If Israel Is Not Evil, the World Is in Big Trouble

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by PageAlaCearl

 

and the only option is suicide bombing, go down shooting or die sitting there starving.

Or MOVE....that's what I would do.

It's not like the Gaza strip is paradise on Earth or anything.
I never could get that...

It's like Sam Kenison said...MOVE TO THE FOOD! We got deserts in America...we just don't LIVE in them... Words of wisdom.

Its not that simple, most people dont have the means to simply up and move, the same as in many warzones around the world.

I assume your American, Im curious if the UN gave away your country where your ancestors had lived for 100's if not 1000's of years and then started mistreating you and yours who had done nothing wrong, would you simply relocate?

I get the impression from most Americans on here that any invader to the US could expect a very unwarm welcome and most would rather die than let anyone take over

I'd say the following quotes from the Hebrew Bible sum things up rather well regarding the Zionist agenda:

The LORD your God will clear away these nations before you little by little; you will not be able to put an end to them quickly, for the wild beasts would grow too numerous for you. But the LORD your God will deliver them before you, and will throw them into great confusion until they are destroyed. He will deliver their kings into your hand so that you will make their name perish from under heaven; no man will be able to stand before you until you have destroyed them.

You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. Furthermore, you shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughters to their sons, nor shall you take their daughters for your sons.

You shall consume all the peoples whom the LORD your God will deliver to you; your eye shall not pity them, nor shall you serve their gods, for that would be a snare to you. But thus you shall do to them: you shall tear down their altars, and smash their sacred pillars.

If you should say in your heart, ‘These nations are greater than I; how can I dispossess them?’ you shall not be afraid of them; you shall well remember what the LORD your God did to Pharaoh and to all Egypt.

Torah

reply to post by Nite_wing


Nobody said anything about jews.

reply to post by Nite_wing

So that is your reason to destroy a nation and a race?

Now see, you've shown everyone that you are in fact a shill. The OP in no way suggested anything of the sort. That's a kneejerk reaction you have been PROGRAMMED to have. Criticism of Israel the country, the government, the military, or the zionist movement, is NOT criticism of a race of people, and is in no way suggesting genocide.

You are a clear example of why we can't discuss anything like this here rationally, and god knows we've tried. It's hard enough to discuss this stuff without the antisemites coming out of the wood work, we don't need people like you crying holocaust at the mere suggestion that some of what Israel is doing is wrong.

Some of what Israel is doing is wrong.
Some of what the people who support Palestine are doing is wrong.

One group is occupying the other, so there is a clear distinction.

I personally don't believe Israel is evil, their government, or the people who live there, or support it. I think some of them are misguided and blinded by propaganda. And since all of this is rooted in the very real holocaust, it can and should be expected that a motto of "never again" would be strictly followed.

The problem is, this zionist movement has indeed used genocide, well attempted genocide, as justification for doing almost the exact same thing to another group of people.

honestly, if you can't see the parallels you are blind, or willfully ignorant.

Most of the european jews that ended up in the camps were "relocated" there to make room for german "settlers" during time of war of conquest. They were forced from their homes so germans could live there, forced from their towns, then forced into camps. Before the death camps came into reality, they were forced labor camps, and "relocation" ghettos.

Palestinians were forcefully relocated from their homes and towns so Israeli "settlers" could relocate there, slowly taking more land for "security" taking their towns, businesses, homes, forcing them into ghettos, using them almost as slave labor.

The germans eventually dipped right into outright murder.
The Israelis learned that if you wish to eradicate a group of people without bringing world condemnation upon yourself, you have to be a little more strategic.

there are no death camps in Gaza. But through tough strangle holds on the economy and resources, it's one giant soft kill death camp. Medical aid is blocked from entering, ambulances and red cross are targetted, basic supplies are banned.

The germans just moved people in. The Israelis bulldoze entire towns, plant trees, and pretend nothing was ever there. As long as this situation stagnates, the people in Gaza will continue to be desperate, and lash out, and their supporters will grow more angry at the rest of us supporting these events for "security".

And if you don't believe the zionist ideology has influence over governments, might I kindly point out that Canada has decided that criticism of Israel, the country, it's actions, it's military, is antisemetic. They even had John Baird personally calling other governments begging them not to support the Palestinian bid for membership.

Now again, I support Israel's right to exist and protect herself. I support the right to live, freedom and happiness, for every ISraeli AND Palestinian.

But I do NOT support members of MY government, being paid with MY tax dollars to government MY country, doing the bidding of a foreign government.

reply to post by Evanzsayz

Nobody said anything about jews.

See my post right below yours, at least the first paragraph. He's one of the shills that tries to derail threads like this by immediately claiming we support genocide against "the jews". It's patently false, but usually derails a thread, or at the very least, gets someone so upset they say something against the T&C and look out.

I can promise you, that guy is probably clicking alert like crazy right now, because his derail attempt backfired.

I am so surprized this thread has not been 404'ed but spot on correct on everything. Follow the money the so called chosen ones they look at the rest of us like were scum beneath there heel I predict this thread disapears as soon as a rabbi wakes up and sees this I would star and flag this thread but whats the point if it disapears which it most likely will. the money behind ats will scream anti-semetic and 404 we go. this topic is ABOVE TOP SECRET

but in the event free speech wins I will check back later and star & Flag this thread for the TRUTH it reveals

reply to post by Gazrok

While the thread is definitely anti-semetic, I didn't see anywhere, where the OP advocated either of these. Instead, so far, the OP has only said he believes they are evil. It dangerously skirts the area of hate speech, and I can't promise that another mod (or mods) may not deem it so.

Clearly it isn't because you are a mod and the thread is still open. Nice try, but I agree, it is skirting the edge, and from some of the tone of the OP, the responses are exactly what I'd expect.

For me to believe the OP INTENDED this to be antisemitic, and it's not just an interpretation of it, I'd need him to define "Israel". To me, the statement "If Israel Is Not Evil" suggests the OP believes Israel is evil.

Now, depending on how you define Israel, that could come off as antisemitic.

When I talk in terms using "Israel" I'm referring to the entity, the controlling entity, so the government and military. I'm not refering to "jews" or even Israeli's, if I am, I use the proper term, as I've learned this subject requires careful treading so people don't misinterpret, our outright twist, your words.

So for me to say I believe Israel is Evil, I would be referring to those controlling it, not all those living there or even supporting it. And I'd be basing that on actions, which have nothing to do with the race or religion of the people there.

But again, that's me, so I request the OP clearly define their interpretation of "Israel"

This is the main reason, not antisemitism, that we can't discuss these topics here. No one is willing to define "Israel". They use whatever definition is convenient.

"I don't like what Israel is doing"

Oh, so you hate the jews then.

Israel isn't "jews" it's a country, a government, not a race or religion.

Zionism is a political / religious ideology, and there are several different incarnations of it. The one I feel is steering world powers right now is the one that is determined to have Israel be a dominate force, convinced that every single non jew on earth will eventually turn on them, they are determined to never let it happen again. The actions they are taking towards that end, however, I don't agree with.

If this thread, in your opinion, is antisemitic, submit it for staff review now and close it down, otherwise, don't call it antisemitic for the sake of saying it when it doesn't apply.

We expect this stuff from the users, not a mod.

Oh please, this is just another hate thread in sheep's clothing. Ugh.

reply to post by Bigfoot12714

Now I could be EXTREMELY misinformed here, but someone once told me that Israel has a sort of contingency plan that, if the event arises that Israel will no longer be recognized as a state, they will launch their nukes. A sort of "If we can't exist no one can" type deal. Again I cannot stress enough how wrong I could be about this, but I figure someone has to know...

I think you were asking about this.

Now before anyone goes off the handle saying WTF kind of policy is that, keep in mind "MAD" the only thing that kept us from nuclear annihilation during the cold war. The US, and Russia, had contingency plans for massive retaliatory strikes, even if the US was completely destroyed, the attacker would also be wiped from the face of the earth.

So it's not unheard of. What bothers me is the fact that some ISraeli military personnel, as well as at least 1 Israeli professor, have suggested that it wouldn't just be the attacker being targeted. Major european cities would be targeted, including those of "friendly" countries, to avoid another holocaust or "destruction" of Israel.

It's not about being recognized as a "state" they really couldn't give a crap, look at the list of sanctions and such against them. It's about them being attacked and not being able to win, if they are going to lose, they take us all with them.

Now find my another country that has documented evidence of an undeclared nuclear weapons program, the ability to launch strikes anywhere on earth, a history of unilateral borderline terrorist actions, threatening to nuke random cities if they are threatened.

Good luck.

p.s. Keep in mind "the jews" don't have nukes, the state of Israel does. "The jews" don't have a samson option, the state of Israel does. If you can't make the distinction between Jews and the state of Israel, be you a supporter or not, just shut the heck up, you aren't helping anything.

Samson Option

The Samson Option is a term used by various commentators to describe Israel’s alleged deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons as a “last resort” against nations whose military attacks threaten its existence, and possibly against other targets as well. [1] The phrase also has been used more generally to describe Israel's nuclear program.[2]

Israel refuses to admit it has nuclear weapons or to describe how it would use them, an official policy of nuclear ambiguity, also known as "nuclear opacity." This has made it difficult for anyone outside the Israeli government to definitively describe its true nuclear policy, while still allowing Israel to influence the perceptions, strategies and actions of other governments.[6]

reply to post by BellaSabre

Oh please, this is just another hate thread in sheep's clothing. Ugh.

Well you have a few options.

1, can you actually contribute anything to it? Because you've broken 2 of the rules in the T&C right there in 1 post.
2, can you back up your claim of this being a hate thread?
3, you can easily click alert on each and every post you deem to be "hate speech" and have the mods do their job.

Hell, maybe it is a hate thread, but you failed to contribute to it, or even point out what you deemed to be "hate" so why bother even coming in?

Originally posted by PageAlaCearl
Like the pin?

You can get it free here...
www.ifcj.org...

I ordered mine months ago, but it has yet to arrive. I'm devastated.

Muslims are denying their own religion when they deny that Israel belongs to the Jews. This is Prof. Khaleel Mohammed, Assistant Professor at the Department of Religious Studies at San Diego State University, an honest Muslim who is simply following the Koran.

Mohammed: The Qur'an adumbrates several principles that hover around a common theme: God does not love injustice and will assist those who are wrongly treated. And it focuses so much on this that the person most mentioned in the Qur'an is Moses -- who is presented as God's revolutionary, and who leads a people despised and tormented for no other reason than that they worshipped God, out of the land of bondage to the Promised Holy Land.

The Qur'an in Chapter 5: 20-21 states quite clearly: Moses said to his people: O my people! Remember the bounty of God upon you when He bestowed prophets upon you , and made you kings and gave you that which had not been given to anyone before you amongst the nations. O my people! Enter the Holy Land which God has written for you, and do not turn tail, otherwise you will be losers."

The Quran goes on to say why the Israelites were not allowed to enter the land for forty years...but the thrust of my analysis is where Moses says that the Holy Land is that which God has "written" for the Israelites. In both Jewish and Islamic understandings of the term "written", there is the meaning of finality, decisiveness and immutability. And so we have the Written Torah (unchangeable) and the Oral Torah (which represents change to suit times). And in the Qur'an we have "Written upon you is the fast"--to show that this is something that is decreed, and which none can change. So the simple fact is then, from a faith-based point of view: If God has "written" Israel for the people of Moses, who can change this? SOURCE

They're just butthurt because Ishmael got passed over for Abraham's birthright, which by tradition he was entitled to; but it seems like God had other plans. The lesson? Never shake your fist at God, no matter how unjust you think His plan is. It never ends well.

"I will bless those who bless thee, and curse those who curse thee." ~ Gen 12:3

reply to post by PageAlaCearl

dear pageala...
consider this.
i bing searched your binary number, and it pulled up your response...alone.
microsoft runs a fast spider.
just a hummmmm....

What's your point?

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

I get the impression from most Americans on here that any invader to the US could expect a very unwarm welcome and most would rather die than let anyone take over

Within reason.

If I have a rock, and the enemy has a tank...I'm relocating. I've got feet, a brain, and at night, darkness, so you can bet I'll get out somehow, or die trying rather than be held in a cage.

As for another poster, who said disproving religion would end it... I don't think most Westerners understand the role of religion in these peoples' lives. Religion isn't just something they think about one day a week. It's something they LIVE every single day (both sides). Also, how do you disprove something like that? If folks want to believe, there is NOTHING you can show them to convince them otherwise.

It's really a sad state of affairs. I have to say though, turning the strip into a veritable prison is NOT the answer, and with time, will only spark more of a terrorist response. They need to either annex it proper, or cut it loose. One or the other.

in Saudi as the hajj comes on prayer times increase. At times of prayer at night, the shops close, and elders walk the streets to make sure everybody is praying. The shop owner pull the blinds and suhhhh's everyone so as to not get caught praying. Islam is as much a sham religion as any. Its when one gets tread on that gets the feathers ruffled.

"Don"t tread on Me" Is a Human reaction.