Veneration of the pagan sun god in the beast's mark vs God's mark and seal : powerful video sermon

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


Please do not tell me you're one of those people that is going to say sunday worship is the mark of the beast. If you are all i have to say is:

Matthew 12: 1-10

At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!”

3 But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: 4 how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? 6 Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple. 7 But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Healing on the Sabbath
9 Now when He had departed from there, He went into their synagogue. 10 And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”—that they might accuse Him.

Let you ponder over this one .

If you're not going to advocate sunday worship is the mark of the beast ignore this.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Lonewolf, you are one contradiction after another. Is it not so that Jesus came to fulfill the law? Obviously healing on the sabbath and meal preparation on the sabbath is not unlawful if it was then Jesus' sacrifice would not be worthy to God as He would be blemished. I think you need to do some research into the spirit of sabbath rest that it was to be a delight unto God rather than the spirit of burden that the Pharisees instilled upon people

I have posted another 6 times on this thread which you were on www.abovetopsecret.com... and you have been missing in action, and to my previous posts you were not able to refute. Please respond there, I am still waiting....

Please go to my final post on that thread www.abovetopsecret.com... and see if you can come up with anything comprehensively to argue against the facts I have stated. And even better, please come up with your alternative and I hope it is something better than 'money' this time. Before responding on that thread please read all my posts on that thread and follow the links to all the sources which back up what I say because I don't want to have to repeated myself.

Please, please, please I beg of you to refute this post www.abovetopsecret.com... that shows all major protestant denominations officially know they are in error with scripture in refusing to keep sabbath but proceed on their merry way nonetheless (Rev 13:3 And all the World Wandered After the Beast). Do you think I have no basis to stand on, good one

“They [the Protestants] deem it their duty to keep the Sunday holy. Why? Because the Catholic Church tells them to do so. They have no other reason...The observance of Sunday thus comes to be an ecclesiastical law entirely distinct from the divine law of Sabbath observance...The author of the Sunday law...is the Catholic Church.” — Ecclesiastical Review, February 1914.

“It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.” — Priest Brady, in an address reported in The News, Elizabeth, New Jersey, March 18, 1903.

“It was the Catholic church which...has transferred this rest to Sunday in remembrance of the resurrection of our Lord. Therefore the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) church.” — Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, p. 213.

“Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:

“1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.

“2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws...

“It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible.”

— Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Magazine, USA (1975), Chicago, Illinois, “Under the blessing of the Pope Pius XI”.

I hope you actually watched the video sermon BEFORE you came up with that post!

reply to post by JesuitGarlic



Google "Council of Jerusalem"

You should read it. Wanna know what the seal of God?

John 6:40 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”


Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

BTW, you're supposed to worship everyday

We are not jews, that is what the Council of Jerusalem was all about, because people like you were running around telling the gentile believers they had to learn the laws of Moses and be circumcised and it caused an uproar in the church and So Simon Peter, Andrew, Paul, Barnabas and many others hashed this out and established that we do not have to become jews.

Again i ask you what did Christ command? What are our God's commandments? New covenant bro, get with the program.

Hebrews 8: 7-13

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


Here it is in the OT

Jeremiah 31:31-34

31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[a] says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

This is why we don't run around murdering people, or taking oaths and commiting adultery, or any of the other things.

Originally posted by autowrench
Sun worship flourishes even today in the Catholic faith:
PAGAN SUN WORSHIP AND CATHOLICISM THE MONSTRANCE and the WAFER GOD

:shk: It's this kind of bunk that is the reason this entire forum should be shut down.

For gods sake people ... read the catechism of the Catholic Church and educate yourselves. Catholics do not worship the Sun. Catholics do not worship bread. Catholics worship God alone. Catholics believe in transubstantiation so they worship Christ in the Eucharist. The rays on the monstrance which holds the eucharist are supposed to represent the light of God coming from Christ Himself.

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
scriptural description in the Bible that directly points out the Roman Catholic Church as the beast power that it is from Satan and that God rejects it,

:shk: Dead wrong. That's some serious misguided interpretation you've got going there.


BTW ... people who worship God on Sundays instead of Saturdays are NOT going to Hell.
That's absurd. My God .. where do you people come up with this junk.
nevermind. I don't want to know.

ETA .. you are told to 'pray unceasingly' ... Catholics have mass every day ... mass with scripture readings and worship and songs of praise for God. Just FYI ....

reply to post by FlyersFan


Please list for me all the characteristics you can come up with from the Bible that describes the Sea Beast/Little horn power and I will gladly provide detail upon detail from history that find the papacy and the papacy alone fulfills every one of the characteristics you outline.

Please tell me your alternative to my suggestion of the beast power....provide at least 6 characteristics that your alternative fulfills that is inline with scriptural description.

You are taking what I am saying too personally, God does not mark against anyone things they are in error in when they are not aware that it is against Him. What I am saying is that in the future (and from my understanding what is going on in the world, this will be very close) a future worldwide law will go out forcing people to worship on Sunday and will persecute anyone who keeps the sabbath. I have no beef with everyday Catholic people. I also said that membership to no particular church saves you, that what is most important is your relationship to Jesus.

Don't get me started on the Catholic teaching on Hell...that is a whole other discussion.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I am sorry but I fail to see, please show me where in your verses it displays explicitly the seal of God? Do you even know the components that make up a seal???

Please tell me explicitly where in your verses it outlines God's 'mark'.

Please tell me who is the beast power (if it is different to my suggestion that evidence it will as many characteristics it falls in line with in the Biblical description)? Then, please show me where they say what their 'mark' is and how by keeping it you are paying homage to the Beast as an authority above God (which would meet the criteria as outlined in Revelation 13)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

God's Seal
Components of a seal (think royal seal) to give something authority, must contain:
- Their name
- Their Title
- The area over which they are authorized to rule, that is, their dominion

What is God's seal?
- Name: Lord
- Title: Creator
- Dominion: The heavens, the earth, the sea and everything that is in them

Where do we find God's seal given?
In the giving of the 4th commandant to keep the Sabbath

Exodus 20:11 'For in six days the LORD (Name) made (Title: creator/maker) heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is (dominion), and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
God's mark
source: www.biblicalproportions.com...

Ezekiel 20:12
Moreover also I gave [5414] them my sabbaths, [7676] to be a sign [0226] between me and them, that they might know [3045] that I [am] the LORD [3068] that sanctify [6942] them.

Ezekiel 20:20
And hallow [6942] my sabbaths; [7676] and they shall be a sign [0226] between me and you, that ye may know [3045] that I [am] the LORD [3068] your God. [0430]

Exodus 31:17 It is a sign (Hebrew - 'Owth') between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed

What is the word meaning of this strongs #0226 word

SIGN: Hebrew: 'owth', meaning - sign, token, ensign, mark, a distinguishing mark, signal, banner, remembrance
classic.net.bible.org...
www.blueletterbible.org...
------------------------------------------------------------------

quotes from the Catholic church:

“Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.” — Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

reply to post by FlyersFan

For gods sake people ... read the catechism of the Catholic Church and educate yourselves. Catholics do not worship the Sun. Catholics do not worship bread. Catholics worship God alone. Catholics believe in transubstantiation so they worship Christ in the Eucharist. The rays on the monstrance which holds the eucharist are supposed to represent the light of God coming from Christ Himself.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. Do you really think God has "rays of light" coming off of him? Satan has hidden that idol right in front of your face and you don't even see it. Thats what he does, he hides what he does in plain sight.

You can call that thing whatever you want, but it will always be an idol because it is a graven image made of what is in the heaven. The Monstrance looks exactly like a star/sun and people bow down and revere it. Sungoddess worship, the Queen of Heaven, Ashtoreth or Ishtar, she has many names. The jews call her "the Ruach haKodesh" or Holy Spirit from their Ashtoreth worshipping days. Not saying the Holy Spirit is her, but thats what they were thinking.



Constantine saw a cross under the sun, A cross under an orb or circle which is the symbol for female. This is sungoddess worship. Catholic Mary is Ashtoreth. Ever hear of hotcross buns? Those are for Ashtoreth. Always the circle and cross, sometimes the cross is inside the circle.





Jeremiah 7: 21-27

21 Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: “Add your burnt offerings to your sacrifices and eat meat. 22 For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices. 23 But this is what I commanded them, saying, ‘Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.’ 24 Yet they did not obey or incline their ear, but followed the counsels and the dictates of their evil hearts, and went backward and not forward. 25 Since the day that your fathers came out of the land of Egypt until this day, I have even sent to you all My servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them. 26 Yet they did not obey Me or incline their ear, but stiffened their neck. They did worse than their fathers.

27 “Therefore you shall speak all these words to them, but they will not obey you. You shall also call to them, but they will not answer you.

And Jeremiah 7 continues on to this day.




The sungoddess is everywhere.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

God's Seal
Components of a seal (think royal seal) to give something authority, must contain:
- Their name
- Their Title
- The area over which they are authorized to rule, that is, their dominion

What is God's seal?
- Name: Lord
- Title: Creator
- Dominion: The heavens, the earth, the sea and everything that

You're thinking in human terms. He does not think like we do. His name isn't Lord either, that's Ba'al. YHWH/YHVH means "I AM that I AM". He is also called IEUE.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


In your post to FlyersFan you seem to be nothing but agreeing with me and your BEST rebuttal to my post is 'he does not think like we do'. Soooo according to you Ba'al (aka Satan) wrote the 10 commandments and God gives us the strongest warnings that could harm our eternal inheritance and place alongside Him, the thing He desires for us the most, BUT because you need to not agree with me, GOD somehow must need to give us warnings that devoid of logic or rationality if we were to solve them! Oh course, that must be the God I choose.

RIGHT, case closed........

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Lonewolf, I have a new question for you. I am disappointed that I am not currently well versed enough in the, 'this covenant that covenant' talk to establish the legal credence of the 4th commandment to you as well. I think that this is also an important point to establish that the receiving the beast's mark would legally condemn you before God at Judgement rather than it being based on some arbitrary measure we would be entirely clueless about what it would be.

I just watched two short videos (10mins and 15mins) that I believe present the case for the 10 commandments to still be legally binding using all the relevant covenant talk. Seeing that you are a strong critic of my message and are better versed in an area I am not as strong in (i.e 'covenant talk') I would like you to watch the two following videos and make your comments to me about this. Please give an honest assessment

The Powerful Covenant

The Powerful Covenant pt2: The Gospel Covenant

Because from my perspective there are these New Testament verses which I think you have seen me post before which to me seem pretty clear in support of the commandments still, especially when most of those text are written in the context of God describing who his people will be, separated out from those that will be slain.

John 16:2-4 "...the time is coming that whoever kills you will think he offers God service. And these things they do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. But these things I have told you so that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you them."

1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands

Matthew 19:17 "...but if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments"

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus

Revelation 12:17 "...he [Satan] went to make war with the rest of her offspring [God's people], who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

Matthew 5:18 Verily I say to you, til Heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle may pass away from the law...

passage from this post

But some of your verses presented and those of 'EnochWasRight' seem to make the matter more grey and murky and really I would like things ultimately understood to be more black and white.

Yes, there are Catholic quotes which affirm the biblical position of the Adventist Church over the other protestant churches and the Hebrew parallelism to the stories of King Nebuchadnezzar's golden statue and the plagues from the Exodus story to strongly suggest that God is hinted at us that based on future events of like circumstances that the test will be on one of the commandments (deduced from the golden statue) and more specifically the sabbath from Exodus 5:5 from the Hebrew word (Strong's #7673) translated as rest. But this is not enough for me. In my mind it needs to be established to you that the commandments still apply now or else I am going to get too much resistance with this message from other Christians. So yes, view the videos, research some areas he brings up and try be objective/impartial.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


What are Yeshua's commandments? The new testament is about him taking a people for himself from the gentiles, messianic judaism was the jump point and his wishes were simplified into a form the pagan gentiles could understand and grasp at the Council of Jerusalem.

The entire point of the second covenant was he would write his laws in our minds and on our hearts so we would do them without even thinking. His laws would be grafted into our new spirits that come from him when we convert, his Holy Spirit comes to dwell in us and protects us.

The 4th commandment didn't establish a particular day of rest, just that we should rest from our labors after 6 days of work, to take a day to enjoy for ourselves. Genesis doesn't name what particular day he rested on, nor did he tell the Israelites what day they should rest on. That day was established at Mt. Sinai after Moses had to rewrite the decalogue after breaking the one God wrote with his own hand. Their day of rest was established when they recieved the law. But that law had been broken before Moses ever came off Mt. Sinai with the golden calf to Ashtoreth/Hathor/Ishtar incident.

Matthew 12:1-14 The pharisees accused Yeshua's disciples of breaking the 4th commandment and then accused him of it for healing (working) on the sabbath. They didn't know as much about the laws as Yeshua did because he was the one who wrote them at Mt. Sinai.

1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!”

3 But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: 4 how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? 6 Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple. 7 But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Healing on the Sabbath
9 Now when He had departed from there, He went into their synagogue. 10 And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”—that they might accuse Him.

11 Then He said to them, “What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? 12 Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” 13 Then He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched it out, and it was restored as whole as the other. 14 Then the Pharisees went out and plotted against Him, how they might destroy Him.

He made the days and the nights, they all belong to him. Everything in creation is his, even "Sunday". If Sunday is to be your sabbath then it is your day of rest. The "Sabbath day" is just a prophetic allusion to The Rest in his Millenial reign and the New Heaven and New Earth. That is what the word Shavuot (Sabbath) means is "The Rest". His reign was supposed to have begun at Mt. Sinai during the first Pentecost but the Israelites broke his covenant even before Moses came down so that covenant was negated. In Jeremiah 31:31-34 some 500 years before Yeshua arrived in the flesh he gave Jeremiah the prophecy of the second covenant. The christian/messianic jewish Pentecost in the upper room was that new covenant being established. His crucifixtion was our passover that caused the wrath of God to passover us, Pentecost 50 days later and receiving his Holy Spirit to dwell in us was the confirmation of that second covenant.

The jewish feastdays mirror christianity and here is what they are:

1.Passover: Christ's crucifixtion/resurrection, the Lamb of God sacrificed
2.Shavuot/Pentecost at Mt. Sinai: Pentecost in the Upper Room, Christ's Holy Spirit rules his people
3 Rosh Hoshana (Feast of Trumpets): Rapture/Harpazo calling up
4.Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement): Christ's second coming, Resurrection Day, the first judgement of man
5.Sukkot (Feast of Tabernacles/Booths): Millenial reign, New Heaven and New Earth

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by lacrimaererum

 

It is a sermon outlining what God's Seal is by a study of the Bible and how it is mutually exclusive to the Beast's mark. Quotes are given directly from the beast power telling us what its mark is and that it considers itself above the Bible. The video presents a common sense approach to the subject matter by sticking true to the Word and showing that this final last days test is about your allegiance to God and obedience to Him rather than the fanciful and illogical common thoughts on the mark of the beast given by most Christian like a bar-code,chip ect which defy reason as to how they could legally disqualify us at the judgement from receiving a place in the Book of Life.

When we understand that keeping the beast's mark is a veneration we pay to the sun god who is Lucifer/Satan we can see how this shows your allegiance is to someone other than God, the one who upholds himself above God.

The case is strongly presented that the mark of the beast is something that the vast majority of Christians today (95%+) would receive if they continued on as usual when the beast's mark is enforced by law. Considering this great number, it is valuable information to receive personally but also to pass on to your loved ones as well.

Hosea 4:6 - '...My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge...'

edit on 27-4-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

Definately on his game

reply to post by DominusIlluminatioMea


Is there something about your name 'Illuminatio' that suggest you have some insider information into this?
care to share...

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

JesuitGarlic, I will respond to intelligent posts. A large external quotation is someone else's words....am I to reply to this other person here? You added no words of your own. And it is also T&C to add source links to your quotes.

reply to post by autowrench


The source of the information was provided in an above post

My following information comes primarily from the book called 'The truth about angels'. the book I told you about in an above post

the book, 'The Truth about Angels'. Go Here and search the terms 'ta'.

Yes, perhaps I should have included the relevant link in the post as well...sorry about this.

I provided my take/summary of the information at the end of the quoted information. Perhaps I could have written more but I think the information presented speaks for itself, history speaks for itself and I did not want to interpret the information too much when you can draw your own conclusions from it. I did not want to emphasis my own interpretation of events, that it is primarily the way in which Lucifer instilled discontent in the other angels and by not showing his true character fully to be exposed that we find ourselves in this situation. I wanted you to read the information and come to that conclusion yourself.

The information comes from chapters 3, 4 and 5 of the that book, 'The Truth about Angels' that I would uphold as 'true history'. You can decide from that what you wish, if it helps explain the world situation for you with greater light then so be it, if it doesn't then reject it. Seeing that I can not give you sources from the Bible to prove a point considering your current stance towards the Bible, I am providing the information from a source that is approved by the enemies of God, the Jesuits, to be an accurate source...and a source who "they don't what you to read because you will know all their plans" (statement on video probably mostly in reference to the latter half of the book, 'The Great Controversy' though can apply somewhat to chp 20 of this book too).

Yes, I could have tried cutting the info down to a smaller size, but each paragraph I left expressed things so well and contained vital nuances to form the greater picture.

You can debate who's words to reply to....the point of the source is that it is not some much the accuracy of what is said, the person is considered to be the only prophet that has come in the modern era (and perhaps much longer than that) and the information comes relayed directly from God (of course other Christian denominations might debate that though!), so the accuracy of the information is not in question, it is the content of the information that matters. Altering the information to my own slant would have only taken away from the power of it and how it was to be read. You don't need to believe the info comes from God by this women used by God as his prophet. Just read it and contend if it helps explain the world situation for you and why God is currently allowing Satan to live when Christians say that our God is all powerful and can destroy him at any time....
Anything you are not sure about then ask questions....usually the the writing style is fairly self explanatory and all relevant details are provided in one place, as opposed tho the Bible where you have to jump from one place to the next each time. I will be happy to hear your comments on how clear the world situation is explained to you and our role in it

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I will do a short reply now (cos I am still working on a longer one) as I just discovered a nice little verse that I thought went very well. Establishing the legal right to be still judged against the 10 commandments in the context of the end-days testing.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city

Hmmm....the noose is tightening on you Lonewolf....it is but a matter of time

I will give you a small taste of defeat now with one of your own lines of argument against you, from Isaiah 66:22, 23 see link

Originally posted by JesuitGarlic
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

I will do a short reply now (cos I am still working on a longer one) as I just discovered a nice little verse that I thought went very well. Establishing the legal right to be still judged against the 10 commandments in the context of the end-days testing.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city

Hmmm....the noose is tightening on you Lonewolf....it is but a matter of time

I will give you a small taste of defeat now with one of your own lines of argument against you, from Isaiah 66:22, 23 see link

Second Covenant bro. What are Yeshua's commandments? He is our God, his commandments we must keep. This is not a game for me so stow your "defeat" comments.

Hebrews 8:7-12

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

edit on 2-5-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I am just trying to get some more info to understand your way of thinking of how I should approach the discussion.

Is it accurate to say that, through faith alone the power of the Holy Spirit 'does' or 'can' fulfill the commandments within you when you are tempted, not through your own power (thus the need for the second covenant) but through God. If so, how would faith in action work in a practical sense against some temptation of transgression of the commandments then, does someone need to merely believe Jesus is God or do they need to die completely to self for God's will and pray earnestly for the required strength from the Holy Spirit to remain free from transgression?

Even if we are a 'believer' the Holy Spirit can still depart from us correct, so to you what are the things we do that can push the Holy Spirit out from us and away from being cloaked in righteousness. Is it not so that faith in action is obedience to God's commands and when we are not obedient (thus showing our faith) the Holy Spirit can withdraw from us.

I want to emphasis the difference between 'does' and 'can' as the impression I am getting from you and EnochWasRight is that you hold the position of 'does', meaning that no earnestness of continually seeking the Lord because of our own weakness is needed. I wanted to clarify is this was an accurate representation.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Would you also agree that the 'fault' in the old covenant was not in the 10 commandments themselves but in the terms of the agreement on the object of the 10 commandment that the people themselves could not keep them in their own strength?

Considering the fact that Psalms 19:7 tells us 'The law of the LORD is perfect'. Is your answer a yes?

And you would agree that Jesus was under the law and had to fulfill it perfectly or else he would not have been an unblemished sacrifice in our place acceptable before the Father ( I am trying to determine what the point you were trying to make citing Matthew 12:1-14 when it only supports my case and not yours)?

Because to me it seems like you are citing texts with a couple of key words that support your current stance with little understanding of what the full meaning of the passage entails.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

........history speaks for itself and I did not want to interpret the information too much when you can draw your own conclusions from it.

Yes, History does speak for itself, that is a given. Why is it that mainstream Christianity ignores Ancient History, and call it "Myth," while their own Myths are "Truth," and "Words of the True God."
What I am trying to say here, friend, is I can show you a truth, something from history, and your dogma filters will always see it as a myth, and fiction. This is the so called Rose Colored Glasses Syndrome, where everything is seen through a self imposed filter.

I did not want to emphasis my own interpretation of events, that it is primarily the way in which Lucifer instilled discontent in the other angels and by not showing his true character fully to be exposed that we find ourselves in this situation. I wanted you to read the information and come to that conclusion yourself.

Really? It seems to me that you place emphasis on all of your religious dogma, in an attempt to get us all to see the things you see, in the way that you see them....and friend, I hate to burst that particular bubble, but you will never be able to make everyone thing and act like you do. For instance, your use of the word "Lucifer." Have you taken into account the origins of the word, in that it is a Latin word? No? I detailed this fact here:
Conspiracy of the Century...Jesus and Lucifer, One and the Same!
Friend, I hate to tell you, but a book is generally just a book. Just because someone writes a book about Angels and calls it true, doesn't mean the book contains facts, and I will tell you why this is.
The word angels is derived from the Greek word angelos, which means messenger. Malakh, the Hebrew word for angel, also means messenger, and both words nicely coincide with the Persian word for angel, Angaros, similarly meaning a courier.
So, what supernatural powers do you attach to them? Have you got it figured out yet that these Angels are nothing more than ET Beings who once walked upon the Earth as Gods?
There are many times in the Bible, Angels appear to be men, and are described as such from Genesis (when Jacob wrestles an Angel) to Revelation (the letters to each of the churches are addressed to the pastors, or "Angels" of each church).
Even the name given to the Archangel Gabriel means, "Man of God." Furthermore, in the NT, didn't Jesus teach (in the gospel of Matthew) that during the resurrection, those raised would be "as" (or like) the "Angels of God in heaven?"
By the way, the word "Lord" means a "person" also, look it up if you doubt me.

You can decide from that what you wish, if it helps explain the world situation for you with greater light then so be it, if it doesn't then reject it. Seeing that I can not give you sources from the Bible to prove a point considering your current stance towards the Bible, I am providing the information from a source that is approved by the enemies of God, the Jesuits...

What is it with you people and having to have an enemy at all times?
All I told you, and have told others like you, is simple, want me to hear you? Then tell me what you think! I know the origins of your little black book of lies and myths, and probably have a better working knowledge of it than you do. I have several Bibles here at my disposal, pages littered with bookmarks, and over 10,000 live bookmarks on my X-Marks Server. Finding things in the Bible is an easy task for someone who have done it many times.

I will tell you where I am. If God/Goddess wishes to talk to me, here I am. Anyone who says they speak for same I do not hear. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps the Godhead is already speaking through me, and directing it to you? You seem to stand, along with a few others, on a very high mountain. You state empathetically that you speak the truth, and all secular people speak lies. You tell a convincing story of legions of demons and devils that are waiting to grab us all if we do not immediately join your cult of religion, worship your idea of God, and perform the rituals of your dogma.
You hold up a heavily altered and edited book containing many translation errors and outright untruths like a shield, like it will protect you from the evils your own people have created.

I will happily discuss theology with you. I am a Wiccan, better bone up on what that means before throwing labels and personal insults at me. I would say better read up on some of my posts beforehand also, there is a great deal of biblical history already written down in here.