We may have just got screwed!!!!!!!

reply to post by Blaine91555


I actually hope I am wrong...

It is how it could play... the law is there making it an easy win....


it would actually work to the Dems advantage...

They just used a republican law for national security....

reply to post by ripcontrol


The justices themselves said this: The law cannot be a violation of the 4th amendment because the originating stop was during the commission of a crime. While stopped or detained for the consequence of the crime committed local law enforcement may contact the Federal Government in regards to citizen status.

So.. essentially you're wrong. But I gave you a star for the video.

The OP made it sound as if the men in black coates will be dragging people out of their houses and arresting them. Sounds like fear mongering to me...

Originally posted by brettrix
reply to post by ripcontrol

 

The illegals tend to crash and kill people more than any other demographic.They disregard all of our laws such that the rule of law is bending and soon will break.

I do sympathize with Arizona people for this.

SB 1070 does not allow any law enforcement official to stop anyone they desire and perform a citizenship check... in fact, the law enforcement do not even EVER perform a citizenship check.... ICE performs the check. I have no problem with requesting ICE to verify citizenship of those people who HAVE ALREADY BROKEN an Arizona State law and are being arrested... Right now about 40% of our inmates in Pinal county are illegal and that costs $$$.


You need to understand that the media and even the president have lied about SB1070... That's right, president Obama lies and mislead the American public by saying SB1070 allows police to stop people on their way to a pizza... That was a lie and people believed it without verifying it.

2(B), requires police officers to check the immigration status of anyone whom they arrest;
This is perfectly acceptable, there is no problem with this, but this part is not what is at issue.
Section 2(B) also allows police to stop and arrest anyone whom they believe to be an illegal immigrant.

This part of the section allows for racial profiling, to pull someone over and then detain them based on skin color alone, without any other probable cause.


Finally, in Section 6, the law gives a police officer the power to arrest someone, without a warrant, if the officer believes that he has committed a crime that could cause him to be deported, no matter where the crime may have occurred.

If there was evidence for an arrest, then the rest would fall into place within already constructed laws, but this is allowing for an arrest based on suspicion, not probable cause. This is a serious problem constitutionally, and can and will effect Americans in the future.

There should be a middle ground somewhere, you should not give up your constitutional rights to fight a problem. Americans seem to think that your constitutional rights should be given up, rather than preserved. They are there to protect you, while on rare occasions they can work to protect others, they protect you every single day of your life.

Find a way to deal with the problem without breaking or bending on constitutional rights. If people were actually deported for being illegal after an arrest, or other legal means of deciphering the status of an individual, if checks on the immigration status of persons were as quick as a drivers license check, then you would not have the concern of having to leave the constitution aside to protect yourself.

I think this is why the government makes things so difficult, to make you willing to erode the constitution.

Trust me, neither Obama nor Arizona State care about your problems, Obama is only using this as a re-elect Obama campaign strategy, and Arizona is using an existing problem to further erode your constitutional rights. If anyone cared, they would make it possible, and easy, to enforce already existing laws, rather than see what they can sneak into law that takes away your rights as citizens.

reply to post by ripcontrol


To me it all boils down to our government doing one of its first responsibilities which is protecting our borders and sovereignty. It would be a wonderful world if it were not necessary and I'd love a world like that. It does not exist however.

They are willing to risk our lives to secure a voting block they need to get elected. It's all is very clear in fact.

When you have nothing to run on except fear and hate, you play it to the limit.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Papers please...meanwhile, let me strip search you while your being detained.

Thanks neocons.

The Fed never did their job. Now because of Arizona they are lashing back....Thanks liberals.

Yes, because from 2000 to 2006, it was purely liberals running the country.
-checks facts-
oh, nevermind, it was the exact opposite.

Pay lip service to whatever you want. You know who actually doesn't want anything done with illegal immigrants? quite easy...corporations that use them.
Liberals can stand on principle about how draconian measures shouldn't be taken, conservatives have only corruption to blame for doing equally nothing.
Under Obama, there has been far more of a crackdown federally on illegals than the previous administration. Wonder why that is.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Since when did the Dept. of Homeland Security care about the Constitution?

Originally posted by F4guy
There is one major flaw in your premise and that is that TSA screeners/clerks are not law enforcement officers. They are low-grade dull normal clerks with no power to detain or arrest. If they want someone detained, they must arrange for someone with law enforcement powers to do so.

Of which whom will be standing ready.

Can a cop pull you over and detain you while he searches you and your car for your drivers license, registration and proof of insurance? Of course with "probable cause", but it would seem a ridiculous waste of time as most people ARE law abiding and have the documents readily available. It is likely that they will do profiling but randomly pull over non suspicious people just to make it look good.

This law doesn't make it any easier to detain you and search your car, because it is NOT hard by any means now. But one thing that it does give them that they didn't have before is the power to ask for proof of citizenship. This is the ONLY thing in the new law I agree with.

We should get rid of those job-sucking low wage creating illegals. But we don't need this law to do it. All they need to do is to enforce the current laws.


-Alien

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by ripcontrol

 

To me it all boils down to our government doing one of its first responsibilities which is protecting our borders and sovereignty. It would be a wonderful world if it were not necessary and I'd love a world like that. It does not exist however.

They are willing to risk our lives to secure a voting block they need to get elected. It's all is very clear in fact.

When you have nothing to run on except fear and hate, you play it to the limit.

I have a question for you.

1) Are there not existing laws concerning the turning away of illegal immigrants at the border?
2) Are there not existing laws concerning the deportation of illegal immigrants?
3) Were police able to check on citizenship status of an individual they arrested for an unrelated crime prior to this law? (Yes is this answer)

So why is there even an ounce of necessity for NEW laws?

A.) there is not, all you need to do is enforce existing laws and you would not be seeing any problems.

If an additional measure is needed then have employers team up with immigration because a person is giving a prospective employer the right to check on their legal right to be in this country and to work.

Many things can be done, WITHIN the framework of existing laws. But they are not doing them, not because their hands are tied, they are simply biding their time and waiting for YOU to get so fed up with the problem your willing to hand over your constitutional rights on a silver platter!

Read my previous post about the constitutional issues with this new law in Arizona. They will affect you! www.abovetopsecret.com... Because if SCOTUS decides these are constitutional laws then every state in the nation will be free to add them to their repertoire of laws.




And if SCOTUS decides these laws are constitutional? Then Americans should hang it up because the only check and balance left for that constitution will have sold out on you.

The buck stops here...........RIGHT HERE!

Fourth Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against
unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue,
but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the
place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


This is the law of these United States of America.

Once again we are questioning erroneous details when we already have the answer........

The only equivocation in the Fourth Amendment is the word "unreasonable", but that
word is then qualified for anyone who can interpret the English language-- "...probable cause,
supported by oath or affirmation."

In THIS country the government cannot stop people, detain them, and scrutinize them and their
belongings based on a racial profile. IT IS AGAINST THE LAW OF THE LAND.

Everything else is obfuscation and diversion. Don't buy into it. Make the federal government
do its job and shut down the border---cancel FEMA and DHS, and what the hell, the TSA
and rehire those displaced as border agents....build a fence equipped with the latest technology
and shut the damn border down....and keep your damn hands off my freedom!

reply to post by ripcontrol


"YOUR PAPERS?" WHERE ARE YOUR PAPERS?"

But hey! It's all in the name of security, who needs privacy and rights when you're safe. Don't you see how unsafe it is! Obviously this is the only answer...

But seriously, America. It's time. WAKE UP! There is 300+ million of you. What happened to the whole standing up for yourself thing...

Wait a second- its jersday- no one is listening.

Sigh... Bad day to quit the narcotics

Tribaltrip

reply to post by rival


But again. DHS and TSA don't seem to care about the 4th amendment. They search people without a warrant on a daily basis at the airport. Now on Busses in Houston.

Originally posted by Jameela


And if SCOTUS decides these laws are constitutional? Then Americans should hang it up because the only check and balance left for that constitution will have sold out on you.

edit on 26-4-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)

People are so hung up on the immigration issue they can't see it. There is so much wrong with it, here's why I believe this

1. A provision compelling police to question the immigration status of individuals they suspect are undocumented, 2. A provision allowing police to arrest such individuals without a warrant,

What if I just change this language to make it anyone I "suspect" of being a drug user? Or a thief? Generally you need evidence beyond mere suspicion for an arrest. I can't just look at you and say "You stole something" or "You killed that guy" then throw you in jail. The problem is the nativism argument has been wrapped up in this and people can't see what an insane power grab it is. There are already laws on the books, there is no need for this.

But, they will get what the want. The SCTOUS is going to let it stand. I have no doubt about that. It's why I keep telling people with the means to just leave. This country is getting worse and worse everyday. No matter who gets in that office the game remains the same.

reply to post by ripcontrol


I live here. They cannot at all stop anyone of us on purpose. They pull us over on a routine traffic violation then yes are you an immigrant? If walking down the street minding my business, not breaking a law, no they cannot do it on purpose.

We need this law to pass. So true American citizens can have their jobs back! This is a casino town, like a mini Las Vegas. Outsiders do not know that illegals are hired all the time. You cannot even get maid service without learning a foreign language.

The casino owners should be ASHAMED of themselves doing this to become richer and use cheap labor! There are people sleeping on the street here and begging for jobs! REAL Americans!

It is time we take a stand and make things count and take our country back! Business owners should be fined and definitely know better! There should be laws against business owners that do these unfair practices!

I got 2 sons serving this country! I am proud of them! I want them to be able to find jobs and treated fairly not passed over.

This is my 2 cents!

reply to post by cheri2012


If this law was needed for that, then why do police, in other states where there are no laws concerning legal rights of law enforcement to ask a person their legal status and if they can provide documentation of the same, already ask these types of questions? (I have experienced this personally when driving on a holiday)

Why do they board buses and ask people for their documentation of their legal status in this country and detain them if no proof is had? (I have witnessed this in texas and california while i was riding on a bus, many people who did not have immediate proof were removed from the bus and arrested)

These two things I have experienced or witnessed, in states with no laws concerning it, so ask yourself why it is necessary to create new laws making it legal(?) to enforce existing laws.... its either that or, they are sneaking laws in there that will affect everyone regardless of race or immigration status.

BTW-

Arizona- sb 1070


it is a real simple thing... at first yes my mind also reached the car thing and I still caught myself doing it...

it does not specify modes of transportation ectra but can be used ....


since some are focusing on this, think of checkpoint...

legal stop
you can ask during a legal stop

or the nasty one

"May I see your ID?"

cops have the right to ask it...and it is a legal stop
your walking with your kids... poof they can ask for a Id and poof legal stop...
The phrase I heard was, "We have reports in this area..."

it is a legal stop...


My understanding of the way the law interprets it...

your in front of me for a reason
I now can quiz you...
quizzing is allowed

I respectfully disagree it is abuse-able... and legal...


___________________________________________________________________


Random Checkpoint

A random checkpoint (also known as a "flying checkpoint", "mobile checkpoint" or "hasty checkpoint") is a military and police tactic involving the set up of a hasty roadblock primarily by mobile truck-mounted infantry or police units in order to disrupt unauthorized or unwanted movement and/or military activity.[1]
Random checkpoints are set up to achieve surprise, as opposed to known permanently located manned checkpoints. They might be established in locations where they cannot be observed by approaching traffic until it is too late to withdraw and escape without being observed.[2]

now they have stopped you and are allowed to

but not why I mentioned this an insight was here

However, by a 6-3 decision in Michigan Dept. of State Police v. Sitz (1990), the United States Supreme Court found properly conducted sobriety checkpoints to be constitutional. While acknowledging that such checkpoints infringed on a constitutional right, Chief Justice Rehnquist argued the state interest in reducing drunk driving outweighed this minor infringement.

This law if passed is only a minor infringement... might make it if this is the court opinion


Please understand this is not an IMMIGRATION thread.....

Originally posted by cheri2012
reply to post by ripcontrol

 

I live here. They cannot at all stop anyone of us on purpose. They pull us over on a routine traffic violation then yes are you an immigrant? If walking down the street minding my business, not breaking a law, no they cannot do it on purpose.

We need this law to pass. So true American citizens can have their jobs back! This is a casino town, like a mini Las Vegas. Outsiders do not know that illegals are hired all the time. You cannot even get maid service without learning a foreign language.

The casino owners should be ASHAMED of themselves doing this to become richer and use cheap labor! There are people sleeping on the street here and begging for jobs! REAL Americans!

It is time we take a stand and make things count and take our country back! Business owners should be fined and definitely know better! There should be laws against business owners that do these unfair practices!

I got 2 sons serving this country! I am proud of them! I want them to be able to find jobs and treated fairly not passed over.

This is my 2 cents!

Your post makes me so angry I can hardly form sentences. Do you not realize that while your sons
are AT WAR fighting for YOUR freedoms, you are giving them away on a whim.

The freedom your boys are fighting for, the freedoms you enjoy, are not negotiable. They are written
in blood, the blood of the original patriots that fought for them, the blood of the countless soldiers who have
been tasked to keep this country and the constitution safe.

Do you have a history book lying around? Do you care what type of world your grandchildren will be
born into? Go to the library and check out any book on Hitler's Germany...

You will find many parallels from that time, and that country, being implemented here and now,
in this country.

The only difference--Germany had Jews...the US has illegals and Muslims.

If we, as a society, don't remain vigilant, and fight with all we have to maintain our freedom, the day will
come when people who believe as you do will rue their laziness, will regret that THEY didn't take
personal responsibility for themselves, preferring instead to let the state have full control over their
safety and their subservient lives.

Evil men will always seek power. And they will use whatever means to achieve it over you. If you do
not realize this and guard against it, you and your children will be doomed to repeat history...
...and it AIN"T pretty

reply to post by rival


Have no idea why you are so mad! I am trying to make sure Americans can actually work again and get to do the things we used to do.

I have Indian reservations here and they get paid from the casino profits and we actually are told they do not have to work at all. Just pick up the check every month! This is something I am not used to when I have to work everyday.

There are so many illegal immigrants living in my apartment complex I feel like I am not in America anymore when I walk into a store and try to simply speak English!

How can I make someone mad when we need major help?

My father DIED in Vietnam! We are a huge military family! You would not believe what my son has to do to make sure we are free and do whatever we want when we want to.

I never ever intended to make someone mad as an American citizen wishing my people could get a freaking job and everything else we used to have.

We are losing our freedoms everyday and I do not like a bunch of stuff the government is doing! But enough is enough on certain subjects!

give em all naturalization!

America will assimilate all!

it's who we are fellas, we make Americans here...

Resistance is Futile!

Originally posted by jburg6
I would like to inject a little common sense here. You may be blowing this out of proportion. If the government really wanted to invade everyone's privacy that badly, wouldn't it simply pass a more straight to the point law redefining what constitutes probable cause for search or something like that? Regardless, I doubt federal and state employees are not going to start "harassing" people any more than they already do, because they would end up with more lawsuits than they could shake a stick at and our fellow jurors would stick it to them.

No way, they wouldn't do that. They prefer to add 150 different little laws so the usual citizen will not see the big plan. People tend to accept losing freedom little by little. If they do one big law, people will suspect something is up.

Peace out