For Those Complaining About the Big Banks and Mortgage Companies Please Look in the Mirror

I hear a lot of complaining that goes on about how unjust the big banks and mortgage companies are in the way they've treated Americans in the midst of their plights. Now, I'm not arguing that they haven't been unjust because often times they have taken advantage of the American people. However, the burden of the current recession that is hurting people in such a powerful way often times.....well, I can actually statistically prove that it's not just often times but most of the time it is the fault of the American citizen.

Remember, the recession started in '08. Let's see how well Americans were saving in the boom years before the recession. Unemployment was under 5% and home values / salaries were rapidly increasing. I mean things were great and money was flowing so the average American citizen should have been using that opportunity to save and protect themselves from any future problems that might happen right? I mean the tech bubble had burst a decade or so before and so they should have been able to look at history and see that along with the booms come the busts. Along with the prosperity comes the recessions. It is a historical trend.



Oh, ouch that graph really hurts the blame game the American people are playing. In 2005 the average American started spending more then they were making. You mean during the boom years Americans actually spent more each year than they made? Isn't that odd? Just when prosperity was at its highest, saving was at its lowest. Those darn banks and mortgage companies.......it's all their fault we're suffering.........

Let's look at another graph and see what Americans were doing with all their prosperity.



Oh, I guess that was where all their money was going..........credit cards........yep that was wise wasn't it? And the cry of the American people roared, "THE BANKS HAVE OPPRESSED US"......... "I'M SUFFERING BECAUSE OF HOW EVIL THEY ARE!"

I think the American people need to look themselves in the mirror and ask themselves the truth about why they are suffering. They didn't hedge against calamity. They didn't prepare themselves when times were good. They spent all they could muster to live the American dream. They lived selfishly and arrogantly. They pursued their pleasures and desires.

America, let's admit we're a part of the very problem we condemn. Let's freaking stop with the blame game because until we look at ourselves and stop our evil, yes evil, spending habits nothing in America will ever change.

The next time you see a "pity me, my house is being foreclosed" post or a "pity me, I'm dying under debt" thread remember to share wisdom instead of rising up only against the "oppressors".

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reply to post by HangTheTraitors


Because everyone with a dissenting viewpoint is a shill or disinfo agent.

Good thread OP. When I was young the bank gave me an obscenely high limit credit card. I should have known better. This mess we are in is not just the fault of the banks. Its also ours.

The banks were a big part, but in the end, it was Americans who signed on the dotted lines. People weren’t forced to do so. Everyone wanted their cake, and eat it too.

Originally posted by HangTheTraitors
Yep, this HUGE disastrous situation was simply all the peoples faults.

Good job there bank shill.

I never said it was just the people's fault. I said much of the problems and sufferings the people faced were a result of poor choices by them in times of prosperity. Is that a true statement or not? Should have people been saving during their times of prosperity?

I'm reminded of the Aesop fable of the ant and the grasshopper. The ant works long and hard to save and store food during the beautiful summertime. The grasshopper looks at him in disgust as the grasshopper frolics around and enjoys every beautiful summer day. The grasshopper plays, and swims, and sings, and has sex, and parties. The ant simply works, works, works, and works more. However, winter eventually came and the ant and his colony thrived and survived. The grasshopper died.

It sounds kind of familiar and that is wisdom that comes from a children's book. That is children's level wisdom. Sorry, but yes, part of the fault resides on the shoulders of the people.

I look in the mirror and I see someone who relied on the EXPERT at the bank to give me the non expert some good advice. They did, it was good for them and bad for me!

reply to post by Bugman82


The banking industry, particularly the Federal Reserve, implemented practices that led to the severe debasing of the US Dollar, as a result of the depreciating fluctuations of the currency the average citizen saw a net decrease in wages over the time span 2000-2012 .. as a result of the debasing and subsequent decline of wage growth a larger percentage of a citizens expenses had to be delegated to an increasing proportion of debt. Credit cards are used to maintain the current standards of living that a citizen grew to expect, given that their employment status while unchanged had seen a decline in buying power. This led to a lower savings rate and thus higher debt yields, as well as a higher debt ratio in relation to income.

This in turn caused a scenario where more and more of a citizens income is delegated to the maintaining of debts and high interest rates, decreasing the percentage inwhich a citizen would normally put into savings. Eventually the continued debasing of the currency by financial powers combined with a higher debt in proportion to income would lead to citizens defaulting on debts as maintaining the debts outgrew their negative wage growth as a direct result of federal fiscal policy. Because of this the US entered what is called a "deflationary spiral" that further debased the currency, causing massive debt defaults which led to the subsequent financial meltdown of the banking sector.

To fix the now defunct financial sector the Federal fiscal policy of the Federal Reserve was to debase the currency in order to spread nations wealth in order to cover the financial losses of the banks. This increased the ratio of wage decline to expendable income, decreasing the savings rate of Americans as now the price of consumable goods, including gas, electricity, food etc was growing far faster than their disproportionate income (if they even had an income). Furthering the deflationary spiral was a credit contraction that limited the net growth of consumption power, which further harmed the economy.

To fix this issues the Federal Reserve and the Federal fiscal policy is to expand credit at cheaper rates, all the while the average net wage growth of citizens in the bottom 95% level has declined further.. meaning that even with lower consumption of consumer goods as compared to dates prior to 2007, the average citizen could default on debts due to the double digit growth in percent of debt to income based solely on the federal fiscal policy and negative wage growth, and not the accumulation of new debts.

Thus you can conclude that consumers become the victims, and I do say victims, of a credit manipulation by the banking industry that will lead to a loss of income and property.. most people who default on credit did so as a direct result of the federal fiscal policy, and not the accumulation of willful debt to income. The fiscal policy of the country has continually been to debase the currency, effecting the standards of living of average people, while disproportionally assisting the financial powerhouses of the economy, and while they were saved the citizens were sacrificed. If we maintained a sound fiscal policy as per the last 3 decades, calculating in the average net wage growth and the proportional growth of debt in relation to that wage growth the vast majority of citizens would not have defaulted, and the US economy would not have collapsed.

So who's to blame?

The Federal Reserve, Banks, and the US Government. Not the citizenry.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
I look in the mirror and I see someone who relied on the EXPERT at the bank to give me the non expert some good advice. They did, it was good for them and bad for me!

So a human being isn't responsible if he or she decided to spend more each year in their prosperity than they saved? Remember the above Aesop Fable children's wisdom. Your assertion is ridiculous and actually calls for even the most basic logic to be enslaved to the hands of the bankers.

Originally posted by Bugman82

Originally posted by HangTheTraitors
Yep, this HUGE disastrous situation was simply all the peoples faults.

Good job there bank shill.

I never said it was just the people's fault. I said much of the problems and sufferings the people faced were a result of poor choices by them in times of prosperity. Is that a true statement or not? Should have people been saving during their times of prosperity?

I'm reminded of the Aesop fable of the ant and the grasshopper. The ant works long and hard to save and store food during the beautiful summertime. The grasshopper looks at him in disgust as the grasshopper frolics around and enjoys every beautiful summer day. The grasshopper plays, and swims, and sings, and has sex, and parties. The ant simply works, works, works, and works more. However, winter eventually came and the ant and his colony thrived and survived. The grasshopper died.

It sounds kind of familiar and that is wisdom that comes from a children's book. That is children's level wisdom. Sorry, but yes, part of the fault resides on the shoulders of the people.

edit on 21-4-2012 by Bugman82 because: (no reason given)

I love that analogy. Many will blame everyone else but themselves. A lot of people made some terrible choices. Too bad they won’t admit it. Part of moving forward in a positive way, is accepting fault. And if you can’t admit that, than most will probably end up right back where they started.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I agree that the Federal Reserve policy is also of huge responsibility for the current crisis. Currency debasement is plain evil and tears apart the middle and lower classes. However, my points stand that America bought into the American dream and continued their rampages of spending.




and as you can see.........income adjusted for inflation and currency debasement actually didn't dwindle until 2007. Your assertion that it began in 2000 is rather wrong.

Originally posted by Propulsion
The banks were a big part, but in the end, it was Americans who signed on the dotted lines. People weren’t forced to do so. Everyone wanted their cake, and eat it too.

edit on 21-4-2012 by Propulsion because: (no reason given)

But the problem wasnt just mortgages.

The problem was the banks knowingly packaged bad mortgages and resold them on the international market as 'good'.

This made the banks unstable, which caused the crash of 2007/08

People ABSOLUTELY shouldn't have taken out mortgages they couldnt afford, but if you think thats the bulk of the problem, you are missing a lot.

reply to post by Bugman82


Ohh.. so you're saying that the average citizen who knows almost nothing of economic theories should have 1st even known the debasement was in process and 2nd should have taken precautionary measures in response to the debasement that they supposedly should have known about? The average citizen who only wants to provide for their family, put a meal on their table, and watch a little television after a full day of working his ass off to support a corrupt economic system?

Them?

They should have been the ones to take these precautionary methods? They should have just accepted their standards of living should collapse due to an ignorant self righteous government? They simply went on living .. the only thing that changed was the Government useage of currency debasement to further its own selfish ends.

If you've ever studied in-depth the numerous financial and economic theories implemented by Western societies, you would know the psychology of citizenry is integral to the well-being of a consumption economy. The Federal Reserve and the Government psychologically assisted the populace into believing the economy was sound and whole, go buy a new house and a new car, "The economy is sound" - George W. Bush.

(to correct your ignorance by the way, from 2000-2007 the USD saw a total debasement of approximately 27%. A 27% decline in purchasing power.. effecting total net wage growth for the bottom 95% of wage earners.

Clarifying Post:

I'm fully anti-fed and believe the Federal Reserve to be responsible for most the current fiscal crisis. However, my argument centers on the fact that people should have been prepared and should have been ready for a crisis considering they happen all the time. Pain and suffering could have been heavily avoided had people prepared themselves for the "winter".

We can't just sit around blaming the banks without changing our own habits as a nation.

reply to post by Rockpuck


No, I'm saying that Aesop Fable wisdom that is for children should have been enough. It sure as heck was enough for me. I've been saving around 50% of my income the last decade. Hard times don't phase me as I have an emergency fund set up to absorb any hard times I might face with over a year and a half of expenses. I'm hedged against calamity and worked hard to do it. Meanwhile, I see people who make my same salary running around buying new cars that are on average towing $350/m payments, using credit cards to purchase their ipads, iphones for the whole family, and their big screen TVs. I see people with my income purchasing homes that cost $100,000 more than mine. Odd isn't it?

I think sharing the Aesop Fable wisdom will do a lot more for Americans than telling them none of it is their fault. I assume you are a free market proponent and the free market hinges on personal responsibility. So let's share our wisdom in that regard.

Yep, this HUGE DISASTER of EPIC proportions is simply all the fault of the average citizens.

Total BS.

You sound like a bank shill...

reply to post by Bugman82


You are very lucky to be able to save HALF your income, for people like myself struggling to find ANY employment, saving is impossible. If I work for minimum wage(thats all there is) I also have to claim benefits because its not possible to survive on minimum wage. How am I supposed to save? Would you care to donate some of your savings to me??

reply to post by Bugman82


Sadly if everyone were like you, the economy would collapse. We depend on people blowing their money on houses and TV's because it's 73% of our economy. And who's fault is it that companies with wealth producing jobs are fleeing the country? Governments.

This is not a "free market" .. this is a highly regulated market.. Personal responsibility only goes so far in an economy like this, the theories we base our entire system on revolve around keeping the citizenry happy and ignorant, willing to spend and incur debts. It's the very foundation of our economy. Now when we as a people are conditioned to spend and buy big.. then because of corrupt financial practice in cohort with the corrupt assistance of Government the entire system collapses and people made homeless because of those corporate/governmental actions you blame the citizen?

The population moved from the 90's into the 2000's without changing their consumption habits.. that's a fact.. the only thing that changed was the level in relation to real income.. and real income collapsed because ooofffff?????

The federal fiscal policy.

Originally posted by Bugman82

Originally posted by VoidHawk
I look in the mirror and I see someone who relied on the EXPERT at the bank to give me the non expert some good advice. They did, it was good for them and bad for me!

So a human being isn't responsible if he or she decided to spend more each year in their prosperity than they saved? Remember the above Aesop Fable children's wisdom. Your assertion is ridiculous and actually calls for even the most basic logic to be enslaved to the hands of the bankers.

WoW, the irony is strong with this one.

Do you even have a BASIC knowledge of what fractional banking is?

Hint: The banks really did not lend much of anything, most of it was credits made out of thin air when the loan was issued.

You want to talk about the average person being fiscally irresponsible when banks lend money at a rate of 9-1 in actual assets.
Banks loan 9x or more then they actually have in assets, so the amounts deposited into (loan) accounts are mostly fabrication.
To make it worse, when that same phantom money is deposited in the next bank, that bank can then loan (at a lower ratio) more phantom money. This cycle goes through about 6 banks, each adding its own phantom money to lend.
Today I believe the ratio is even higher or not restricted at all.


DO you see who the real criminals are?

Maybe do a bit of research into how all those mortgages where cut up, packaged and sold. The mortgage issuers knew the loans were toxic when issued, so they cut them up and dumped them onto many, many investors. Large chunks of these investments became part of peoples 401K or retirement plans.So guess who made it rich and who got screwed.

Again, who are the real criminals?

Extra points: Try to figure out the "derivative" scams than made a few rich and many more much poorer.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
reply to post by Bugman82

 

You are very lucky to be able to save HALF your income, for people like myself struggling to find ANY employment, saving is impossible. If I work for minimum wage(thats all there is) I also have to claim benefits because its not possible to survive on minimum wage. How am I supposed to save? Would you care to donate some of your savings to me??

I am only able to save because of my bare-bones budget. I make around $28k a year. I eat at home, drive a fully paid for 1999 Honda Accord with 200,000 miles on it, have only the most basic of utilities and phone services (no data plan or smart phone for me), and I entertain myself with free activities. I am a competitive bike racer, grow a garden, grill out with friends, go out to historical places and museums, play disc golf, play cards and complex board games, and watch movies from home. I am also active in Habitat for Humanity, Ruritan, and in missions trips through my church to places like Haiti and Guatemala.

I do count myself as very fortunate but at the same time I see the people who haven't been wise with their income splurging on everything they can. They are saving nothing and they are the ones who are suffering much of pains from foreclosure and mounting debt. I lost 2 jobs during the financial meltdown and I quickly found work again but saw my salary go from $38k in 2006 to $28k today. However, this has changed almost nothing as I was saving more than 66% of my income in 2006. I want to have a good retirement and have stability. I've made sacrifices of delaying self-gratitude, but I find more peace in that delay and security than the joy I'd get from splurging on all the new shiny things out there.

I'm sorry for your plight, and I hope that you can find work that will support you quickly. I hate to see people suffer under economic hardship. We are F'ed by the Fed and the materialistic mindset.

"For Those Complaining About the Big Banks and Mortgage Companies Please Look in the Mirror"

OK, I did. Unfortunately it isn't in my house. That's gone. Sucks when you become disabled and the insurance doesn't come up in time to save your property and family. Insurance, banks, what's the difference?