Daniel; What is an abomination of desolation?

reply to post by mikeprodigy

But also to resist attempts to stamp out the church. That's what Revelation ch13 etc. is describing.
There were martyrs in the reign of Diocletian, three centuries after the church had been first established.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Thanks for the info.
That's what they were doing all through history to stop the spread of the Christ.

reply to post by mikeprodigy

Yes, exactly.
And that's what Revelation is getting at.

The whole point of Idols is all these so called 'gods' are Archons, off planet inorganic beings who have difficulty penetrating into the earth realm and the psyches of human beings - which is why they find it much easier to attach themselves to an object and why they are more at home in caves ect - they are one and the same as the jinn, faeries etc and more lately the greys..

YHWH is just the source Archon - who finds it necessary for some reason to use the vapours of roasting flesh to maintain a presence in this realm.

All you are dealing with here is a squabble between rival Archon factions for control of the human race YHWH and SATAN.

reply to post by JohhnyBGood

This doesn't really work as an explanation of Daniel's intended meaning, which is what i was after.

I can't remember where i read it but after the Romans had destroyed the Temple and plowed the Temple area and forbade the Jews to enter Jerusalem on pain of death, the land of Israel lost its fertility.

When the Jews started to return to Israel (after the Diaspora in May 1948) the land started t become fertile again.

Lately when Israeli settlements had been taken over by Palestinians the land became unfertile again.

Could this Abomination of Desolation literally be linked to the worship of God? It mentions in the BIble the land will not produce its harvests if the people don't keep God's commandments.

Could the A of D be a literal talking statue that is put in the wing of the New Temple? And this statue is the copy of a man, in fact I believe there is already a version of this statue with wings.
Maybe of a man of the Davidic lineage, who comes as the Messiah. In fact there are potentially 400 men that are possibles for the King of Israel living at this moment.

Afterall the Jews have already claimed that Simon Bar Kochba was the messiah after he revolted against the Romans in AD 132.

In fact this has been inbuilt into the design of the Earth by God. Worship God and the land is fertile. Think of the Green man carved into many medieval churches. He is not a pagan God, it is the symbol of singing and praising God leads to a fertile land.
King Arthur had choirs that sang 24 hours.
Nehemiah had the singers and the Levites paid after they hadn't been for decades.
When the Temple of Solomon was dedicated to God by the tumpets and singers, God's shekinah glory came down in a cloud. It was not the sacrifices that God responded to, it was the singing and music.
Singing to God is the Holy Grail, the Sword in the Stone. A nd a weapon against the enemy; Satan.

Fertile ground is also high in nutrition and boosts our immune systems, so we are kept in good health. It's all interlinked. This used to be known but is now only known by those in Secret socieites and those who would use this, against those who Love God.

I know this after many years of research and following the breadcrumbs.

BTW I have read a book called Solomon's Temple by a Masonic author. I would like to blow a warning trumpet over this book. In it the author has an opinion that humans were sacrificed in the Temple, he believes that in fact children were sacrificed in that Temple.

Are they are actually believing that to dedicate this future Temple they will need to sacrifice children????!!!
Very worrying.

I can't remember where i read it but after the Romans had destroyed the Temple and plowed the Temple area and forbade the Jews to enter Jerusalem on pain of death, the land of Israel lost its fertility.

When the Jews started to return to Israel (after the Diaspora in May 1948) the land started t become fertile again.

Lately when Israeli settlements had been taken over by Palestinians the land became unfertile again.

Could this Abomination of Desolation literally be linked to the worship of God? It mentions in the BIble the land will not produce its harvests if the people don't keep God's commandments.

Could the A of D be a literal talking statue that is put in the wing of the New Temple? And this statue is the copy of a man, in fact I believe there is already a version of this statue with wings.
Maybe of a man of the Davidic lineage, who comes as the Messiah. In fact there are potentially 400 men that are possibles for the King of Israel living at this moment.

Afterall the Jews have already claimed that Simon Bar Kochba was the messiah after he revolted against the Romans in AD 132.

In fact this has been inbuilt into the design of the Earth by God. Worship God and the land is fertile. Think of the Green man carved into many medieval churches. He is not a pagan God, it is the symbol of singing and praising God leads to a fertile land.
King Arthur had choirs that sang 24 hours.
Nehemiah had the singers and the Levites paid after they hadn't been for decades.
When the Temple of Solomon was dedicated to God by the tumpets and singers, God's shekinah glory came down in a cloud. It was not the sacrifices that God responded to, it was the singing and music.
Singing to God is the Holy Grail, the Sword in the Stone. A nd a weapon against the enemy; Satan.

Fertile ground is also high in nutrition and boosts our immune systems, so we are kept in good health. It's all interlinked. This used to be known but is now only known by those in Secret socieites and those who would use this, against those who Love God.

I know this after many years of research and following the breadcrumbs.

BTW I have read a book called Solomon's Temple by a Masonic author. I would like to blow a warning trumpet over this book. In it the author has an opinion that humans were sacrificed in the Temple, he believes that in fact children were sacrificed in that Temple.

Are they are actually believing that to dedicate this future Temple they will need to sacrifice children????!!!
Very worrying.

I can't remember where i read it but after the Romans had destroyed the Temple and plowed the Temple area and forbade the Jews to enter Jerusalem on pain of death, the land of Israel lost its fertility.

When the Jews started to return to Israel (after the Diaspora in May 1948) the land started t become fertile again.

Lately when Israeli settlements had been taken over by Palestinians the land became unfertile again.

Could this Abomination of Desolation literally be linked to the worship of God? It mentions in the BIble the land will not produce its harvests if the people don't keep God's commandments.

Could the A of D be a literal talking statue that is put in the wing of the New Temple? And this statue is the copy of a man, in fact I believe there is already a version of this statue with wings.
Maybe of a man of the Davidic lineage, who comes as the Messiah. In fact there are potentially 400 men that are possibles for the King of Israel living at this moment.

Afterall the Jews have already claimed that Simon Bar Kochba was the messiah after he revolted against the Romans in AD 132.

In fact this has been inbuilt into the design of the Earth by God. Worship God and the land is fertile. Think of the Green man carved into many medieval churches. He is not a pagan God, it is the symbol of singing and praising God leads to a fertile land.
King Arthur had choirs that sang 24 hours.
Nehemiah had the singers and the Levites paid after they hadn't been for decades.
When the Temple of Solomon was dedicated to God by the tumpets and singers, God's shekinah glory came down in a cloud. It was not the sacrifices that God responded to, it was the singing and music.
Singing to God is the Holy Grail, the Sword in the Stone. A nd a weapon against the enemy; Satan.

Fertile ground is also high in nutrition and boosts our immune systems, so we are kept in good health. It's all interlinked. This used to be known but is now only known by those in Secret socieites and those who would use this, against those who Love God.

I know this after many years of research and following the breadcrumbs.

BTW I have read a book called Solomon's Temple by a Masonic author. I would like to blow a warning trumpet over this book. In it the author has an opinion that humans were sacrificed in the Temple, he believes that in fact children were sacrificed in that Temple.

Are they are actually believing that to dedicate this future Temple they will need to sacrifice children????!!!
Very worrying.

reply to post by DISRAELI


i've always thought that the new abomination of desolation

would be the revelation of the 1st human clone

already an adult, as a proof of concept
thus rendering the human race obsolete [in the view of TCOTBIP, of course]

fits with the man of sin and your def. of desolation [laying waste to/blowing the minds of many]

reply to post by AriesJedi

So you're voting for "desolation" in a more literal sense, ie loss of fertility.
However, the phrase "abomination of desolation" was also used (first used?) about the image set up by Antiochus Epiphanes, and I haven't read that infertility of the land was one of the consequences there.
That's one reason why I still prefer my more metaphorical sense (reaction to the existence of idolatry).

Anyway, that man must be wrong about human seacrifice in the Temple.
The point of the story of Abraham and Isaac was the rejection of human sacrifice, and the practice of child sacrifice would not have been criticised so fiercely later if it had been part of the norm of worship in the Temple.
A king like Manasseh certainly sacrificed children, and got criticised for it, but even he did it in the "valley of the son of Hinnom", as something distinct from the Temple religion.

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

I suspect you may be taking "abomination" in the more popular sense, ie "something horrible".
But in the Old Testament sense it relates very specifically to an idolatrous object of worship or something associated with idolatry.
So a human clone would not necessarily be an "abomination" just by being a clone.
Also, for me, the "desolation" is not just about "having your mind blown", but "having your mind blown by an act of idolatry which obstructs your worship of God".
The focus needs to be on the theme of idolatry- that's what the Daniel and Matthew passages have in mind.

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

Anyway, I've never understood why people assume there would be anything "non-human" about a clone.
A clone would simply being a human being with the same genetic material as another human being. We get exactly the same thing with identical twins. Is there anything non-human about them?.

reply to post by DISRAELI


the original AoD was the place ment of a statue of jupiter ammon
a "false" [ersatz] god in substitution of the "real" one

my proposed clone [ersatz human] would already be a world leader when the revelation was made
the shock and awe would be very great
especially among the religious who would of course see the antichrist
[and just because it wouldn't freak you or me out, doesn't mean it wouldn't do so for most others]
cloning could be sold as a means of immortality as well

there's your worshipful aspect [never mind the afterlife, when you could live "forever"]

the differences between naturally conceived humans vs test-tube and cloned humans
are subtle and esoteric in nature,
the subject of a whole other thread, and derailing as well

just throwing an old speculation out there
carry on

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger

All right, that gets closer. Now that there is an additional reason besides just being a clone.
But this world leader would also have to be controlling the church and banning the more traditional worship, before my understanding of "desolation" would be complete.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
What is an “abomination of desolation”?

desolation - abandonment... when the elite go down into the giant city-size 5-star suite type bunker palaces...

and leave the surface dwellers to contend with a massive ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE viral outbreak...

which leaves the crumbling remnants of society in absolute desolation...

what could be more abominable than a millions of human bodies rising from the dead.. eyes rotting while they stand... perusing living humans...

i know most people want to think of it as something more pretty or "common sensical" or "less ficiton-esque" .. but it's pretty much the absolute level of population reduction...

reply to post by prevenge

Your're commenting on the thread title while ignoring the rest of the OP.
The objest of the exercise was to think about what Daniel meant by the phrase- and Daniel would not have been following the guidance of Hollywood movies.
In the Old testament, as I was pointing out, the word "abomination" is not about what humans think is horrible, but about what God thinks is horrible, and what God "abominates", apparently, is idolatry.
Which means that the "Abomination" in Daniel needs to be something idolatrous, offered as an abject of worship.
And I was arguing that the "desolation" in this phrase is not about loss of human contact, but about loss of contact with God (based on the original use of the term in the episode revolving around Antiochus Epiphanes).

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by prevenge

 

Your're commenting on the thread title while ignoring the rest of the OP.
The objest of the exercise was to think about what Daniel meant by the phrase- and Daniel would not have been following the guidance of Hollywood movies.
In the Old testament, as I was pointing out, the word "abomination" is not about what humans think is horrible, but about what God thinks is horrible, and what God "abominates", apparently, is idolatry.
Which means that the "Abomination" in Daniel needs to be something idolatrous, offered as an abject of worship.
And I was arguing that the "desolation" in this phrase is not about loss of human contact, but about loss of contact with God (based on the original use of the term in the episode revolving around Antiochus Epiphanes).

everything in the bible is metaphoric parable.
what is to come by human hands is being done so via masonic bibles in every masonic temple.
the tribulation will be carried out scientifically.
it's not god that takes from hollywood movies - but hollywood movies that take from ancient scripture that talks about this very phenomenon.
disagree all you want...
when it happens.... probably blamed on al quaeda using biological warfare ....
but when it happens...
remember our little discussion here.....

it's all being carried out by man's hand.. under god's (the god of the bible)'s...word.

reply to post by prevenge

It's openly acknowledged that Hollywood movies are written according to Studio expectations of what people are interested in watching (and paying for), whether it be romance or horror.
If these movies are based on what people want to believe, and people then start to base their beliefs on these movies, it's all getting rather circular, isn't it?

Since the writers of scripture obviously did not know about Hollywood movies, they can't be part of the intended meaning. We're obliged to go back to the texts.

reply to post by DISRAELI

In this OP, I've been using a rather metaphorical understanding of "desolation".
In justification of that, I want to draw attention to the similarly metaphorical usage in Ezra ch9 vv3-4.
The context is that Ezra has just heard that the peoples of Israel "have not separated themselves from the peoples of the land with their abominations". Instead they have been conducting mixed marriages with the daughters of these peoples.
Ezra then sits "astonished"or "appalled" or some other translation; anyway, it is the same word that is elsewhere translated as "desolated".
This context is important because it is the same situation that I've been talking about; the realisation of having been "let down" on a matter of loyalty to God, with a failure to avoid "abominations".
Similarly in the case of Antiochus Epiphanes the people would have felt "let down" by the Temple worship itself, which had gone over to the "other side".
This is the kind of reaction which I would expect an "abomination of desolation" to create.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Revelation 13:14-15

"14And [the second Beast] deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

AoD = Idol of the image of the beast.

The image is not only a false idol but is given power to speak, kill, and cause all to receive the mark of the beast that no man might buy or sell without the mark, the name, or the number of the beasts name.

What do you think?