London 2012: Missiles may be placed at residential flats

London 2012: Missiles may be placed at residential flats

www.bbc.co.uk

The Ministry of Defence is considering placing surface-to-air missiles on residential flats during the Olympics.

An east London estate, where 700 people live, has received leaflets saying a "Higher Velocity Missile system" could be placed on a water tower.

A spokesman said the MoD had not yet decided whether to deploy ground based air defence systems during the event.

But estate resident Brian Whelan said firing the missiles "would shower debris across the east end of London".

(visit the link for the full news article)


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This has to be a thrilling prospect: let's welcome the Olympics and here is your complimentary battalion of police and roof-top missile battery for your flat.

I don't think anyone these days will deny that this type of air defense is now a necessity. I just wonder how effective they would be against a small threat like a UAV or "quadcopter" carrying a little package right into an open air stadium?

Apparently there's also some concern that a missile firing would leave a shower of debris, which raises the spectre of a false-trigger should some joker use a small RC or UAV plane as a joke - or as Charlie Stross says in his blog post, Olympics 2012: A Bruce Schneier Moment:

f one of those things is ever fired, either in anger or by accident, it'll shower white-hot supersonic shrapnel across the extremely crowded residential heart of a city.

Hmm. It's a good thing I'm a novelist who dabbles in technothrillers, not a terrorist. If I was a terrorist I'd be licking my lips, trying to work out how to trigger a missile launch. Using a motor-powered model aircraft, free flight design (no radio controls to jam) aimed vaguely towards the Olympic stadium, with a nice radio beacon or some sort of infra-red source (a flare, perhaps) on its tail to make it easy to track? These missiles will be the close-in option, because we know the RAF will already be flying combat air patrols over London; they won't have much time to evaluate threats or respond intelligently. So launch from the back of a panel van, like the IRA mortar attacks on places like Heathrow or 10 Downing Street. The twist in the scheme would be to aim past the missile launchers along a vector that would attract a hail of hypervelocity missile launches in the direction of, say, a DLR station at rush hour.

www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

The issue of debris would mostly be from the destroyed target and missile.

The launch, itself, would create little in the way of debris other than the rocket-blast from the motor (which is only an issue at the launch site - and would pose practically no risk to the streets below).

Ideally, they would down a suspicious craft before it ever made it over populated areas - both to reduce primary damages from the crash but also secondaries (such as contaminates aboard the craft - such as chemical/biological weapons).

I'm sure they have a pretty stringent set of Pre-Planned-Responses (contingency operations) and Rules Of Engagement - which will likely look to avoid instances the author implies. More than likely, small-arms would be used by sentry forces to down a suspicious hobby craft - not missiles.

reply to post by Aim64C


I think you missed the point.

They won. The fake terrorists have won.

You can go on and on how this is safe, in reality, WTF!

Rooftop surface to air batteries!?!?!

reply to post by litterbaux


Yep, that's how it goes.

"This missile system is only temporary and is for your own good"

Cut to 9 years later when you have to drive through a military checkpoint just to go get a loaf of bread.

Am I missing something?

Is it usually customary for the hosting country to place missiles surrounding the games for means of defense?

I have never been so disgusted with my nations security services as I am now. The simple fact of the matter is this:

If the state of our nations intelligence and domestic security establishment, is such that we require such drastic, draconian, and unsubtle tactics as these to defend a sporting event, then truely there must be a serious issue with the quality of the people we are employing in those arenas, and the expertise they are bringing to the table.

Time was that we had such good intelligence and security coverage, that incidents that might spawn such responses as a visible, quasi military presence, would be dealt with so silently, so quickly and efficiently, that the man in the street would be unaware of the slightest state of tension.

What the hell has happened to us, that now we can even THINK of militarising residential areas? Where are the men and women who move like smoke, see dangers even when they are under the heavy veil of secrecy? Where did they go?

We do not pay taxes for service this poor.

If it has gotten so bad, that we gotta set up temporary missile silos for wordlwide sports events..... Perhaps it's time to stop wasting money on olympics and focus on areas that matter.....

reply to post by TKDRL


NOW THIS.....we are in complete agreement on, What in the heck has the world come to when missile batteries are employed to "protect" a sporting event. I am dying (well, losing my freedom) to know what will be the defense strategy for the next World Cup is going to be, it will be in interesting, with all those soccer(football) hooligans you know.....

reply to post by RyanFromCan


It's funny when that happens, why I don't bother trying to box people up anymore. In some threads I bump heads with people, in other threads I am in agreement. This place is funny like that.

Stuff like this here, is another reason I am way more happy, and feel safer in the woods, surrounded by dangerous wild animals

maybe they want to militarize the entire country, get you all accustomed to the idea?

I think the perception of a serious threat is enough to put people on edge on a sub-level. It is all mind war games of disempowerment and helpless fear. This is setting the next stage of control just like they have done with CCTV, slowly missile towers will be set up over the next several generations as to be accepted as the norm. Its the long long con.

I guess these missile batteries could come in real handy during any future riots.

I believe the real reason for installing them is so that it conditions people to ACCEPT even more 'security measures' for the people's 'protection'.

If they aren't REMOVED after the games, that's when I'll be convinced of their real plans for the population.

wrong thread

um, don't those things spit out fire and stuff when they go off. What if they have to deploy, what happens to the people on the top floor?

I think this might be a dumb question.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer

I don't think anyone these days will deny that this type of air defense is now a necessity.

Oh, yes. Some of us would.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Gawd, cannot believe I missed this bit...

I WOULD deny that this kind of deployment is required. Oh yes, I surely would. As I have stated, it is the task of one of the best funded secret services in the world , to ensure that security concerns are dealt with in such a manner as to leave all of us absolutely unconcerned about our day to day physical security. We the British people pay innordinate amounts of money to government, and allow them to butcher the working classes pocket books, and in return we expect security that we couldnt see even if we had predator vision.

We are NOT paying for a bunch of gung ho "if its weak stick rockets on top of it" merchants. I expect that from the idiots at the CIA, and the utter intellectual non entities at the pentagon, but Britain ought to expect better from its security services than silos on the roof of surrounding buildings. Frankly speaking, if there was a chance in blue hell that we were going to be attacked during the games, then the only acceptable solution is for all possible colaberators to simply dissapear until the games are done.

Originally posted by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS
Am I missing something?

Is it usually customary for the hosting country to place missiles surrounding the games for means of defense?

Greece did it in 2004 and China in 2008. It is nothing new.

I'm not sure what "supersonic" debris this resident is chatting about, however. Whatever it hits will become a burning pile of mess, but that is preferable to an aircraft slamming into a crowded arena.

I wouldn't get too paranoid either. The UK does not have masses of missile systems to deploy anyway. Once the "threat" is passed (ie; the Olympics is over) they will be off to other duties. For those with the wet-dream of "military checkpoints" to go and buy bread, pray tell, where are these soldiers coming from? We don't have that many anyway!!!!

Originally posted by SpaceJockey1
I guess these missile batteries could come in real handy during any future riots.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

The level of intelligence round these parts certainly has taken a dip recently and coupled with the increased paranoia many seem to be sporting, does result in some hilarious nonsense being posted.

Do tell me, how on earth a system like Rapier or Starstreak can be of any use in a "riot". Especially when there was uncertainty about using bloody water cannon..

Honestly, some people... Think before you speak.

reply to post by stumason


Obviously SARCASM is totally lost on you....