UK back in recession. Double dip.

reply to post by diddy1234


Germany is widely precicted to enter recession this year!

www.spiegel.de...
www.thedailyeconomist.com...
www.reuters.com...

Germany also had a recession in 2008....

reply to post by stumason


You are thinking of Communism. But even if I was suggesting communism the Russia defence is exhausted and tired. Russia never had true Communism.

You are on the right track with the public owning utilities. See,people are getting more ready by the day. Even you. Good thinking Thats a start.

reply to post by Germanicus


They both adhere to the tenet of state owned industry and total control of the economy. It might prevent recessions, but it stifles innovation and investment.

I'd rather run the risk of an occasional recession and live a nice life, than have a life where everything was dicatated by unseen desk-jockeys to meet quotas. Unless you can suggest a different model?

reply to post by stumason


I am being dramatic for good reason my friend.

Parts of this country are indeed being destroyed.

Areas that were decimated by the abandonment and sell out of our manufacturing industries became reliant on government funded or sponsored jobs and programmes.
These same areas are now facing massive budget cuts.
In an effort to minimise redundancies services are being reduced.
And the cold, harsh reality of these cuts for those reliant on some of these services is devestating.

One example.
My younger brother is both physically and mentally handicapped.
My parents, who are both pensioners, are his carers.
My brother goes to a special work unit every day.
My parents have been told that transport to his work will no longer be free but they will have to pay between £60 and £90 per week for this 'service'.
This comes on top of a reduction of benefit payments.
There has also been a reduction in 'respite' facilities available and there will be a charge introduced for any respite care.
My parents are both physically and mentally drained and are extremely worried about how they can afford to continue to care for my brother both now and in the future.

That story is by no means unique and I know of countless other examples of the cold, harsh reality of Camerons austerity cuts.
They have a real impact on people.

The boom and bust cycle needs to be broken.
How?
I don't know - I'm certainly no economist.

But this system isn't working and it's time for change.

Life should be about more than just keeping accounts....and there is a vast amount of money in this country and it can and should be used better.

reply to post by stumason


There are plenty to choose from. You might prefer 'Libertarian Socialism'.

But we live our lives in a similar way to how you have discribed right now. Unseen powers pulling the strings. Corporatism is what we will attack first.It is the head of the snake.

Double dip??

We never got out of the last one!

reply to post by Freeborn


I feel for you mate and I strongly suspect that in many area's (seen it near where I live) councils controlled by certain parties deliberately make life hard to prove a point, while others seem to get by with the same level of service. I'm not saying that is what is happening in your area, but I would not be surprised if there was a political motive to certain "cuts".

We are all feeling it in our own ways too, as due to the years of idiotic economic policies myself and many others have been priced out of buying a house in the area we have grown up in, despite me earning a decent salary. As a result, I pay over the odds in rent, I can't afford to drive a car so as a result I'm fleeced on public transport, I can't take the kids on a day out without paying a fortune in fares and I am limited where I can work.

I know it's nowhere near the same as your situation though.

The successive mismanagement of the economy of decades has culminated to this point, it isn't all Camerons fault, but Brown, Blair, Major, Thatcher, Heath and so on. We need a reboot.

reply to post by stumason


I agree that the benefit system needs an urgent and drastic overhaul.
It has become a reflection of all that is both good and bad in our society.

And I agree entirely that all our utility companies should be nationalised.
Maybe we could come up with a different name for it as the term 'nationalised' has become something of a taboo word.
These utilities need to managed and ran in a professional manner but with the profits re-invested in this country.

reply to post by Freeborn


Maybe owned by UK PLC and we are all share holders..

reply to post by stumason

I feel for you mate

Thanks.
We'll manage simply because we'll have to and we won't give up.
Same as most people.

and I strongly suspect that in many area's (seen it near where I live) councils controlled by certain parties deliberately make life hard to prove a point,

I suspect there's more than an element of truth in this.

The successive mismanagement of the economy of decades has culminated to this point, it isn't all Camerons fault, but Brown, Blair, Major, Thatcher, Heath and so on. We need a reboot

I agree whole heartedly with you.

But they are merely products of the system they represent.
It 's the system we need to change.

I genuinely believe that Cameron is fronting an attempt to take us back to some sort of Victorianesque society along with all the social and economic injustices that went with it.

Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by stumason

 

You can only ever do that in a state controlled economy and that is doomed to fail eventually for other reasons.

I disagree. Socialism seems to be the obvious and only way forward. Its time to roll the dice it would seem. Capitalism is a gigantic beached whale and we are just throwing buckets of water on it. I say let it die. This is more than a 'double dip recession'.

People are more and more ready for something else by the day.

No the problem is we don't really have capitalism. You don't have capitalism when the banks hold the populace hostage, profits are private and the losses are socialised.

The problems cant be fixed without an overhaul of the monetary system.

Socialism, in its true form isn't the answer because it runs contrary to human nature. Socialism as employed by the european social democratic parties simply papers the cracks for a while on borrowed money. Money borrowed from banks I might add.

The conservative/labour (austerity/largesse) cycle is a dog and pony show.

that wont happen.

Either party wants to just privatise whatever else we have.

Within the next 5 years the royal mail will be completely privatised.
Their recent price increases on stamps has put a death nail into the company as it currently is.

The national road toll policy (privatisation of the roads) will come into effect, but to do that the government would have to scrap Vehicle Exercise Duty (or should it be road tax).

A new tax will come into force for any employee that wants to park their own car at the place of work.

Fuel will increase to stupid levels, double what it is now ?

Even if petrol was £5 per litre, you don't have a choice and still have to pay it.
Yes it may make you use the car less but you still have to use the car (despite what some do gooders want you to believe the public transport system does not go everywhere).

So that's what I see happening in the next 5 years regardless of who is in power as there is not much difference between labour and conservatives these days.

reply to post by justwokeup

Socialism as employed by the european social democratic parties simply papers the cracks for a while on borrowed money. Money borrowed from banks I might add.

I agree. These people are not true socialists. They make a mockery socialism. And I also agree that we do not have true capitalism. But we need to highball the corporatists to ensure a fairer middle ground. In my opinion, true socialism is the answer but there are alot of options that we can look at. One thing I think we can all agree on is that we need to attack the corporatists.(not physically). They are the problem.They are not 'job creators' but job destroyers.

To be honest the only way forward I see is revolution..

This system will not die without a fight no matter how many placards we carry or how many rallies/demos we have.. Its been around a lot longer than any of us have and knows how to survive our little tantrums..

A big tantrum is in order.. We have to kill the beast... It is the only way... Democracy has turned to capitalism that always turns into corporatism where now we have the wealthy who have the sheer audacity to think they can sell OUR water abroad!! Yes every drip that drops from the clouds does not belong to us... Something wrong about that hey? And to be honest I would personally go to war just to redress that alone!

Then we have the loss of sovereignty... If we had a popular uprising in this country I would hazard that we would be fighting foreign troops... A backwash to the days of the English civil war where the king was bringing in foreign troops against his own people....

I do think there is a way to kill the beast without bloodshed... Starve the fker... Dont feed it... But the sheeple are that ingrained in the system and dependent on it that they have become part of the problem too... I believe a national strike would do the job.. Dont go to work.. Dont buy stuff.. Dont pay your bills.. Starve the system till it dies.. But that would take us all to do it... It wont happen... We are fked..

It all goes to take the last money from all the people but the ritch.
we have the very pore and the very rich.

reply to post by stumason

That information is outdated. The prediction from january didn't come true to this day.
I normally wouldn't use der Spiegel as a source, but since you already did, here is a more recent article: Upswing Continues

The country's leading economics think tanks issued a spring report on Thursday predicting gross domestic product growth of 0.9 percent for this year and 2 percent for 2013.

Although there are still dark clouds on the horizon, the problems Germany as an exporting nation faces are mainly caused by the weak economies around us (especially with the danger of euro-bonds).

that's where the Government is clever enough to persecute us by keeping us in the dark and feeding us bull$hit.

I mean if most of the nation were absolutely destitute then a revolution would be inevitable.

Since it is only the middle class getting heavily squeezed they know full well that we will all moan about it but do nothing.

If your after radially changing the system, you have to know how to play the system.

Unfortunately I don't.

Anyone with good ideas please post. he he

reply to post by diddy1234

Since it is only the middle class getting heavily squeezed

Pardon?

You mean now that for the first time the middle class are being slightly squeezed.

As usual it's the working class that get's the real crappy end of the stick but hey, they don't count really do they?
And it must only be what they deserve, isn't it?

sorry my previous post came across in the wrong context.

Yes I do mean the working class and the middle class.

The ONLY people not really feeling the squeeze is the top 1% despite what they want you to believe.

For the likes of me and you looking into your wallet and not seeing any money means were broke, for the top 1% it's when they are down to their last £50 note.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


And can you believe the markets are green today over Apple.