"Gas prices seen headed lower at the pump"

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool

Originally posted by HawkeyeNation
We are a bunch of dummies. The speculation lowers this time of year just in time for summer. They gave us a feel of $5/gallon. Now they lower it to $4.50 and all people can say is "I'm just glad it's not $5" when it was $4 last year. This summer we will see $5.50 - $6 per gallon.

Maybe regulating the markets more effectively might be the answer do you think?


So you would like to see the price of gas drop it sounds like. Why do you think that would be a good thing?

edit on 26-4-2012 by LilDudeissocool because: (no reason given)

The problem is they slap the speculators on the hand and it's good for a few months & then they are back at it. Money makes this world go round and who is going to stop that? Ron Paul maybe?

To answer your second question the answer is yes. I want to see the price of gas drop along with 99% of all other average americans. The price of gasoline has a trickle down effect and we wonder why our economy is suffering.
1)Gas price goes up
2)Shipping prices go up
3)Businesses have to raise price of product to accommodate the higher shipping costs
4)Businesses have to lay people off because price of product is to high for consumers
5)Businesses shut the doors because no one is still buying the product
6)Unemployed file for unemployment/welfare
7)Taxes go up so the people who do work can support the people who dont work
8)The people who do work have to have house foreclosed
9)Bank has to take house with no buyers and try to sell it $50,000 below what is left owed to them
10)Banks in turn hide their accounts and are eventually revealed as frauds
11)Investors lose all their money and end up in the same place we are
12)On and on and on and on and on....you get the point.

reply to post by Skewed


You don't know who I signed it with. No one does here so it's except. I can tell you it's a private entity.

You sound a bit sarcastic so I wont wast my time here digressing way off into never never land explaining in detail where the money that feeds the FED's Discount money primarily comes from. I will tell you this much.

The amount of total dollars in circulation at any given time is is all about maintaining a certain steady worth of the USD. It always looses an accounting value over time as there always must be a little more money injected into the USD economy than is demanded as liquidity must be maintained within the marketplace otherwise the markets would freeze and there would be a high rate of deflation. it's hard to restart an economy after that happening. So there is no inflation tax nor does the FED inject money into the USD economy that is not backed with deposits held in its member banks by bank sales of CDs. Mostly bought in great quantities by oil producing nations and their oil companies, some state owned and even those are mostly partnered with Western oil companies. All feed the Fed's Discount Window with liquidity.

Monetizing of public debt is a myth also.


When they purchase U.S. Treasuries that is not monetizing a debt because the money has already been accounted for in the economy when the oil which created the wealth in the first place was sold on the open market.


There are other popular myths I know about also regarding such matter. I would most like to share them with you and others here. Thing is the misinformation that counters the truth I can share with you has already taken hold. That is you and others would simply believe what you only a have faith in. The religion of macro economic conspiracy.

What do you think Ron Paul is about?

His primary purpose is to popularize misinformation so people will remain ignorant about how macro economics actually works and there for can not make informed voting decisions that would lead to energy and thus banking freedoms.

Ron Paul the high priest of The religion of macro economic conspiracy.

I'm sure you think he and others like him know what they are talking about and why you take a mocking tone to what I have said in very short simple form that can't be disputed with actual facts, only with popular mythical believes that are based entirely on faith.

Because of that faith people will remain slaves to big energy and big energy's central banks located around the world that operate petrol-currencies. A system that imprisons everyone in perpetual debt both public and private.


Now I must go practice in my backyard with my lightsaber.

Originally posted by HawkeyeNation

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool

Originally posted by HawkeyeNation
We are a bunch of dummies. The speculation lowers this time of year just in time for summer. They gave us a feel of $5/gallon. Now they lower it to $4.50 and all people can say is "I'm just glad it's not $5" when it was $4 last year. This summer we will see $5.50 - $6 per gallon.

Maybe regulating the markets more effectively might be the answer do you think?


So you would like to see the price of gas drop it sounds like. Why do you think that would be a good thing?

edit on 26-4-2012 by LilDudeissocool because: (no reason given)

The problem is they slap the speculators on the hand and it's good for a few months & then they are back at it. Money makes this world go round and who is going to stop that? Ron Paul maybe?

To answer your second question the answer is yes. I want to see the price of gas drop along with 99% of all other average americans. The price of gasoline has a trickle down effect and we wonder why our economy is suffering.
1)Gas price goes up
2)Shipping prices go up
3)Businesses have to raise price of product to accommodate the higher shipping costs
4)Businesses have to lay people off because price of product is to high for consumers
5)Businesses shut the doors because no one is still buying the product
6)Unemployed file for unemployment/welfare
7)Taxes go up so the people who do work can support the people who dont work
8)The people who do work have to have house foreclosed
9)Bank has to take house with no buyers and try to sell it $50,000 below what is left owed to them
10)Banks in turn hide their accounts and are eventually revealed as frauds
11)Investors lose all their money and end up in the same place we are
12)On and on and on and on and on....you get the point.

Sorry I didn't see your post last time I was here checking on my thread. I clicked out right after I posted my last response.

Very impressive! That's what I was looking for.

You have it all spot on how higher energy prices effect everything down stream as energy is at the headwaters of the entire economy. The springs of economy that is.

For Ron Paul. In my personal opinion he has not a clue about macro economics. I think he is a pseudo economist who should leave congress and go back to delivering babies, or maybe teach OBGYN, if he is to old to go back into practice.


A note to all, please respond like HawkeyeNation did?


That's an incredible response! Just what I was looking for.

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool

Originally posted by doobydoll
What makes me angry is that when oil prices increase, fuel prices increase immediately or overnight at the pump. But when oil decreases in price, it takes a few weeks for it to show at the pump.

That's your local energy retailer who is solely to blame for that.

I believe there should be a retail energy transparency law where energy retailers must post their average ratios between their wholesale costs and retail prices per gallon.

It isn't just the local retailers, they ALL do it, and they do it every time there's an increase in oil prices. Pump prices increase immediately, but never decrease immediately.

reply to post by doobydoll


I meant, local energy retailers across the county, "all."

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool

Road Worriers scenario, hey? Do you think that's a good thing, and why or why not?

I think it's an honest assessment and I think it's a worst case scenario, not a positive one. In noting Skewed's comment about eggs and omletes, I wonder how many people who say those things would feel as casual if they knew fate had selected them as one of the eggs to be broken in the opening phases of unrest? As the Dad to a special needs boy, I have to be realistic. Whatever my chances of survival if our nation really falls apart, HIS are bleak and if something does happen to me, his and his Mom's chances probably drop by 50%. So.. Definitely NOT a good thing.

Something else to consider... the prices people see in the stores. They keep going up and up and up. SOME of that is raw materials. A LARGE % of that is passing on the Fuel Surcharge that trucking charges back as a special line item that can sometimes rival the freight bill itself. The last company I worked for the last 5 years trucking gave us dispatch sheets that showed line haul charges and that Fuel surcharge as separate items so I saw regularly what it came to. That figure is set by a public formula based on Department of Energy figures on what was a weekly basis when I left. It starts after 9/11.....

Sooooo.... $9 a gallon for the 4 wheelers will be $10-$11 for trucks and gas won't be half the problem buying a loaf of bread for under $5 or a bag of Oranges for under $20 will be. Oh..Unrest would absolutely come at those prices once the impact worked through the system, and it wouldn't take long at all.

Well, this seems to be a more agenda driven conversation so I doubt my always evil liberal analysis will be welcome, but I will try anyway.

It's not about what I want. It's about what is going to happen. If you get angry about what follows it's akin to you getting angry for saying the sky is blue. Facts are facts.

Gas will go down, but not by much. The Floor is three dollars now. Probably more like 3.30 to 3.40, I would be surprised to see the average fall below that. Why will they go down? Because expensive gas causes people to drive less as they can't afford it, but only for so long. The price drops a little, they use a little more, price goes up again. We have seen the Floor for gasoline increase every year for quite some time. There's no getting around it, by the end of the year 4 dollars will be the new floor. If you want some better analysis, look at this: www.theoildrum.com...

World supply is not increasing, yet demand is. China put 20 million cars on the road last year alone. Not replacements, first time drivers. Demand is only going to get higher. This is what is pushing the price up. Speculation is part of it, but it will never be banned so it's kind of pointless to talk about it. This is the peak oil bumpy decline that has been discussed frequently.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool

Road Worriers scenario, hey? Do you think that's a good thing, and why or why not?

I think it's an honest assessment and I think it's a worst case scenario, not a positive one. In noting Skewed's comment about eggs and omletes, I wonder how many people who say those things would feel as casual if they knew fate had selected them as one of the eggs to be broken in the opening phases of unrest? As the Dad to a special needs boy, I have to be realistic. Whatever my chances of survival if our nation really falls apart, HIS are bleak and if something does happen to me, his and his Mom's chances probably drop by 50%. So.. Definitely NOT a good thing.

Something else to consider... the prices people see in the stores. They keep going up and up and up. SOME of that is raw materials. A LARGE % of that is passing on the Fuel Surcharge that trucking charges back as a special line item that can sometimes rival the freight bill itself. The last company I worked for the last 5 years trucking gave us dispatch sheets that showed line haul charges and that Fuel surcharge as separate items so I saw regularly what it came to. That figure is set by a public formula based on Department of Energy figures on what was a weekly basis when I left. It starts after 9/11.....

Sooooo.... $9 a gallon for the 4 wheelers will be $10-$11 for trucks and gas won't be half the problem buying a loaf of bread for under $5 or a bag of Oranges for under $20 will be. Oh..Unrest would absolutely come at those prices once the impact worked through the system, and it wouldn't take long at all.

edit on 26-4-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

Your in depth outline of what you first posted is impressive like HawkeyeNation's last post.

You recognize that fuel costs are a primary driver of inflation? I like that because more people need to understand this fact.

If people do they will demand more regulation on the fuel markets and demand that more supply of fuels are made available.

OPEC needs to be broken. We need to do everything in our power to brake it. It's a matter of long-term economic survival as a nation and thus should be part of a long-term national security strategy.

Even Donald Trump gets that one. Someone who can develop property fairly competently, but doesn't really know beans about macro economics. Not his fault he simply does not have access to the necessary information. He's a bank customer, not a bank nor a partner therein.

Originally posted by antonia
Well, this seems to be a more agenda driven conversation so I doubt my always evil liberal analysis will be welcome, but I will try anyway.

It's not about what I want. It's about what is going to happen. If you get angry about what follows it's akin to you getting angry for saying the sky is blue. Facts are facts.

Gas will go down, but not by much. The Floor is three dollars now. Probably more like 3.30 to 3.40, I would be surprised to see the average fall below that. Why will they go down? Because expensive gas causes people to drive less as they can't afford it, but only for so long. The price drops a little, they use a little more, price goes up again. We have seen the Floor for gasoline increase every year for quite some time. There's no getting around it, by the end of the year 4 dollars will be the new floor. If you want some better analysis, look at this: www.theoildrum.com...


World supply is not increasing, yet demand is. China put 20 million cars on the road last year alone. Not replacements, first time drivers. Demand is only going to get higher. This is what is pushing the price up. Speculation is part of it, but it will never be banned so it's kind of pointless to talk about it. This is the peak oil bumpy decline that has been discussed frequently.

That's because the worth of the USD overtime is set by the price of energy and that price is set artificially by restricting supply.

PS
Just because you are a liberal does not mean your thoughts are not welcome here. Be it a conservative comment or a liberal one does not necessarily mean it's not the truth, or valid in a discussion as I think was the point you were conveying. The truth is always welcomed on my threads. Those who disagree with the truth are often simply holding on to beliefs that make them feel comfortable, and that's what disagreeing with the truth is usually about. The only other reason is a con being played either for entertainment or profit.

reply to post by antonia

You know, I really do debate the idea that demand is going up when people talking about it in terms of the Western World and most of the rest of the planet with paved roads. China though... Now there is a whole different thing. They are advancing by leaps and bounds. They seem to be jumping in their development by a decade of our 20th century time every few years and with a population well north of 1 billion people.

Yeah, with China, the demand is enough to choke about. Perhaps THEY ought to be pushing harder with alternative energy and vehicle propulsion development. I hear their air pollution is far worse than our bad days here. A book (China Inc.) I'd read a few years ago had a number I've never forgotten. At that time, the estimated migrant worker population within China, which are those that move between cities or from the countryside to the cities and back again for work, number 300 MILLION. That is just a little shy of our entire population to the last child. ....just their migrant population.

I suppose China's population starting to get cars on a national level will be changing the whole world energy market by sheer scale of numbers. Kinda like the U.S. building interstates after World War II and starting to consume gas like we meant it.

reply to post by LilDudeissocool


Ours just went up...we now pay $1.66 per litre.

What are you paying per gallon?

Given 1 gallon = 3.78 litres..unless you're paying $6.10 per gallon you've got it good


Ro..

I want gas prices to go up and get everyone dependant on the goverment for everything.

I think its the only way we will make it through the next century.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Thing is everything is moving globally toward what the Chevrolet Volt is, but with CNG turbines used as a power plant. Just "gas turbines" rather as the gas is not compressed when fed into the turbine for combustion. Gasoline is of the past, and CNG electric plug-ins are of the future When that future arrives everyone on the planet can have a car and run it cheaply. Even trucks will run on that power plant system. Trains too. The impacts of energy prices on consumer price index will fall, and people will have more in their pocket that they have worked so hard for. They will be able to work less and have more leisure time if they wish.

The future looks bright for all, we just have to wait, but still pressure our elected officials to get money out of politics and then have the ability to get energy off the back of the global economy.

Originally posted by Rosha
reply to post by LilDudeissocool

 

Ours just went up...we now pay $1.66 per litre.

What are you paying per gallon?

Given 1 gallon = 3.78 litres..unless you're paying $6.10 per gallon you've got it good

Ro..

edit on 27-4-2012 by Rosha because: (no reason given)

Nothing is good unless the price of energy is within a reasonable window of the ratio between what your parents and grandparents paid for products and service compared to what their incomes were for relatively the same amount and type of work they did. People over time should see energy prices fall every generation, see their work become more efficient, CPI fall and have more and more leisure time with every passing generation, not have it trend in the opposite direction. Prices are trending in the opposite direction because free markets are not being allowed to function properly. That directly due to energy cartels that are ripping everyone off.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
I want gas prices to go up and get everyone dependant on the goverment for everything.

I think its the only way we will make it through the next century.

You must be being sarcastic. If what you say happened we would be dependent on a plutocracy which members would march us off to death camps if not employable to serve them producing luxury goods and services.

reply to post by Wertdagf


PS There would be no one left to be dependent on the government. If there were, the plutocrats would simply let people starve and freeze to death who they did not employ at meager wages. Any survivors would be marched off to death camps eventually.


Just watch Fox News and the politicians they promote. They are quite clear about doing away with what they see as deadwood.

i cringe everytime i go to the gas station. the higher price of oil hurts everything, no one wants to go anywhere or do anything when gas costs so much. if you think people are complaining about wages now, throw in higher gas and groceries to the mix and you have a recipe for disaster. i support obamas plan to look for alternative, cheaper energy sources. in the meantime i say he floods the market with some of our oil reserves at cost. say something a kin to food stamps but more like oil stamps, that could help boost the economy and take a load of stress off the average american.

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool
CNN Money article> money.cnn.com...

I'm curious, "Who here thinks this is good or bad news?"

I'm specifically asking:

Who here wants to see gas prices go up, and why?

AND

Who here wants to see gas prices lower, and why?

Are there any here who think gas prices are currently priced within a reasonable window? Comments can be in regards to both wholesale and retail.

The graph in the article is rather small. A bit like the hockey stick graph.



Now if you look at a somewhat bigger picture.



Nooo not measured in age old ice cores, but measured by me over the past 5 years, every time I filled my car up. I went from gasoline to diesel some time back, but since the price of gas is coupled to that of diesel overhere that doesn't matter for the graph.

The first bulge before the sharp fall was the moment there were lots of protests with truckers blocking highways and all. The sharp drop coincides with the beginning of the financial crisis.

Looking purely at the fractal trend in the graph I guess a second sharp drop is not far away.

But that might not be good news at all.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


They are pushing hard on alternative energy. You just haven't been playing attention. They are installing huge solar farms in their country. They are in a unique position because they have the bulk of the rare earth materials (such as lithium) used for said alternative energies. They can black mail everyone else on this planet when the energy crunch really sets in. By then even the denialists around here will be unable to argue with it anymore.

India is also experiencing rapid growth, as well as many other Asian nations. It is the rise in their standard of living that is fueling world-wide demand.

reply to post by conspiracy nut


Fuel coupons. You know that's a really good idea. They could convert the oil subs big oil receives to just such a program.


Did you come up with that? If you did, you should work policy at DoE.