Infant Monkeys Given Doses of Vaccines Develop Autism Symptoms

reply to post by artistpoet

Big Pharma has it's own Agenda and your attack does nothing to pull the wool over the eyes those that see what that agenda is

Wow, what a wonderfully effective way to dismiss information that contradicts you.

Just claim it's all made up and presto, you win!

As for a vested interest; you don't think that the fact that one of the main authors of this monkey study is suing a vaccine company for a damaged child and could get a hefty lump of cash for a pay out has no motive to be just a teensy bit biased in her findings and method?

I've spend a fair amount of time studying published data for the causes of autism. Genetics and in utero environmental damage come up time and time again. I've not seen a reputable study looking at vaccines in a long while. This monkey study is pretty iffyin method, as was the Wakefield work.

You'd have to believe every academic studying autism who has a different opinion to yours is a paid corporate shill, which is ridiculous if you knew a lot of publishing academics. A more liberal, hand wringing and one upping group don't exist. If they were finding decent evidence pointing to vaccines as a cause of damage they wouldn't shut their traps. If not for moral reasons then just for the attention.

Known causes of autism:

Viral infections (cold sores, chickenpox, measles etc) cause autism type behaviour through encepahilitis (probably how the solo proved case of a live virus vaccine actually causing autism happened)
being a twin
mother taking anti depressants in pregnany
de novo genetic mutations in parents
aging parents
obese mother

I'd also like to point out that there's been in increase in the diagnosis of autism not the actual frequency. There are eighteen studies showing autism at the same frequency in the older population or that the increase comes from changing diagnosis or changing categories in the education system.

But of course absolutely everyone who published this stuff was making this up, right?

reply to post by Danbones

Funny, I was just reading that not only do unvaccinated Amish folks not seem to have autism they are also very much non allergenic too.

Actually about 70% of the Amish are vaccinated. They do also have autism.
imfar.confex.com...
Conclusions:

Preliminary data have identified the presence of ASD in the Amish community at a rate of approximately 1 in 271 children using standard ASD screening and diagnostic tools although some modifications may be in order.

They have their kids young and are generally not as fat or chemically exposed, which would give a lower rate of autism as aging/fat are associated with higher incidence of autism. AT least one doctor working with the Amish has says that higher functioning autistsic kids just don't see a doctor and so don't make the satistics.

It's worrying how often this Amish/autism myth gets repeated.

Thank you for making this thread. I caught that earlier and its really important information for everyone to have. No one should ever immunize their child.

Originally posted by dayve
I'd pay alot of money to see a autistic blind monkey with down syndrome, pants, suspenders, and a helmet on ride a bike.... haha......

Shakes head lol

Maybe we're all decsended from autistic savaunt monkeys too lol who knows

reply to post by Heresy

Do you have any personal experience of Autism?
Add to your list Vaccinations
I do have personal experience and like thousands the story follows the same line
Vaccination - Seizures - Arrested Development and Physical ailments regarding the way the Vaccines attack the young persons developing Immune System
Have you seen for example what Mercury does to nerves - It withers the sheath on contact and so the nerve dies almost instantly
So far there has been no real investigation into this connection
This is all Dr Wafefield asked for but was met with a wall of resistance - Have you read his book "Callous Disregard"
I am saying beware of Vaccinations - Beware so called experts
The British Medical Association along with Big Pharma and Government has colluded to cover up the dangers of their Frankenstien Vaccines as they always do

Big Pharma owns physicians and medical school faculty says investigator – Harvard Law School

therefusers.com...

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by dayve
I'd pay alot of money to see a autistic blind monkey with down syndrome, pants, suspenders, and a helmet on ride a bike.... haha......

You are one sick individual
I have a brother with Autism
Tell you what if you live in UK U2U me and we can arrange to discuss this face to face
Whoever starred this post - You have a sick sense of Humor and need a lesson in Humanity

reply to post by artistpoet

Do you have any personal experience of Autism? Add to your list Vaccinations I do have personal experience and like thousands the story follows the same line Vaccination - Seizures - Arrested Development and Physical ailments regarding the way the Vaccines attack the young persons developing Immune System Have you seen for example what Mercury does to nerves - It withers the sheath on contact and so the nerve dies almost instantly So far there has been no real investigation into this connection This is all Dr Wafefield asked for but was met with a wall of resistance - Have you read his book "Callous Disregard" I am saying beware of Vaccinations - Beware so called experts The British Medical Association along with Big Pharma and Government has colluded to cover up the dangers of their Frankenstien Vaccines as they always do Big Pharma owns physicians and medical school faculty says investigator – Harvard Law School

I have high functioning Aspergers, and I'm pretty old. I have one seriously affected male relative with ASD, and know about six young boys with ASD (all mild, three with Aspergers). The youngest Aspie wasn't given any vaccinations until he was three, as his much older brother had been diagnosed as an Aspie and their mother read all the BS that your lot put out. Unvaccinated, the younger boy was diagnosed with Aspergers at three. His mother then vaccinated him. The male relative with ASD I could see wasn't quite right from birth as his face was a little odd (and still is), but his whole family swear blind he was fine until his jabs, which is BS as he was withdrawn and had digestive problems from the start. I find it fascinating that you seem oblivious to the huge number of ASD cases where people knew there was something wrong with the kid from birth, or where close family members sharing a condtion made a genetic cause damn obvious. My eldest child also is a high functioning Aspie. Genetics again.

As you can see, my personal experience shows that vaccination is in no way to blame for my or several other ASD cases. I can remember kids from school in the seventies who would be diagnosed as ASD now, but then were just 'odd' or 'naughty'. I wasn't diagnosed until recently. So I can be pretty sure the whole increase in rates of autism is down to better diagnosis; although I don't think I have a problem. I just function differently, not worse.

The list of neuro toxic substances in common use is as long as your arm. There's no evidence the thimerasol damage is any worse than a bunch of others we are constantly exposed to. Why are you not screaming about antidepressants, those DO cause Autism when a foetus is exposed to it. Or alcohol damage, which brain damages a baby no end. If you were saying the mercury was causing in utero damage that would make more sense. Anyway, they stopped using the mercury in child vaccinations in California, and the diagnosis of autism keeps increasing. Kind of makes the whole 'mercury causes autism' claim look weak.

You've assumed I haven't read up on the assorted vaccine/autism work. Well you don't know me. I did. Somebody went on about it to me, so in my obsessive way I dug up every single published paper, good and bad, and assembled it into neat little logic flow charts to dissect and analyse it. The bulk of the reseacrh is showing it's genetics and some in utero problems. The ASD kids have different brain structure and growth patterns from the start, different facial structure and a bunch of other developmental problems that can only occur during foetal stages, and the statistical work supporting a vaccine cause for autism was just appallingly poorly done.

I also have an in depth understanding of how academics think. No amount of cash would keep them quiet as a group if they seriously thought vaccines cause damage. A more holier than thou bunch you won't find.

As for Pharma owns physicians and medical school faculty says investigator – Harvard Law School Yes, they pay people to do work. They don't own ALL scientists or fund EVERY study, as you seen convinced they do. But I'm worried how keen you are to overlook the financial incentive that the authors of this study had (pending lawsuit) and Wakefield had (hawking his own vaccine in the eighties).

If you think everyone who publishes something that contradicts you is a paid shill (which you seem to do) then you're paranoid. I mean, clinically. It's also a great way to dismiss anyone who provides information that threatens your beliefs. It also means no-one can ever show you anything to change your mind, as everything that disagrees with you is by definition part of a conspiracy.

Anyone curious, I'm the sort of Aspie that doesn't stop talking. As if you couldn't guess.

reply to post by frazzle

But back on topic, you seem to think pharmaceutical companies dominating vaccine and drug safety reporting is irrelevant despite the profit factor and the growing number of outside studies raising serious doubts about official statistics on many, if not all of the vaccines. You apparently also think that the embedded revolving door between drug companies and the FDA, which IS supposed to verify the safety of vaccines and drugs, is irrelevant. You must also think, then, that drug companies spending huge sums of money to lobby the ruling administrations and legislators in exchange for political favors is irrelevant. Think again.

You seem to think that the whole world revolves around the US of A.

How does FDA regulation apply to Australia?

How does FDA regulation apply to the countries of Europe, Africa, Asia & South America?

You seem to think that you can pull the Pharma card and everyone will automatically bow down to your opinion.

Sorry Frazzle, but I have an education and I know the difference between a fool dribbling unverifiable crap and a peer reviewed scientific paper.

Now should I listen to the anonymous moron on the net who won't supply an factual evidence.....or should I listen to tens of thousands of doctors who endorse vaccinations and have the data to back it up?

Gee...I wonder

reply to post by Heresy


I understand you have come to your opinion by your experience
I however have had a different set of experiences
I could go on and push my point about this subject but to be honest what is the point
All voices should be heard and the Parent should be informed and have the right to choose if their child is vaccinated.
I know doctors and nurses personally and many are against vaccination full stop as they see it carrys too many risks and the numbers for prevention do not stack up
By the way I never stated that Mercury caused Autism nor that Vaccinations caused Autism nor did Dr Wakefield who asked he findings should be investigated for which he was treat very shoddily.
You should read his book without pre set opinion to understand this
I too could write paragraph after paragraph
Blind faith in the Medical Profession is dangerous to Health in my opinion
That may shock you and you may think me ignorant but I stand by that - I respect you obviously do not agree.
And it would be a waste of both our energies to try prove each other wrong
So I strongly agree to disagree most strongly and do not wish to make this a personal fight which neither can win

reply to post by artistpoet

I know doctors and nurses personally and many are against vaccination full stop as they see it carrys too many risks and the numbers for prevention do not stack up

Whereas after asking around a bunch of doctors and nurses ( I know some personally too) I haven't found a single one who was anti vaccine.

Originally posted by Heresy
reply to post by artistpoet

 

I know doctors and nurses personally and many are against vaccination full stop as they see it carrys too many risks and the numbers for prevention do not stack up

Whereas after asking around a bunch of doctors and nurses ( I know some personally too) I haven't found a single one who was anti vaccine.

That is a fair comment if that is your experience which is different to mine.
I am in the UK by the way - And to add my conversations regarding Medical Practices have been off the record for obvious reasons as Dr Wakefield found out to his cost by the backlash he received

reply to post by OccamAssassin

I have an education and I know the difference between a fool dribbling unverifiable crap and a peer reviewed scientific paper.

So do I. It's worrying what some people at ATS will take as gospel. I've been directed to all kind of crank sites by people who thought they were the word of god. I do a lot of research, and I've learned how to tell the difference being a good source and bad, and a good study and a bad study. I guess it's a learned skill a lot of people lack.

I've also noticed the 'blind spot' a lot of believers have to information that disagrees with them, and how so many Americans seem to think the FDA decisions apply to everyone. I'm English, it doesn't apply here!

reply to post by artistpoet


Honestly, I find it hard to believe that any large number of medically qualified staff agree with your POV, as whenever I've asked they've all rolled their eyes at the autism/vaccine enquiry.

The issue with Wakefield was that he appears to have faked data and had a financial motive to do so. He had a patent on a rival vaccine, and no study of just 12 children was enough to make any kind of definitive statement. Three of his 'autistic children' weren't even autistic, and one of the autistic kids showed symptoms before vaccination. And you think this guy is trustworthy?

Originally posted by Heresy
reply to post by artistpoet

 

Honestly, I find it hard to believe that any large number of medically qualified staff agree with your POV, as whenever I've asked they've all rolled their eyes at the autism/vaccine enquiry.

The issue with Wakefield was that he appears to have faked data and had a financial motive to do so. He had a patent on a rival vaccine, and no study of just 12 children was enough to make any kind of definitive statement. Three of his 'autistic children' weren't even autistic, and one of the autistic kids showed symptoms before vaccination. And you think this guy is trustworthy?

So you wish to continue this exchange by saying I am a liar in your opening sentence.
Below are just a few of many links

www.whale.to...
vran.org...
www.jesus-is-savior.com...
www.vaccinationcouncil.org...

The issue of Dr Wakefield is not as you assume - Read his book for a fair assessment IE Both sides of the story before making accusations and intimating I am a fool to not agree with your POV
www.callous-disregard.com...

I think part of the problem is that the younger generation just don't understand how nasty diseases like measles and whooping cough are. I remember the past and I've travelled in Africa. THEY KILL. Even if they did cause autism (which they don't) they number of lives saved in a population would be massively higher than the number of kids 'damaged'. I'n not even including the non-brain damaged kids from rubella in the good side of vaccinations. Whooping cough often causes serious lung damage in infants.

Mortaility from rubella is about 1/400.
Mortality from whooping cough 1/300
Mortality from measles 1/5000
Mortality from diptheria 1/10

And these are mortality rates from modern European and Japanese outbreaks. The rubella outbreak was in pristine completely unvaccinated people from a religious group- so much for not getting sick if you don't have the jabs.

Interestingly, acute encephalitis, whcih you can get from rubella/measles can cause brain damage eough to create a kind of autism.

I'd like to point out yet again that there has been no actual increase in the frequency of autism since vaccination started. At least 18 seperate studies have found this to be the case.

reply to post by Heresy

Be respectfull to read my reply to your post before bombarding with more posts.
That is called lecturing not civil discourse - I see you have an issue with such

reply to post by artistpoet

So you wish to continue this exchange by saying I am a liar in your opening sentence. Below are just a few of many links www.whale.to... vran.org... www.jesus-is-savior.com... www.vaccinationcouncil.org... The issue of Dr Wakefield is not as you assume - Read his book for a fair assessment IE Both sides of the story

That was a perfect example of someone thinking a crank site has any credibility. They were not peer reviewed papers or a site maintained by reputable scientists, just stuff someone like you wrote, and you think they are good references. Well, they aren't. Any crank can set up a website and put anything they like on it.

I'm very familiar with the Wakefield case. He keeps suing then dropping the case before he gets near a court room, and he had a strong financial motive to 'help' his paper shoot down the current MMR shot. Something that seems lost on you.

reply to post by artistpoet


I didn't see that next post, you put it up while I was typing.

reply to post by Heresy

Lol fair enough

Have you read Callous Disregard?
If not you can not be familiar with his explanation of what occurred?