Of course there are stars!

reply to post by wmd_2008

Oops, my silly. Well of course they can see it when looking through the Earths atmosphere, that's what makes the Moon visible to us on Earth. Lets try that when looking AWAY from the Earth, not towards it. And a crop of the Moon that I can prove was taken close to the crescent Earth will not do either. And I'll double the prize too!
(2x1 dollar lottery tickets. Hey, ya never know, someone has to win...)

Originally posted by GaryN
reply to post by wmd_2008

 

Oops, my silly. Well of course they can see it when looking through the Earths atmosphere, that's what makes the Moon visible to us on Earth.

Good one care to prove that!!!

Originally posted by GaryN
reply to post by wmd_2008

 

Oops, my silly. Well of course they can see it when looking through the Earths atmosphere, that's what makes the Moon visible to us on Earth. Lets try that when looking AWAY from the Earth, not towards it. And a crop of the Moon that I can prove was taken close to the crescent Earth will not do either. And I'll double the prize too!
(2x1 dollar lottery tickets. Hey, ya never know, someone has to win...)

I've heard your argument before, but I never really understood it. What is so magical about the earth's atmosphere that make previously invisible photons visible?...

...Or, actually I suppose my question should be this:
Why do you say the photons NOT seen through Earth's atmosphere are invisible in the first place? I see sunlight and shadows in pictures from space, such as this one:


Which makes me wonder why you say I should not be able to see photons while in space (without the aid of viewing them through Earth's atmosphere). If that's true, then why are there shadows and sunlight seen in that above image? Why are the photons reflecting from that Soyuz spacecraft visible in space, but the photons reflected due to earthshine NOT visible?

I should have known that there would be some goal post moving, copout.

Originally posted by GaryN
Well of course they can see it when looking through the Earths atmosphere, that's what makes the Moon visible to us on Earth.

Huh? In what Universe does that make any logical sense? As SGiP asked, what makes Earthshine any different that other light reflected off other objects? It's all just reflected light. Nothing more, nothing less. Our atmosphere has nothing to do with it.

reply to post by jra


jra --

It's not just earthshine. It's starlight, too.

GaryN...correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you claim that NO starlight can be seen in space, and I think you claim (again, correct me if I'm misrepresenting your assertions) that even the Sun can't be seen in space -- or at least you claim that it can't be photographed.

I believe you have previously claimed that the only way starlight becomes visible is after passing through Earh's atmosphere.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
GaryN...correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you claim that NO starlight can be seen in space, and I think you claim (again, correct me if I'm misrepresenting your assertions) that even the Sun can't be seen in space -- or at least you claim that it can't be photographed.

Well that's incredibly silly to put it mildly. Has anyone shown him this video yet?



The stars look visible to me.

@jra

Well that's incredibly silly to put it mildly. Has anyone shown him this video yet?

Yeah, through the earths atmosphere again...

@Soylent Green Is People

...Or, actually I suppose my question should be this:
Why do you say the photons NOT seen through Earth's atmosphere are invisible in the first place? I see sunlight and shadows in pictures from space, such as this one:

When you see hard shadows like that, it means they are using artificial lighting. One of the bits of evidence that makes me question the lighting conditions in space is that in most of those beautiful shots from EVA astronauts, it is difficult to tell the light source direction, the shadows are so faint. This is because most of the light up there is from airglow, its all around, a very diffuse light. If you look on this page you will see an image where they have converted from near IR to green. Different gasses emit at different wavelengths, and most of the light up there is from nitrogen and oxygen combining and giving off a photon, by way of UV bombardment.
With a point source light, as the Sun should be out there, there should also be specular light, a hotspot, a brigh point where the centre of the Sun aligns with the centre of a curved surface. I've never seen that effect.
Airglow
en.wikipedia.org...

jra --

It's not just earthshine. It's starlight, too.

GaryN...correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you claim that NO starlight can be seen in space, and I think you claim (again, correct me if I'm misrepresenting your assertions) that even the Sun can't be seen in space -- or at least you claim that it can't be photographed.

I believe you have previously claimed that the only way starlight becomes visible is after passing through Earh's atmosphere.

Starlight too, unless you look through Earths atmosphere, which they are doing when any shot has a crescent Earth in it. I can show you photos very carefully set up to try and hide the fact that the shuttle or ISS was close to the crescent, like this one.


But another shot tells the story:


Have a look at the first one at full resolution:
spaceflight.nasa.gov...
Can you tell the light direction? Also, if you enlarge the Moon, what colour would you say it was? Not a trick question, just wondering if my eyes/monitor see the same as other folk.

Anyway, the answer to this all is not far away. I E-Mailed the Urthecaste camera people, and they said that when viewing conditions were bad for seeing Earth from the ISS they were going to spin the camera around to look into space. Apparently their camera is capable of this amazing bit of high tech wizardry, while NASAs external HD video cameras can not perform such a complex action yet. Can't wait to see the Moon, planets, conjunctions, stars, without the pesky Earth always hogging the limelight! They won't be able to view the Sun though, no filters planned.

reply to post by GaryN


How does hubble get pictures of stars or even that shot of the moon taken a few years ago or how did he get a picture of our local star.



Nikon D2Xs with a 10.5mm fisheye lens at f/11, 1/500, and ISO 200.

You also see hard shadows on earth it DOESN'T mean artificial lighting

Consider your shadow's edge The sun is the largest object in our solar system, yet Earth’s distance from it makes it appear relatively small in our sky. On a sunny day, your shadow has a hard edge. That defined edge to your shadow is created because the sunlight hitting you is coming from a single direction. Another way to say it is that you have a hard shadow because the sun’s rays are parallel when they hit you.

Photographic Lighting

YOUR lack of knowledge is astounding!

Originally posted by GaryN

...Or, actually I suppose my question should be this:
Why do you say the photons NOT seen through Earth's atmosphere are invisible in the first place? I see sunlight and shadows in pictures from space, such as this one:

When you see hard shadows like that, it means they are using artificial lighting. ...

So, does that mean you are saying objects in space are impossible to see from out in space unless someone uses artificial light? Would the moon be invisible from space unless someone shined an artificial light on it?

Furthermore, What's the difference between the sun shining on something or artificial light shining on something? Why are the photons from artificial light so special that it could illuminate objects in space, but the photons from the Sun can't?

Can someone explain why we would see color in any photo taken from the moon? If there is no atmosphere, then how is it possible to take color pictures? Also, any photos taken from the ISS would be beyond the boundaries of atmospheric refraction for color to be possible, would it not?

Originally posted by totallackey
Can someone explain why we would see color in any photo taken from the moon? If there is no atmosphere, then how is it possible to take color pictures? Also, any photos taken from the ISS would be beyond the boundaries of atmospheric refraction for color to be possible, would it not?

Why do you think its impossible Science education has went right down the toilet it seems.

Are you another person trying to claim light is effected by a vacuum.

Here is a video of a bell in a Bell Jar the air is drawn out to create a vacuum to prove sound cant travel through a vacuum.

Now using you logic the bell should become B&W in the vacuum

reply to post by wmd_2008

Why do you think its impossible Science education has went right down the toilet it seems. Are you another person trying to claim light is effected by a vacuum. Here is a video of a bell in a Bell Jar the air is drawn out to create a vacuum to prove sound cant travel through a vacuum. Now using you logic the bell should become B&W in the vacuum.

It was a simple question and I see the state of your science education offered nothing in terms of a real answer. By the way, at least in your case, it seems etiquette education went right down the toilet.

A) I do not know, so I do not know if it is impossible. My question had NOTHING to do with VACUUM. Please reread my post.The answer you provided would seem to indicate it is impossible for color pictures to be taken outside of Earth's atmosphere. The only reason why we see the colors we see is because of it. Perhaps that is why you posted that silly answer.
B) You have to attend remedial reading if this is the state of your logic.

reply to post by totallackey


Well WHY do you think you cant get a colour photograph in space or on the Moon what is your logic to that

The Earths atmosphere has nothing to do with that, that's WHY I said what I said about the bell in a vacuum!!!

This will explain how it works

Colour

reply to post by wmd_2008


I understand the elements present in our atmosphere provide a filter through which our eyes detect the color of objects as each object reflects the sunlight from it. If I was on Mars, grass may not be green.

You are trying to tell me grass would be green on the moon?

Originally posted by totallackey
reply to post by wmd_2008

 

I understand the elements present in our atmosphere provide a filter through which our eyes detect the color of objects as each object reflects the sunlight from it. If I was on Mars, grass may not be green.

You are trying to tell me grass would be green on the moon?

It may be an ever-so-slightly different green due to the haze of our atmosphere, but it would still be green.

The light reflecting off of grass is the part of the electromagnetic spectrum that we call "green". Whether that radiation of the electromagnetic spectrum travels though our atmosphere or through a vacuum (or near-vacuum), the portion of that spectrum we see would still be the green portion.

So -- Yes, grass would be green on the moon. The American flag is still red, white, and blue when viewed on the moon. The gold-colored mylar insulation on the LEM still looks gold when viewed on the Moon.

There is no magical reason for the electromagnetic radiation we call visible light coming from your grass to your eyes to change just because it travels through air before reaching your eyes.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

Thank you. I appreciate your answer. Now that you stated it would be slightly different (I know why you had to use the word slightly), I take it you understand there is no difference between the red, white, and blues on the flag. There is no difference in the Earth colors as photographed from the moon. I find this highly troubling. I know the atmosphere diffraction here on Earth causes a great deal of effect on how we perceive color. I think the photos were altered, just as the photos were altered from Hubble. The only reason we see the colors we see when we are looking at the nebulae, galaxies, dust clouds, and stars, is because of the Earth's atmosphere. If we were outside of it, we would not see these colors. The colors are painted in before release.

reply to post by totallackey


The colours you perceive have nothing to do with the atmosphere whatsoever. It's simply down to the three types of cone cells in your eyes. Nothing more.

reply to post by BagBing


Well, that is simply not true. The light proceeds through different filters, prior to arriving at my eyes. Your statement would mean that grass would be green in a smoke filled room.

reply to post by totallackey


Assuming the smoke isn't too dense to actually see, then grass would be green in a smoke filled room! What colour do you think it would be?

reply to post by BagBing


Oh my...of course grass is green no matter where it was at...If I was to see what I knew was a blade of grass in a smoke filled room, then yes, I would know the color was green if quizzed. This is the reason I can pass a written driver's test when showed an eight-sided sign and the question is, "What color is the sign?" I know the answer is red.

This does nothing in supporting your assertion the only reason I see specific colors is because of the cones in my eyes and that perceived color has nothing to do with the Earth's atmosphere. You need to reboot.