Societies that Vanished in Mystery

When I see questions like this, it shocks me how many people never even fathom the idea that they probably left the planet.

reply to post by dreamingawake


Thank you for sharing this story, being from Illinois Ive never heard of the Cahokia Mounds which is located in southern illinois, I live near Chicago (which is North)... Becasue of this story, I'm now looking forward to take the 250 mile trip down to southern illinois to check out the historic mounds...

S&F

reply to post by itsthetooth


Carlos castenedas teacher Don Juan said the mayan peoples did leave this planet, they had the ability to move into the paralell dimensions physically, that is where the majority of the civilisation went.
He also said they would come back one day, en masse, this is what i think the 2012 timemarker is about.

Originally posted by itsthetooth
When I see questions like this, it shocks me how many people never even fathom the idea that they probably left the planet.

I'm with you on that! Atlanteans because of they seem to match common cultural "myths" of humanoid aliens...or has been noted Mayans. Or even the ones that came whether masked or out in the open never left as said by some researchers/writers. Fun stuff.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Echtelion
That's a bit far-fetched, although possible. The last time there was enough ice to bridge North America with Europe was tens of thousands of years ago... so it's got nothing to do with what is known of European cultures today. It's way more likely that most Natives came from Asia, and they also share the same physical features than Mongolian/Kyrgyz/Korean people.
Arrowheads designs aren't a strong sign of cultural identity.... they often have very close similarities, from one place on the planet to another.

That debate is back in the forefront, though, and the Bering Lands Bridge doesn't account for the antiquity of a lot of sites (nor Anishnaabe oral tradition, btw). Here's the discussion on a recent thread I started:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Meltzer is hanging on, but more and more are coming over to the Atlantic hypothesis.
Self edit to say that nobody is suggesting the trek over Beringia didn't happen, simply that it may not have been exclusive, and it may not have been first.

edit on 3-5-2012 by JohnnyCanuck because: ...just because...ok?

Exactly, there's connected, cultural for example, evidence of people's coming from Siberia across the bearing straight. I believe at least some of the research said that they were the original Clovis instead of the Euro connection. So, indeed it did happen but projected to have happened after the Euro migrations.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
reply to post by dreamingawake

 

There's a very good fictional book written by Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child that addresses the vanishing of the Anasazi. It's called Thunderhead and is a great read if you enjoy speculative adventure stories. Preston and Child are known for their impeccable research and the way they described archeaological sites like Chaco Canyon and the other cliff dwellings was incredible.

This summer we plan to visit the cliff dwellings...I can't wait.

S&F for a great topic.

Cool, thanks for the info. Hope you get the share the visit and have fun/be safe of course.

drought
disease
war

Look at the Pacific current, as in ocean current.It goes south on North America, thus if they came from Asia, they would have had easy sailing till they found themselves at the equator, then it crosses westerly back over to Asia.Thus the Aztec, Maya and all the central southern mexico civilizations probably got off the current there and started their societies.

Interesting thread.

One issue: on the Olmec civilization, let's be specific. The giant stone heads depict Africans -- its more than obvious.

Its annoying when people resort to indistinct statements, like "features of non native origin".

Just say it out loud -- they were African!

I'd say a lot of prehistoric civs went because of disease or famine. But I'd also say a third major one is socio-political disenfranchisement. If any remaining attachments grow weak and the opportunity to go somewhere else was there, people just simply picked-up and left.

Old civs had their taxes and tributes too, and it's likely they weren't always fair. If being part of a social structure returns less benefit than heading out on your own and picking berries and hunting independently out in the woods, etc... Guess what? Now imagine that a lot of people suddenly get a clue. And just how powerful is a ruler without any subjects? (Imagine there being a day of planned sacrifice, and some higher ups complaining: "Where is everybody?")

Simple as that.

The answer to this question of abandonment of earth is pretty simple: they left. How come people leave high school? Home come people leave a perfectly good home town? How come people leave earth - death? They're done here, as earth is interesting but working against the forces of nature to simply survive gets old quick and there is only so much to do here.

I'm confused why people assume that the remnants left behind are both decipherable AND the totality of everything representing the people who lived in one area or another. If someone went through my house I know for a fact they would have no idea what half the stuff I have created is for - never figure it out. Now if I took a few items from even that undecipherable mix then the conclusions drawn could actually be dangerous in their wrongness. So thinking you know everything about a people by looking at there left over crap is absurd.

Folks, individuals and groups, come to earth for all sorts of reasons, including exile. When their earth time is up, they leave; going home or elsewhere in the totality of consciousness we quaintly refer to as the Universe. Some leave via dropping a body and may or may not leave behind the remains, and some leave in other ways. Some folks actually move into those places abandoned by the original creators - pyramids in Egypt being one such place of lots of different folks inhabiting the co-cop knows as Giza.

When the party is over, people leave, not that hard to figure out.

Dont forget Gaia's most memorable civilization of all; Atlantis

I actually visited The Anasazi place when i was 17. It was pretty astonishing, and from what I remember, they abandoned the place due to war/battles.

Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
reply to post by dreamingawake

 

Well, echoes of the Mississippian Culture exist all over the place. When the Spanish encountered the last vestiges of Mississippean culture in Florida, they reported that the elite referred to their subjects as 'stinkards'. I always figured that the ordinary Joe, who worked his butt off supporting the elites and their building projects, took a look over yonder and saw woods full of game, rivers full of fish...figured "Naw, I'm outta here!" and melted into the woods. En masse.

A similar thing probably also happened with the Maya and their dissolution - but some cities kept going up to and beyond the Spanish arrival

Just a curious note, There is some conjecture that the Maya where in Georgia for some time. It seems a "find" does resemble Mayan Construction. Others do indicate that is wrong, but they do suggests at the same time, there is some study needed regardless. So at the least, it is unique building, not generally associated with Georgia.

www.mountainx.com...

Another group that seemingly vanished.

An interesting view of this topic. A Collective of the Lost, so to speak..

Ciao

Shane

P.S. Would Atlantians, (if that is a word), fall into that catagory, or would they fall into a group with Pompeii.

reply to post by dreamingawake


I'll check it out and do a little research on this.

reply to post by krazykanuk

No problem about the correction. I threw my post together rather fast. I surprised myself by all the information I kept stumbling upon searching for something I had trouble finding. The basic idea I was communicating was that there were traces of a plant that only grew in South America in Egyptian mummies. That suggests some type of possible trade routes as a possibility in my opinion.

I've wondered what traces of any advanced civilization would be left after tens of thousands of years. I doubt much of our civilization would be visible after 100,000 years without humans. If humans with our modern brain intellect have been around over 100,000 years, it might lead one to believe there could have been a few advanced civilizations during that time that we do not know about even if their population was a lot smaller than present.

I did a search for an old thread mentioning a possible land bridge that some believe is over a million years old. It's possible the causes are natural and as recent as about 12,000 years ago. The last post I read suggested a reasonable explanation for the bridge could have been related to a sudden catastrophic rise in global sea levels of about 60 feet and there could have been huge waves associated with the global flooding.
thread mentioning this
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I'm thinking many people would have described such an event as a global flood especially since many civilizations would have had their cities near the coast.

Note: I'm speculating about the 60 foot rise in global sea levels. It was the number I read in the other thread. There was an extremely large lake in northern North America that was blocked by continental ice. It was suddenly released sometime around 12,000 years ago I believe. That may not have been enough water to raise sea levels 60 feet. The so called global flood source of water I've heard about came about from oceans of water deep within the Earth getting released in a chain reaction along the mid atlantic ridges and other ridges across the globe. Anyway sea levels are I've heard anywhere from 100 feet to 100 meters higher than they were during the last ice age. Many civilizations have ruins underwater.

This is the ancient bridge I was referring to. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't ancient.

www.hinduism.co.za...&%20Sri%20Lanka

Ever play the "Age of Empires" franchise presented to us by Microsoft? You'll find that civilizations disappear due to conquest. Weaker civs are absorbed.

There is no ancient civ surviving to this day. Correct me if I'm wrong. The tale they leave in the archaeological record hints at what they once had, sometimes millions strong, but there is always another civ that moves in and takes over.

If not conquest, then natural disaster. Same result. Survivors are absorbed into the existing societal structure.

Thanks for the thought provoking OP, it was well done. Kudos.

reply to post by Hanslune


If by random dots you mean many of the most sacred and ancient sights on the planet aligning with each other to form some sort of grid (possibly electromagnetic) and having these align all over the world? Then sure you can, no problem buddy.

When you mention traces left behind from the building of pyramids you are clutching at straws. They would have needed more people sharpening those pieces of copper than they would have had builders or laborers. A copper saw deteriorates about a third of the way through ONE of the TWO and A HALF MILLION blocks you find at giza. It's fine that we can 'fit it in' although this logic is completely rubbish. I can understand your skepticism although subscribing to the official explanation of the pyramids is historical suicide.

I'm not into the 'you can find anything in anything' type opinion, I think that is a total rationalistic cop out that relies heavily on our 'logic' which these days doesn't seem so logical.

Look into it man

I find these "lost" civilzations fascinating, I actually think today we are at a similar point... unfortunately its going to be our own stupidity that will confine us to history, I wonder what future civilizations will make of what they uncover about us ?
Excellent post, very well researched and presented, thank you Dreamingawake !

Originally posted by Echtelion
reply to post by dreamingawake

 

However, The Clovis in a way are controversial because of a few different issues. Spear heads were found on the East Coast that are close in design of European people's design as well as how they had their cave dwellings. Which has lead to theory of people's crossing from Europe, the ice age bridge to North America-Atlantic Ocean well before people's crossed the Bering Straights.

That's a bit far-fetched, although possible. The last time there was enough ice to bridge North America with Europe was tens of thousands of years ago... so it's got nothing to do with what is known of European cultures today. It's way more likely that most Natives came from Asia, and they also share the same physical features than Mongolian/Kyrgyz/Korean people.

Arrowheads designs aren't a strong sign of cultural identity.... they often have very close similarities, from one place on the planet to another.

edit on 3/5/12 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)

It may not be as far fetched as you seem to think.

www.bostonglobe.com...

Offered for your consideration.

As for the disappearances of these varying groups, I would think we would find many reasons for this to occur.

As noted, Wars, Famines, Pestilences, and the various earth changes, Volcanoes, Weather, Floods obviously would be factors. These, fitted to the timeline in which these Groups inhabited the "region" should be the logical place to start.

The difficult part is there are so many varying periods of time to consider.

Ciao

Shane

P.S. Seems Johnny pointed to the Euro Connection already.