Explain to me how Homosexuals are "born that way".

Originally posted by nahahh
I love the way everyone rebuttled EVERYTHING but one MAJOR DETAIL that i spoke of; and that would be the REPRODUCTION part. If it is so "right" then how come you can't reproduce??? If the CREATOR of the UNIVERSE wanted to...HE/SHE could have made just MALE...and had man do the reproducing. Instead, HE/SHE made a FEMALE to HAVE CHILDREN.

Let's be REAL, for a moment, what EXACTLY is the role of WOMAN. To have SEX with man...and that's it??? hahaha Yeah, ok. Continue on with your "gay" selves. hahahaha And where EXACTLY did the word...'gay' come from? Oh, the twist on words, the PTB use on the sheeple.

And, since you like to post CUTE youtube videos...this should OPEN YOUR EYES.

My aunt could never reproduce either. She had ovarian cancer and her ovaries had to be removed. Jehovah and the MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE! Why do I have to have babies? I don't want any. I already raised straight people's children.

If you tell that to a woman you will never make babies. Gay means happy! Like I am happy just being myself as boring as it is sometimes.


Darn more agenda videos. I always think of "Gay Agenda" as dressing up in Ninja gear and storming Westboro Baptist, taking the males hostage and taking them dancing in a rave club. Like when I hear "Gay lifestyle" I imagine a resort beach with lots of hot guys dancing with cocktail drinks. I wish my life were not as mundane as it is and these visions existed.

Originally posted by nahahh
I love the way everyone rebuttled EVERYTHING but one MAJOR DETAIL that i spoke of; and that would be the REPRODUCTION part. If it is so "right" then how come you can't reproduce??? If the CREATOR of the UNIVERSE wanted to...HE/SHE could have made just MALE...and had man do the reproducing. Instead, HE/SHE made a FEMALE to HAVE CHILDREN.

Well 1st off, I managed to escape the indoctrination and am an atheist. 2nd, what is "right"? Do you mean healthy? I think someone not repressing their feelings is healthy. Why is it important that everyone have the desire to reproduce? Those who have the desire to make babies are doing a great job without the rest of us. We're definitely not going to abstain ourselves to extinction.

Originally posted by Garfee
It is absolutely beyond me why one adult male cares where another adult male puts his dick unless they actually...'care' if you get my drift.

Maybe it's because, the other adult males, keep pushing their penis on everyone else...is why. I don't see a parade for whoremongers, fornicators and adulterers. Do you? Where is our heterosexual parade? Why can't we have a day, where we can just be OURSELVES? Isn't that a little bit HYPOCRITICAL? I mean, a flag representing your SEXUAL PREFERENCE? Really??? hahahahahahha And you ask, why do we care??? Seriously??? hahahah New name for ATS: IGNORANCE IS BLISS!

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


The OP framed the question around the concept of being "born that way".
But it's not necessarily a useful argument politically.
In academics the biologically deterministic view is held by the "essentialists", while the "social constructionists" took their cue from radical feminism and claim that all sexual identities are constantly constructed according to social and historical factors around power and privilege/resistance and agency.
The "born that way" gay people are often outside the ivory tower, while more advanced theorists question the usefulness of framing the homosexual as an "ethnicity" (it didn't do much for other minorities on a street level).

Ultimately equal sexual rights for all adults should make it irrelevant whether one was born that way or not.
If one wants to discriminate on sexual rights between two adults one would have to find unique and very good reasons, and despite the propaganda nothing uniquely or consistently bad about gay sex or relationships has been proven.

There's also a gender discrepancy that reflects patriarchal society.
So scientifically gay male behavior seems to be more in need of explanation than female homosexuality.
This was also reflected in colonial penal codes that often omitted lesbianism, thus sparing lesbians from criminal sanctions, but it also denied gay women any agency.

Physical research on homosexuality is by all known accounts quite recent.
The first wave of AIDS in the US supplied the first bodies, which showed an enlarged brain center in several gay men, which was later challenged as being a result of the disease.

In my youth they blamed overbearing mothers, and then a while later they blamed the fathers of gay sons as causative factors, which only increased the guilt and trauma within families.

The first genetic studies were met with activism, and a fear that finding a gay gene, or cluster of genes would lead to attempts to alter them, or to the termination of pregnancies with gay genes.

Since then attitudes have changed, as the political indifference and religious applause to the initial AIDS crisis receded, although those fears still remain unresolved.

So it has been a dogged and sporadic process.

As an essentialist it's interesting that a lot of the sociological and genetic research shows a difference between male and female homosexuality.
Exclusive homosexuality is more common in men, while women seem to change gender partners, even in later life.
That's not to say that there are no male bisexuals, or that there are no exclusive lesbians.
There certainly are.
However, women do seem to have more variability.

Strangely that's hardly reflected in the local literature, although a local magazine reported some letters from men who were left by their wives for woman.
I'm not sure, but it seems that men are somehow less willing to discuss this than vice-versa.

As for morality - I don't see a special issue about homosexuality.
One can also make a moral issue about religions and their daily scandals.
That's purely a matter of a moral lens one wears.

Perhaps lastly one could say that religions and moralists have little to fear from a minority who claim their homosexuality is fixed and innate.

It's radicals who want to deconstruct everything and say everything is a choice (that religions are unwittingly pushing with similar arguments) who will deflate all identities until we have a Marxist mass to fight the class struggle against hegemony, as they see it.

That's all quite polemical for the sake of argument, and ultimately gay people from a number of theoretical positions and both genders (if not more) have contributed to the struggle for sexual equality.

reply to post by nahahh

So essentially, here's what you are postulating: There is an "agenda" to create more homosexuality in the world? What evidence do you have to back up these claims? What would be the point of this? How would it benefit the people pushing this agenda? Is this another Christian conspiracy theory where you think people are here on earth doing satan's work?

There is no "gay agenda". The only reason homosexuality is more acceptable now is because Abrahamic religions are flying out the window like a stack of papers in a tornado. Less and less people believe in 2,000 year old religions now because society has reached a new level of understanding and logic. This crushes some people, and they find it hard to deal with because their religion has been proven invalid in so many ways. I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings or rain on parades here, I'm not gloating. I'm just saying that more and more people have come to the realization that it's time to let it go. But some people are still clinging in desperation to keep their outdated beliefs. The world is progressing and moving forward whether you like it or not. You'll just have to find a way to cope.

reply to post by toochaos4u

My aunt could never reproduce either. She had ovarian cancer and her ovaries had to be removed. Jehovah and the MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE! Why do I have to have babies? I don't want any. I already raised straight people's children.

Thats too bad. You and your aunt are on the fast track to hell, forever suffering in infinite punishment for your finite sins. The fires of the underworld shall burn your soul in everlasting damnation.

Remember though, God loves you.

See now these 'debates' always anger me, 1, Christianity is nothing more then the adaptation of numerous other religions so stop using it as a source of reference (im sorry but it's true and those who are any good at research will no doubt know it by now) and 2, sexuality is made up by different underline factors be it you have more oestrogen in your biological make up then many other males or there is the environmental factors i.e how you were raised by your parents, what your friend say as your growing up how you see others act about it so on so forth, and as a child this has a psychological effect on the person determining how they themselves will later react.

My belief is this, not a single person is born straight, as a baby love is love be it from a man or a woman, life happens and then you grow up to be either straight, bi-sexual, gay or trans-gender. Simply saying god didn't want it that way is no valid excuse to be homophobic, make your own mind up that's one of the reasons you joined this site isn't it? to find you own opinions and such.

Originally posted by nahahh

Originally posted by Garfee
It is absolutely beyond me why one adult male cares where another adult male puts his dick unless they actually...'care' if you get my drift.

Maybe it's because, the other adult males, keep pushing their penis on everyone else...is why. I don't see a parade for whoremongers, fornicators and adulterers. Do you? Where is our heterosexual parade? Why can't we have a day, where we can just be OURSELVES? Isn't that a little bit HYPOCRITICAL? I mean, a flag representing your SEXUAL PREFERENCE? Really??? hahahahahahha And you ask, why do we care??? Seriously??? hahahah New name for ATS: IGNORANCE IS BLISS!

Uh uh my significant other would do a smackdown on me. The church had a parade recently and many of those are divorce and remarrying type. They are adulters and should be stoned. The Heterosexual parade is Mardi Gras. You can be yourself any day as can I. A flag is a symbol of something nothing more. Perhaps you should learn the meaning of that flag. Why do you care? You folks make my life more scandalous and interesting than it really is...You should write gay romance novels.

Originally posted by nahahh

Originally posted by Garfee
It is absolutely beyond me why one adult male cares where another adult male puts his dick unless they actually...'care' if you get my drift.

Maybe it's because, the other adult males, keep pushing their penis on everyone else...is why. I don't see a parade for whoremongers, fornicators and adulterers. Do you? Where is our heterosexual parade? Why can't we have a day, where we can just be OURSELVES? Isn't that a little bit HYPOCRITICAL? I mean, a flag representing your SEXUAL PREFERENCE? Really??? hahahahahahha And you ask, why do we care??? Seriously??? hahahah New name for ATS: IGNORANCE IS BLISS!

Yes, you obviously care. I've had a couple of friends suggest they push their penis on me. I just told them my sex drive doesn't work that way. You have to know that gays march for similar reasons as black people marched. They're a repressed minority.

Have you answered me yet? I'm beginning to feel ATS has an ignore feature.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by nahahh
I love the way everyone rebuttled EVERYTHING but one MAJOR DETAIL that i spoke of; and that would be the REPRODUCTION part. If it is so "right" then how come you can't reproduce??? If the CREATOR of the UNIVERSE wanted to...HE/SHE could have made just MALE...and had man do the reproducing. Instead, HE/SHE made a FEMALE to HAVE CHILDREN.

Well 1st off, I managed to escape the indoctrination and am an atheist. 2nd, what is "right"? Do you mean healthy? I think someone not repressing their feelings is healthy. Why is it important that everyone have the desire to reproduce? Those who have the desire to make babies are doing a great job without the rest of us. We're definitely not going to abstain ourselves to extinction.

Did you ask: "What is "right"??? Where is the slap myself upside the head "smiley"? We are in DEEP, DEEP TROUBLE, when people don't know what's right, and wrong. Ok, so try this...next time you need to plug up an electronic device....don't put the MALE end, into the FEMALE socket; 2 cords together. That should get the lights on. hahahahhahah

Let me guess...the animals in the wild do it, so it must be right....huh??? Afterall, that's what science says. And we stupid people....have a way of listening to the "experts".

reply to post by toochaos4u


Ohhh boy.
I haven't read a single reply yet and already I can tell that this is going to bring out the most ignorant minds ATS has to offer.

Originally posted by halfoldman
In my youth they blamed overbearing mothers, and then a while later they blamed the fathers of gay sons as causative factors, which only increased the guilt and trauma within families.

Doctors used to blame parents for autism. Doctors go to school a long time, pass rigorous exams, make lots of money, and play golf with people who are obviously better than us. Doctors' competence sure add a lot of confusion to society.

Strange how someone always manages to tell they were "born that way" and rape them young. I'm sure the sexual abuse at a young age has no effect though. They were born that way after all. In our society 2+2=5; if you don't like it we'll call you names.

Originally posted by nahahh
Did you ask: "What is "right"??? Where is the slap myself upside the head "smiley"? We are in DEEP, DEEP TROUBLE, when people don't know what's right, and wrong. Ok, so try this...next time you need to plug up an electronic device....don't put the MALE end, into the FEMALE socket; 2 cords together. That should get the lights on. hahahahhahah

Let me guess...the animals in the wild do it, so it must be right....huh??? Afterall, that's what science says. And we stupid people....have a way of listening to the "experts".

Yes, I asked what "right" is, and you answered. It seems your definition is about not hurting oneself, tripping in the dark. I would extend that same courtesy to others. So, how is consensual sex hurting anyone?

Also there's that other question I asked about being required to want to procreate the species.

reply to post by Screwed


I could post links to scientific journals and such but, nobody reads that. They are too busy with the bible.

Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike
Strange how someone always manages to tell they were "born that way" and rape them young. I'm sure the sexual abuse at a young age has no effect though. They were born that way after all. In our society 2+2=5; if you don't like it we'll call you names.

Are you saying that sexual abuse of children causes them to be gay? If so, how many gays here were molested?

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by nahahh

Originally posted by Garfee
It is absolutely beyond me why one adult male cares where another adult male puts his dick unless they actually...'care' if you get my drift.

Maybe it's because, the other adult males, keep pushing their penis on everyone else...is why. I don't see a parade for whoremongers, fornicators and adulterers. Do you? Where is our heterosexual parade? Why can't we have a day, where we can just be OURSELVES? Isn't that a little bit HYPOCRITICAL? I mean, a flag representing your SEXUAL PREFERENCE? Really??? hahahahahahha And you ask, why do we care??? Seriously??? hahahah New name for ATS: IGNORANCE IS BLISS!

Yes, you obviously care. I've had a couple of friends suggest they push their penis on me. I just told them my sex drive doesn't work that way. You have to know that gays march for similar reasons as black people marched. They're a repressed minority.

Have you answered me yet? I'm beginning to feel ATS has an ignore feature.

Did you compare homosexuals...to blacks? Let's get something straight....being homosexual means...you are attracted to someone of the same sex. It's an attraction. Nothing more, nothing less. Besides, it's easy to hide being "gay"...but not so easy when you're black.

And, the last i recall....i dont think they ever had....."straights only". What repression? And if you want to talk further repression....let's talk about muslims...shall we??? They get hated on, for what they believe...but we believe they're the "bad guys" because TPTB BRAINWASHED the sheeple.

I will say this....i could care less who you're sleeping with. Keep your business to YOURSELF. No need to parade. It's NONE OF OUR BUSINESS what you do in your HOME...so keep it to yourself! Feel Me???

Originally posted by nahahh
i could care less who you're sleeping with.

Now we're getting somewhere.

BTW, it's "I couldn't care less", as your amount of caring couldn't be any less because it's already so low.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by nahahh
i could care less who you're sleeping with.

Now we're getting somewhere.

So ok then...enough with the gay PRIDE crap. PRIDE comes before the fall! Are we still going places....cuz i can drive ALL NIGHT.

They know that they are born that way because they can examine their feelings and thoughts and see that they are naturally attracted toward the same sex...

Even if being gay was a choice it wouldn't matter. People should be able to choose to be gay and get married if they wish. If the religion does not support gay marriage fine, but they are free to have their own belief and marriage ESPECIALLY non-religious marriage by the government.