Mohammad - a perspective

Regardless of what people think of Mohammad and Islam, its undisputable that Mohammad utterly changed the face of Arabia. He put an end to the culture of idolatry, polytheism and paganism that prevailed in Arabia.... and established a monotheistic religion that directs all worship to the One true God and recognizes and honors the biblical prophets and Jesus.

This is a feat that the jews and the christians could not acheive, despite having had a head start for centuries in the middle east. Instead, Arabia was cleansed of its polytheism and idolatry through Mohammad, an Ishmaelite. Considering the long lasting impact he made, Mohammad was clearly destined for great things.

I expect to see the usual posts questioning Mohammads prophethood and denying that Allah is the God of Abraham.... but I also have a few questions to christians...


1. If you believe Mohammad was a false prophet, then why did God allow him success and thereby letting Islam emerge in the middle east?

2. If christianity is the true path, then why didn't God allow for christianity to prevail in the middle east, instead of having Mohammad show up and spread Islam, which you see as a false religion.

3. If you believe muslims will never be saved unless they accept christianity, then doesn't it mean that God made it difficult for muslims to be saved? Because as you know, muslims are rather strict about religion and will not simply "accept Jesus as lord" just because they read it in a tract. So, why did God put muslims in a difficult situaton?

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My take is that Mohammad was a true prophet and Islam is a valid Abrahamic religion.
God did not allow for Islam to be established only to send muslims to hell, for the crime of not being christians. Instead Mohammad was chosen to cleanse Arabia of its idolatry and polytheism... and enforce the very first commandment that was given to the Israelites. He truly was an agent of God.

Further reading

Third option. Perhaps Christianity and Islam are both wrong?

How about a fourth possibility? The Faiths are not as mutually exclusive as the leaders of them would have us all believe. Perhaps Islam is what worked and was called for in the Middle East as much as Christianity in Europe and Buddhism in East Asia. Different faces of the same eternal Force, Being or Gods, in my view.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

I expect to see the usual posts questioning Mohammads prophethood and denying that Allah is the God of Abraham.... but I also have a few questions to Christians...

1. If you believe Mohammad was a false prophet, then why did God allow for Islam to prevail in the middle east?

I'm not a Christian but...

Did the fact that he successfully conquered Arabia and subjugated the Christians and Jews (forcing them to pay tribute) and worshipers of other gods (forcing them to convert to Islam) have something to do with the fact that he was a very successful military general with a considerable army?

• At Kheibar in 628 C.E., the Muslim army was 2,000 combatants.

• When Muhammad mounted his assault on Mecca (630 C.E.) he did so with 10,000 men.

• And at the Battle of Hunayn a few months later the army numbered 12,000.

Source: Islamic Imperialism: A History by Karsh, E. (2007)

In fact in the space of a single decade Muhammad

• Fought 8 major battles

• Led 18 raids,

• Planned another 38 military operations where others were in command but operating under his orders and strategic direction.

HistoryNet

I have always been puzzled that people can regard Islam as a religion of peace when its founder, Muhammad, spread Islam throughout the Arabian peninsula by the sword at the head of a large jihadist army.

reply to post by ollncasino

I have always been puzzled that people can regard Islam as a religion of peace when its founder, Muhammad, spread Islam throughout the Arabian peninsula by the sword at the head of a large jihadist army.

I'm looking at the arrival of Mohammad and Islam from a historical perspective. Why God allowed Islam to emerge is extremely relevant to christians. The questions I've asked in the OP addresses the typical christian notion that they are right and muslims are wrong.

BTW, that was a very interesting link that you posted...

Muhammad had no military training before he commanded an army in the field.

As a theist, I believe this suggests that Mohammad was guided by God to establish Islam.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

God did not allow for Islam to be established only to send muslims to hell, for the crime of not being christians. Instead Mohammad was chosen to cleanse Arabia of its idolatry and polytheism...

Interestingly, after Muhammad's death, his successors expelled all of the Jews and Christians from the Arabian peninsula, breaking Muhammad's treaties with them.

You are correct however that the Medina Koran is full of verses extolling the virtues of jihad against idolaters, infidels and hypocrites.

Muhammad made it clear that the enemies of Islam would burn in hell, while jihadists who died in battle would go to heaven.

Interestingly violent Jihad makes up

• 24% of the Medinan Koran
• 21% of the Hadith and
• 67% of the Sira.

Center for the Study of Political Islam

Originally posted by ollncasino
Muhammad had no military training before he commanded an army in the field.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

As a theist, I believe this suggests that Mohammad was guided by God to establish Islam.

Actually, initially Muhammad wasn't very successful. He started small with caravan raids and learned on the job.

There is no detracting from his ability as a military commander though.

Eventually he led an army of 30,000 men.

how much truth is there to the idea that the RC church put Mohamid in there to unite the ME people as they wouldn't listen to anyone who wasn't ME? And isn't there something about Jihadists being granted something like 42 virgins if they are killed? If so, 1./ what if the virgins were all male? 2./ What do they do with the used virgins? and 3./ I read somewhere that there was a mistranslation re the word virgins, it should have been "grapes" Now wouldn't all those suicide bombers be upset : )

The reason Muhammed (peace be upon him) made Jihad is, that the Muslims or believers (before they became the followers of Muhammed, they were Atheists, "Jews" and "Christians"; note: Muslim means submitter to God, and thus Jesus and all the other Prophets (peace be upon them) were Muslims, who actually prayed the way Muslims pray today. Look it up, your Christianity today is merely a creation or alteration done by the Romans) were discriminated and they had to fight for their rights etc. The number one rule of Islamic way of making war is that one should not ATTACK or wage war, unless being attacked themselves FIRST. Which was the case.

Originally posted by steve1709
And isn't there something about Jihadists being granted something like 42 virgins if they are killed?

The 72 Virgins notion has its origins in the Qur’an.

Although the holy book does not specify the number as 72, it does say that those who fight in the way of Allah and are killed will be given a great reward. It goes on to stipulate that Muslims will be awarded with women in Islamic heaven. It even describes their physical attributes—large eyes (Q 56:22) and big, firm, round “swelling breasts” that are not inclined to sagging (Q 78:33). Hadith 2687 is where the number 72 is mentioned.

IslamQuotes

So Muslims who die in jihad can look forward to 72 virgins with big, firm, round “swelling breasts” that are not inclined to sagging (to quote the Koran).

Originally posted by steve1709
how much truth is there to the idea that the RC church put Mohamid in there to unite the ME people as they wouldn't listen to anyone who wasn't ME? And isn't there something about Jihadists being granted something like 42 virgins if they are killed? If so, 1./ what if the virgins were all male? 2./ What do they do with the used virgins? and 3./ I read somewhere that there was a mistranslation re the word virgins, it should have been "grapes" Now wouldn't all those suicide bombers be upset : )

I always wondered where they were going to come up with the virgins, but I do believe there are plenty of grapes to go around...

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by steve1709
And isn't there something about Jihadists being granted something like 42 virgins if they are killed?

The 72 Virgins notion has its origins in the Qur’an.

IslamQuotes


So Muslims who die in jihad can look forward to 72 virgins with big, firm, round “swelling breasts” that are not inclined to sagging (to quote the Koran).

What if they were swelling grapes?

Why the need to turn this discussion/topic into ridicule? Very mature to say the least.

Originally posted by Kemal
Why the need to turn this discussion/topic into ridicule? Very mature to say the least.

I can't help but assume by the way your first message was worded that you are a Muslim. I couldn't agree with you more on this. I don't have to like or agree with Islam to respect it just as I'm sure I'm a rather ..ahem..small minority around here for being among the Wiccan faith.

Originally posted by Kemal
The number one rule of Islamic way of making war is that one should not ATTACK or wage war, unless being attacked themselves FIRST. Which was the case

Yet to quote Muhammad

"I was ordered to fight all men until they say 'There is no god but Allah."

Prophet Muhammad's farewell address, March 632

Islamic Imperialism: A History by Efraim Karsh

yalepress.yale.edu...

To claim that Muhammad was waging defensive warfare is simply untrue. Muhammad was clearly the aggressor, sparking war by raiding Meccan caravans from his military base in Medina.

To claim that Muhammad had to conquer the whole Arabian peninsula in a 'defensive' war is stretching credibility.

reply to post by ollncasino


Ok, let me repeat the OPs questions one more time.

1. If you believe Mohammad was a false prophet, then why did God allow him success and thereby letting Islam emerge in the middle east?

2. If christianity is the true path, then why didn't God allow for christianity to prevail in the middle east, instead of having Mohammad show up and spread Islam, which you see as a false religion.

3. If you believe muslims will never be saved unless they accept christianity, then doesn't it mean that God made it difficult for muslims to be saved? Because as you know, muslims are rather strict about religion and will not simply "accept Jesus as lord" just because they read it in a tract. So, why did God put muslims in a difficult situaton?

Well?

Originally posted by Kemal
Why the need to turn this discussion/topic into ridicule? Very mature to say the least.

All religions should be able to be discussed in every aspect without it being considered "ridicule", either something is or it isn't.

In the case of Scientology (religion? cult?) they believe in Xenu, the alien or what have you. Sooo, there's a hard one to discuss without it seeming like ridicule.

Christianity and Islam both have similar nuances that just don't make sense to rational people. It's not so much ridicule as it is an honest look at some very strange things to people who are not part of the group.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

1. If you believe Mohammad was a false prophet, then why did God allow him success and thereby letting Islam emerge in the middle east?

2. If christianity is the true path, then why didn't God allow for christianity to prevail in the middle east, instead of having Mohammad show up and spread Islam, which you see as a false religion.

3. If you believe muslims will never be saved unless they accept christianity, then doesn't it mean that God made it difficult for muslims to be saved? Because as you know, muslims are rather strict about religion and will not simply "accept Jesus as lord" just because they read it in a tract. So, why did God put muslims in a difficult situaton?

1. Who says god had anything to do with it?
2. Does god only dabble in middle eastern affairs?
3. Huh?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Hey Skorpion,

I believe Mohammed (PBUH) was a great man but I dont believe he or anyone else had a direct line to god.

Using your logic of why would god let Mohammed succeed etc etc if god has so much power and was able to influence the world so Mohammed succeeded why does he let so much bad happen?

The thought of an old man becoming aroused by a child is one of the most disturbing thoughts that makes us cringe as it reminds us of pedophilia and the most despicable people. It is difficult to accept that the Holy Prophet married Aisha when she was 6-years-old and consummated his marriage with her when she was 9. He was then, 54 years old.


What a sicko
Thats a religion for people with no standards

Kemal I wasn't. I really wish I could remember where I read what I posted. So, my statements were fair dinkum. If the RC chuch did start it off then wow what a big mistake. If there was a mistanslation then there's another big mistake. And how does that affect me or anyone else who is not muslim. Here we have a group of people who at the fundamentalist level would have no hesitation in knocking us off if we don't go along with "their eligion" Now that's not a mistake, THAT'S a huge problem. Here, this email was sent to me, very thought provoking:

THE EMAIL:
Can a good Muslim be a good Australian?

This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.

The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon god of Arabia .

Religiously - no.. . . Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam . (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)

Scripturally - no. . . Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.

Geographically - no . Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews .

Politically - no.. . . Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America the great Satan, Australia and the rest of the free world.

Domestically - no. .. . Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34 )

Intellectually - no. . Because he cannot accept the Australian Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. . . . Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no.. . . Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' The Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore, after much study and deliberation.... Perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. - - - They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Australians [or good Englishmen or good Americans!]. Call it what you wish, it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country [ and yours] and our future.

The religious war is bigger than we know or understand. .....

Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within.