Paid Shills: The Boogeymen of ATS

reply to post by InTheFlesh1980


You just have to press on!

There are certain posters, I have learned to ignore.

Whether they are paid or not I can not say,

but they can not be swayed by reason...

if i had a buck for everytime someone called me a shill, disinfo, cia and everything else i would be a very very rich woman

if only my life was THAT exciting, but alas it is not.

Just because someone does not agree with what you post, has a differing opinion on things DOES NOT make them the devil in carnate. This site caters to millions of people worldwide, from hundreds of backgrounds fromt he rich to the poor, and im sorry but not everyone is going to agree with something that you post. Now thats not to say perhaps that the site maybe monitored by agencies especially since certain past members have become so high profile in the media and this directs attention to this site unfortunately but that does not mean that tptb are watching you through your webcam and bugging your house. If anyone is this paranoid then might i suggest taking a break from the world of conspiracies. Go outside and smell the roses for a while.

The OP was correct in many things they said, 99% of the stuff that gets posted on ats could not bee deemed as highly secret after all the vast majority of the content here is freely available to anyone on the internet to look at. In saying that though thats not to say that the boogymen are not hiding under your beds as we speak...waiting to pounce on your feet as you get into bed

When a thread is not going someone's way, the trend I see is to play the "shill" card, where those who challenge the content or concepts of the thread are accused of being "disinfo agents" that are intentionally muddying the waters in order to obfuscate the underlying truth.

This, of course, is typically done only at the uttermost end of need, when few other options of logical, rational discourse remain. This method violates most resonable definitions of ethical debate, and in turn obfuscates any shred of truth that may have been garnered from what little merit the thread had in the first place.

Agreed. Some people love to play this as their ace in the hole. Including shills.

It's about as likely as shills at ATS.

No shills or paid disinfo agents give a crap about your ramblings on ATS.

You just keep right on believing that... if you only knew.

S&F. Because some of what you said was excellent, and rings true.

reply to post by InTheFlesh1980

No shills or paid disinfo agents give a crap about your ramblings on ATS.

Are you sure?
Can you prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt?
If they don't care what enlightened ones have to say and they're not running interference,
what are shills and disinfo agents supposed to be doing and what do they really care about?

Originally posted by Klassified

You just keep right on believing that... if you only knew.

Originally posted by Afterthought

If they don't care what enlightened ones have to say and they're not running interference,
what are shills and disinfo agents supposed to be doing and what do they really care about?

Points taken. However, in order for a paid shill to take interest in a topic, there are most likely a few critical criteria.

1. The topic must be significant enough to warrant the interest in misdirecting and deception. This significance implies that the shill knows some truth behind the content and sees it as a threat to their paid agenda.
   
2. The content must be presented in a way that is organized well enough to represent a potentially strong case that might lead people to a revelation about the truth that someone is trying to cover up.
   
3. The discussion on the topic is successfully leading people to lean towards believing it is a possibility.
   
4. The OP or other subsequent participants appear to be rational and resourceful, and believe strongly that the topic is of significance in its revelation. In other words, the people involved pose a true threat to the ungainly agenda of the shill.
   

How many threads on ATS meet this criteria? Often times the threads I see the "shill" card played in do not seem worthy of the prerequisite significance.

If you post a thread on ATS that DOES meet the criteria of importance and significance for a shill to obfuscate and deceive, you are most likely someone who has done some research and is ready to combat these forces with facts and corroborating evidence where available. You are less likely to exhibit the behavior I am referring to, which is to ignore all competent, factual discussion, disregard healthy debate, then cry "Shill!".

When I hastily stated that "No shills or paid disinfo agents give a crap about your ramblings on ATS", I guess I am referring to the majority of threads on here that couldn't convince a thirsty horse to drink water and do not meet the criteria of "significance" listed above.

I should have focused more on the ineffectiveness of the technique in an open forum of debate versus the actual existence of real shills.

zzz get over it

Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
zzz get over it

That means a lot coming from someone who has a spelling error in their own screen name.

Thanks for your one line contribution.

Hmm...concerning Ats...I once saw a post about how this site is a freemason recruitment site of some sort...and it got deleted pretty much immediately. The poster also complained about his last post on the subject being deleted...So...there is something fishy about this site.

Originally posted by dude69
Hmm...concerning Ats...I once saw a post about how this site is a freemason recruitment site of some sort...and it got deleted pretty much immediately. The poster also complained about his last post on the subject being deleted...So...there is something fishy about this site.

Next time you see a thread like that, you should save the page and make a file to show the rest of us about it later.

It's what I do.

reply to post by InTheFlesh1980

You have a good head on your shoulders. But like many, fail to see the multi-faceted tactics of the agent.
A good agent can and will create threads and posts that meet your criteria, and then some. And will also go to the opposite end of the spectrum, and create a counter thread that throws question on the first, either directly or indirectly. A good agent will play both extremes to the middle. Because the middle is where the gray area is, and that's where the comfort zone is. No real answers either way.

A good agent will use the truth to his/her advantage, and will seldom tip their hand. The good ones are hard to detect, but not impossible. You could be reading an agents post right now. If I told you I was an agent, would you believe me? Of course not. And that is the main advantage the agent has. And if you did believe me, it wouldn't make any difference. Because you would be one of the very few. Everyone else will still be in denial.

I guess my point is, you are looking at individual threads. The agent is looking to steer the site as a whole in a given direction. Good or bad, well or poorly written threads are of little consequence in the overrall picture.

Just my two shillings. And for what it's worth, the overrall point of your OP is still a good one.

Hmmm.... with all due respect, I must disagree with you on that. I don't think they are hired by ATS, but I do believe there are paid shills here.

This is why: they jump on certain TOPICS. Let's say, for example, anything related to the Mayan Calendar. Then they debunk and debunk and stay with it as long as it takes to get the last word in. Puh-lease! It's obvious!

If you are here to enjoy ATS, why not go to a thread you are interested in and leave everyone else alone?

So the fact that it seems they are "assigned" to certain topics makes me believe that they are paid shills.

Peace

Originally posted by angellicview
Hmmm.... with all due respect, I must disagree with you on that. I don't think they are hired by ATS, but I do believe there are paid shills here.

Why can't they be hired by ATS if it fits their business model? It's not out of the question. People have been doing this kind of thing for centuries.

If you are here to enjoy ATS, why not go to a thread you are interested in and leave everyone else alone?

I do it because I want to minimize the "dumbness"

So the fact that it seems they are "assigned" to certain topics makes me believe that they are paid shills.

Peace

There are certain things that I'm more likely to respond to if I see an error in thinking. Why should I let people continue to live their lives thinking a false notion? I hope someone would do the same for me. Maybe they are all laughing at me behind their backs.

I could be corrected myself, and I'll gladly take anything into consideration.

Originally posted by InTheFlesh1980

Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
zzz get over it

That means a lot coming from someone who has a spelling error in their own screen name.

Thanks for your one line contribution.

o.O

Have you ever though, it was a deliberate mistake....given the fact Windows 7 has a spell checker???


Muppet

You are paranoid, if there are paid shills...who cares? Most of the stuff on here is nonsense.

Originally posted by Klassified

 

You have a good head on your shoulders. But like many, fail to see the multi-faceted tactics of the agent.
A good agent can and will create threads and posts that meet your criteria, and then some. And will also go to the opposite end of the spectrum, and create a counter thread that throws question on the first, either directly or indirectly. A good agent will play both extremes to the middle. Because the middle is where the gray area is, and that's where the comfort zone is. No real answers either way.

A good agent will use the truth to his/her advantage, and will seldom tip their hand. The good ones are hard to detect, but not impossible. You could be reading an agents post right now. If I told you I was an agent, would you believe me? Of course not. And that is the main advantage the agent has. And if you did believe me, it wouldn't make any difference. Because you would be one of the very few. Everyone else will still be in denial.

I guess my point is, you are looking at individual threads. The agent is looking to steer the site as a whole in a given direction. Good or bad, well or poorly written threads are of little consequence in the overrall picture.

Just my two shillings. And for what it's worth, the overrall point of your OP is still a good one.

Those are excellent points, and I thank you for bringing us to the inevitable bigger picture.

Yes, it is entirely feasible that what you speak of could be executed with motivation and diligence. A guileful entity could create 100+ accounts here and wreak havoc on the focus of the site.

In fact, with a few workstations with some horsepower, I believe I could set up 100+ virtual machines and utilize global public proxy servers to avoid detection. Given enough time and a very clever approach, I might be able to steer this site into being discredited or disregarded by some.

I have seen many posts complaining that ATS is "not what it used to be", and have written off a few as nostalgia. However, this discussion invariably leads one to consider that a concerted effort could degrade the content to the point of uselessness or general disregard.

The big question is does the content of this site warrant the effort it would take to subversively steer it in said direction?

reply to post by InTheFlesh1980


I've got a joke for the OP:

A Paid Shill walks into ATS,
He then leaves because he is not needed.

Originally posted by ThinkingCap
reply to post by InTheFlesh1980

 

I've got a joke for the OP:

A Paid Shill walks into ATS,
He then leaves because he is not needed.

Ha! I love it.

Ok, so a shill, a troll and a site owner walk into a bar.

The troll says "I've derailed over 200 threads with misdirection and derogatory one-liners! I am the best troll ever!"

So the shill, not wanting to be outdone, says "Oh yeah? I've demolished over 500 threads with complete disinformation, and I got paid $5,000 for it. So there!"

The site owner takes a swig of his beer and calmly says "I deleted all your stupid posts and got paid by advertisers for all your traffic, plus all the traffic of the responses and discussions in the threads."

Shills kind of got the upper hand, especially for topics where the answers to the questions aren't really known.

Think about it. There's only one truth, which might not be known, but there are many interpretations for what it could be, and there might not be a good way to determine whether one assumption is better than the other. That leaves it wide open for a shill to dig their claws in.

reply to post by angellicview


I have to agree with this as although I'm unconvinced on the "Paid Shill" theory I cant understand the concept of debunking as a whole.

Ats and most similiar sites are very diverse. I come here to read and discuss things that interest me and ignore those that don't.

I cant stand all the silly (IMO) Ufo sighting threads with links to youtube videos as they are nearly always very silly.

I have never felt the urge to say so because I'm usually too busy talking or reading about something I do believe in.

Maybe it's just me or maybe arguing against things you disbelieve is a better way of spending your free time than I thought?

Originally posted by satron


I do it because I want to minimize the "dumbness"

That's like trying to empty a bathtub with a teaspoon, good luck with that.