Insight on China's military. Big but not very effective.

reply to post by oghamxx
It's my belief that China's military moderization, even India's and Russia's, is a direct result of the U.S. contraction militarily. Regional strength is the goal of all three, In my opinion. They are aware the U.S. cannot and would not invade them. All three aren't that confident that holds true for the others mentioned. keeping up with the Jones' is the order of the day. India's ordering of 250 Pak-50s, now delayed until 2019, would put them numerically superior to the 185 remaining F-22s of the U.S. If the perception is a continued U.S. contraction, then their build-ups makes sense regionally. it would take all three combined, currently, to be any viable threat to the U.S. Infrastructually, both China and India are a "House of cards" where minimal attacks on transporation systems would collapse their ability to transport food to their population centers. This would result in internal collapse. I cannot see China as a valid threat to the U.S.. Perhaps U.S. interests in the area, but certainly not the U.S., at least for a while, anyways.

Let us remember the 300 spartan soldiers who stood against the Persian army at the battle of Thermopylae....

reply to post by HattoriHanzou


what about when we took russia off of our GPS grid and it stalled them for a few days?


It took them almost as long as it took us to Kick Saddam out of power.


Dont kid yourself, Russia couldnt wipe the United States shoes clean.


Stay at home Russia, dont test us....

I think one of the biggest factors is the Navy and naval aircraft.

Western countries have far more numerous and advanced navies than anywhere else in the world except Russia and India. Comparably, there is no ability to project power or wage war anywhere else other than on your home turf for much of anyone except the US, Russia, Italy, India, Spain, France and the UK. Even the UK uses some rather sub par technology compared to the rest of these IMHO. India has some nasty as hell missiles but not any carriers capable of carrying modern fighters/attacker jets as far as I can remember. Australia has impressive technology, but not all that much of it.

China's navy would simply be annihilated and they could have an infinite number of soldiers with no where to go and no way of getting them anywhere, even some of their "claimed/disputed" territories, or whatever the politically correct term for that is, would be isolated militarily. The DF-21D can't hit a carrier group that simply attacks it from outside of its range and western nations have some kind of monopoly on naval aviation and ships. Not to mention missile defense technology which Russia to some extent rivals the rest of the world on.

If you want to talk submarines, now there is something the UK (historically) has been good at and US submarines are all but undetectable sensory-rife nuclear-armed monsters. There is not much of a chance in the world of anyone successfully sinking modern (or even outdated attack subs like a seawolf) American submarines, some serious nasty and secret stuff. China has a buttload of attack subs though, how one was able to sneak up on an American carrier group a while back I don't know and frankly I would be embarrassed if I was the commander of that battle group because the technology is there to see that thing coming from practically it's home port.

I've been saying this for a while, but there is no way China is anywhere close militarily as much of the rest of the world, specifically some the the western (and otherwise) nations listed above. They of course have what they need to police their corner of the world, but not much else except nukes and all that good stuff. There mere fact that they have nukes is reason enough not to screw with them though. As far as NK is concerned, I'm convinced that if they tried to launch a nuke a little sign would come out that said "bang".

Asia is the Mother of all Living.

the consequences of actually fighting a war with China are severe and long lasting.

i'm certain they don't need much of a military because anyone dumb enough to attack them wouldn't live to see the end of the war for reasons unrelated to military concerns; they'd be smooshed like a bug. such an attack would cause the fragmentation of a state and civil war within ones own land.

if any of you have ever seen a native american, especially the ones in the west and anywhere in America, north or south...you will see quite clearly they are asian people. we are all connected and a war with billions of people on every continent is not emotionally sound decision making.

China has never really been conquered and only occupied by the Mongols and that only happened because the Mongol were China's abandoned offspring.

i'm not saying that they can't be greatly inconvenienced, but i'm not certain that inconveniencing a nation is a recipe for long happy life.

reply to post by michaelbrux


That is some nice spiritual mumbo-jumbo, however it is still mumbo-jumbo. The US would utterly destroy China if they engaged in war. No need to conquer them, just destroy their industrial base and allow a non-communist party to take over and make a fortune off them. Not that I wish it happens, I am not for war. Japan found out where the real Dragon lives, and it's not found in Asia anymore.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by michaelbrux

 

That is some nice spiritual mumbo-jumbo, however it is still mumbo-jumbo. The US would utterly destroy China if they engaged in war. No need to conquer them, just destroy their industrial base and allow a non-communist party to take over and make a fortune off them. Not that I wish it happens, I am not for war. Japan found out where the real Dragon lives, and it's not found in Asia anymore.

its really a shame that you consider beating your wife mumbo jumbo.

and then you think somehow...you've won something, as she lays there curled up in a ball in the corner.

its really no wonder people have gotten themselves in such a strange, smelly mess these days.

now...if what you actually meant was that you'd serve up China the best sex she's ever had and then insist she go into the kitchen and make you a sandwich, i agree.

but if you are advocate domestic violence...you are one sick puppy.

i know about the real strength. i know about how to keep it too.

Originally posted by oghamxx
Source www.strategypage.com...

Long standing corruption of officers, lack of training and high quantity but low quality equipment are major problems. IMO these will require many years to rectify.

They purchase a lot from Russia (outdated junk?) so I expect it won't be long before we also sell them weaponry and/or they will buy our stuff from Israel.

Meanwhile do they really need military might when they can rule the world economically.

You idiot of course every country needs military. It is to prevent infiltration and illegal crossover. If no country have military the whole world would be infiltrated by now. Just look what happened to Mexico when they accept many bad guys from US. Obviously US is the heart of gangs and mafia. If China was open it would have been taken over by gangs and China being number 1 world economy, China would probably not exist at all and US is the number one leader. US can make excuses to invade China just like what they did to Afghanistan.

Originally posted by BODYBAGxPAT
reply to post by HattoriHanzou

 

what about when we took russia off of our GPS grid and it stalled them for a few days?


It took them almost as long as it took us to Kick Saddam out of power.


Dont kid yourself, Russia couldnt wipe the United States shoes clean.


Stay at home Russia, dont test us....

I don't think that ever stalled Russia. Some flagged ships may have had navigational issues, but Russia has had their replacement for GPS, called GLONASS, in a fully operational state since 1995.

Russia is not to be trifled with. Look what we did to save our precious ally Georgia when Russia invaded a few years back. Nothing!

reply to post by oghamxx
The crafty buggers have got nukes fitted in all their large container ships,meaning they can hit anytime,any city thats within 50 miles of the coast will be wiped off the map,the disruption in utilities with power and comunications badly effected would handicap even the largest countrys ability to respond

reply to post by projectvxn


excellent post. Add in a lack of basic resources, especially oil products and any campains by China become short. Until a defendable, reliable supply of oil is secured, China's projection of power is limited to Nuclear or other WMDs. Not conventional.

reply to post by oghamxx


All Ying a no Yang.. but
their nukes might work, so it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
Underestimating an adversary is a really stupid and costly mistake.

Exactly, almost every enemy the US has faced has made that mistake.

Good point

reply to post by oghamxx


The biggest disadvantages that China's military has are:
1. They aren't battle tested either in personal or equipment.
2. The structure of Communist armies puts very little weight on individual units adapting to changing battlefield conditions rapidly. They tend to want unit's to "follow orders" rather than think fast on their own feet. Every Soviet trained nation's army has had this very weak link. Their units can't keep up with the fluid conditions once things get heated. Take out their command and control and units just stay static till they are surrounded. Very little initiative in the Soviet military dogma, which China has copied. If things don't follow the script, their units struggle.

They do have numbers and production capabilities though, that can make up for tons of other problems, just ask the Germans on the Eastern Front in WWII.

reply to post by pavil


Still, to even consider a conventional war with China implies invading them. At least from a US viewpoint. There's not enough bullets.LOL.

A stand-off attack of the infrastructure is about the only way to "win". Knock out food distribution, which would incite internal riots and let the whole thing collapse from within....if you can take out their nukes.....

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou

Originally posted by BODYBAGxPAT
reply to post by HattoriHanzou

 

what about when we took russia off of our GPS grid and it stalled them for a few days?


It took them almost as long as it took us to Kick Saddam out of power.


Dont kid yourself, Russia couldnt wipe the United States shoes clean.


Stay at home Russia, dont test us....

I don't think that ever stalled Russia. Some flagged ships may have had navigational issues, but Russia has had their replacement for GPS, called GLONASS, in a fully operational state since 1995.

Russia is not to be trifled with. Look what we did to save our precious ally Georgia when Russia invaded a few years back. Nothing!

Why would we go to war over a war Georgia started and lost? If Russia started the war, or if Georgia asked the US for assurances beforehand and got US troops stationed at the border things may have been different. Georgia made a mistake and paid the price.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Georgia paid the price of an America who's will was tapped and was already way overextended militarily. Putin knew it and took advantage of it. Slick...

Originally posted by nwtrucker
reply to post by pavil

 

Still, to even consider a conventional war with China implies invading them. At least from a US viewpoint. There's not enough bullets.LOL.

A stand-off attack of the infrastructure is about the only way to "win". Knock out food distribution, which would incite internal riots and let the whole thing collapse from within....if you can take out their nukes.....

I don't foresee the U.S. being the aggressor for a change in any conflict with China. Honestly I don't see either country being one for at least a generation or two.China has too much to do to catch up militarily. China is on a more expansionist track than the U.S.( we are already everywhere), thats why I see them being the eventual aggressor more so than the U.S.

Hopefully we just coexist together....... Eventually the combination of communism with capitalism will pose major problems for the Communist Party in China, that will be the real "battle".

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Why would we go to war over a war Georgia started and lost? If Russia started the war, or if Georgia asked the US for assurances beforehand and got US troops stationed at the border things may have been different. Georgia made a mistake and paid the price.

I agree, Georgia miscalculated things badly. There honestly wasn't much we could do, given the situation. Georgia should have realized that, Russia sure did.

We shouldn't underestimate China.. They have the technology, so I guess that would be a great help for their military.