aliens!"

My answer is: WTF are you talking about? Do you have a subject?

About Kecksburg, are you actually familiar with the incident? Have you read "The Kecksburg UFO Incident"? Have you seen "Kecksburg, the untold story"? How about "Secrets of UFOs: The Kecksburg Crash"? Are you aware of the NASA files on this incident? Do you know what the major theories are as relates to Kecksburg? Here's a little summary here with lots of references.

I suspect that if you could show some familiarity with the incident you are talking about it would be a lot easier to get a conversation started about it. You can't expect much from this "throw it on the wall and let's see what sticks" approach to baiting skeptics.

reply to post by NotReallyASecret


Sorry but skeptics are crucial to what we're doing here. There's no division, if it wasn't for the awareness of the skeptics we'd be drowned in unsolved cases and a lot more unsure than we currently are about things.

I guess you meant shills? Because to properly research this field you need to be equally open minded and skeptic.

As a skeptic, i do not know.
Haven´t got the foggiest.

That being said, skeptics are also subject to the rule of "bad apple",
i personally think that the PROBABILITY of ET life is very high,
yet i require proof , absolute proof before i´ll say yes.
YT videos don´t count, EVER!
Eyewitness reports, dodgy at best.
What is the background of those people?
What is their medical history?
HOW can i be certain that they are not just some yahoos?

Being a former military-what-ever or former moon-astronaut does NOT make
you anymore sane.

"Crazy" does not care about your age, place or social status.

Yeah, personally, i believe that the concept of ET is valid,
yet some proof WOULD be nice.

Originally posted by NotReallyASecret
Explain what happened in Kecksburg, PA.

This incident had definitive American military involvement among other agencies.

Who says it's definite? Combined with your fantasy freak outlook & just believing what you read by those trying to earn a living brings you to this boring arrogant attitude!!