If Israel Is Not Evil, the World Is in Big Trouble

So that is your reason to destroy a nation and a race?

While the thread is definitely anti-semetic, I didn't see anywhere, where the OP advocated either of these. Instead, so far, the OP has only said he believes they are evil.

It dangerously skirts the area of hate speech, and I can't promise that another mod (or mods) may not deem it so.

However, the OP is also ignoring the very same acts and International condemnations, of the Palestinians. Neither party is the "good guy" in this scenario. The Palestinians send suicide bombers and rockets at Israel. Israel comes in with tanks and bombs of their own, etc.

Also, the OP's statements are extremely sweeping and general...basically demonizing an entire group of people for the acts of their government. Same thing happens with the Palestinians. They get demonized by the actions of the terrorist groups operating on their behalf...regardless of whether or not they support it.

Israel isn't going anywhere, and the Palestinians will never get their wish (control of Jerusalem). The whole situation is a perpetual impasse, and I can't see anything that will change it. The world feels the same, so we all simply let them duke it out in inevitability....

Reply to PageAlaCearl

What I am is Pro-peace. There is an arsenal of video footage on all sides of this issue, so why build up this collection? Why assume that I am pro- Israel because I simply question the bias of David Duke? This is how these things escalate. People abandon levelheadedness and misinterpret what is being said. If we all would holster our weapons and take a step back and try to communicate, maybe it would be beneficial. Let's build up and not tear down.

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by Bigfoot12714

 

I have problems with Israels policies, but when shadowed with the Holocaust I can understand, I still remember stories my great Uncle told me growing up, he was in a group that liberated one of the camps, the things he said he saw... Seriously I could see some of their attitudes after that.

First let me say this: Yes the holocaust was awful and Yes the Jewish people are, for lack of a better word, mistreated, but, there were five MILLION other people (i.e. homosexuals, blacks, gypsies) that were murdered in these camps as well. For Israel to be throwing it in everyone's face, as if to send the world on a guilt trip, and then and then turn around and do these horrible things and say it is justified because of the holocaust sickens me.

Also, isn't Judaism a belief, not a race?

Tell you the truth if a country made me live in a walled city and with held food and water from me as I watched my friend and family die from starvation, I think there gets to a point when life is not worth living and the only option is suicide bombing, go down shooting or die sitting there starving.

Brian Williams body language says it all... he cant even look him in the eye like a man after being put in his place. Israel needs to exist without borders without walls and without governments ruled by human beings. It should exist as a bastion of peace and freedom for all ruled by God's laws, not the laws of greedy men.

I don't hate Jews, Muslims, Christians or other - to each their own - I hate Zionism - and the oppression of those that are not what oppressors what them to be. I only wish freedom for all innocent people - this is not about religion or a type of people it's about an ideal that will leave many dead and the remaining slaves to Zionism (those of a different bloodline)

reply to post by Bigfoot12714


Ask a Jehovah Witness they'll tells you they where there too, the fact that the Nazi where murdering D-bags doesn't diminish the Attempted genocide, Countries REFUSED jewish people trying to flee the Nazi's, after the war people wouldn't take them in...

LIke I said, yes their policy are bad, so are half the other countries in the world, lets go bash on North Korea (also a crazy ass nuclear state) because they are starving their people.

Or wheres your Anger for the atrocity's in Burma?

I honestly think peoples views on Israel says a whole lot more about the person than the actual situation going on there.

Originally posted by micmerci
Reply to PageAlaCearl

What I am is Pro-peace. There is an arsenal of video footage on all sides of this issue, so why build up this collection? Why assume that I am pro- Israel because I simply question the bias of David Duke? This is how these things escalate. People abandon levelheadedness and misinterpret what is being said. If we all would holster our weapons and take a step back and try to communicate, maybe it would be beneficial. Let's build up and not tear down.

edit on 19-4-2012 by micmerci because: (no reason given)

There is a difference between the two - Israel is not walled in, Palestinians don't dictate anything, Israel dictates who comes, goes, eats, gets medical attention in the prison city.

reply to post by PageAlaCearl

and the only option is suicide bombing, go down shooting or die sitting there starving.

Or MOVE....that's what I would do.

It's not like the Gaza strip is paradise on Earth or anything.
I never could get that...

It's like Sam Kenison said...MOVE TO THE FOOD! We got deserts in America...we just don't LIVE in them... Words of wisdom.

reply to post by PageAlaCearl


Since your so into humanitarianism, where are all your threads on the regular atrocities that occur on a daily basis through out the world that the US chose to ignore because it doesn't match their current globalization goals?

I love how through out this thread there calls of where are the shills etc, when it seems this thread falls under the very same category as being a shill for a set agenda, and not some grand humanitarian view...

reply to post by Gazrok

Welcome to Palestine – if you can get in

Israel's threat to deny visitors entry to Palestine is as disturbing as it is shocking. Our protest will be a civil society tsunami

www.guardian.co.uk...

If you can't get in how can they get out?

Yes, you read correctly. Israel is threatening to refuse to allow Palestinians living in the occupied Palestinian territory to receive visitors from abroad.

Love how they call it an occupied territory..

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by PageAlaCearl

 

Since your so into humanitarianism, where are all your threads on the regular atrocities that occur on a daily basis through out the world that the US chose to ignore because it doesn't match their current globalization goals?

I love how through out this thread there calls of where are the shills etc, when it seems this thread falls under the very same category as being a shill for a set agenda, and not some grand humanitarian view...

edit on 19-4-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)

Yes, I have called out shills as they are very prominent here on ATS: look at hooper or goodoldave 800+ 9/11 posts and no posts in other forums - you really think people only post on one conspiracy subject - they go into every 9/11 thread with no source and make fun of people that don't believe in the official 9/11 report. They should be called out.

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by PageAlaCearl

 

Since your so into humanitarianism, where are all your threads on the regular atrocities that occur on a daily basis through out the world that the US chose to ignore because it doesn't match their current globalization goals?

I have tons of threads of Japan radiation, the crimes of Monsanto, etc.. I can't post on every atrocity in the world....

reply to post by PageAlaCearl


Thank you, people who are pro-Israel are not Shills (the point I was trying to make) as that combined with the statement of "this thread will be closed" shows a huge bias of your own, people who support Israel may actually have a real well thought opinion on the matter, maybe even have done real research on the matter, and may have actual seen the situation in Israel with their own eyes.

If you can't get in how can they get out?

Same tunnels they move goods in and out, of Egypt, of course.

en.wikipedia.org...

There are plenty of ways former Gaza occupants have gotten out. I'm sorry, but I'd risk my life trying to get out WAY before I'd do the same throwing a rock at a tank...but that's just me I guess...

Admittedly though, this policy of refusing those inside to leave, is like the world's largest open-air prison. I'll grant you that.

people who support Israel may actually have a real well thought opinion on the matter, maybe even have done real research on the matter, and may have actual seen the situation in Israel with their own eyes.

I have to say that I've thought it out, researched it, been there (and in other parts of the Middle East), and known quite a few Israelis and Palestinians (who no longer live there). I can't say I feel that EITHER side is right. They have both committed atrocities, and are BOTH too stubborn to ever reach any kind of lasting accord. I think these two peoples are destined to oppose each other until the end of the world, if you ask me, so any attempt to sway opinion one way or the other is an exercise in futility.

reply to post by benrl


I don't think bashing anyone is ever necessary. What I'm trying to convey is that the way they are acting (holocaust/justified etc.) is wrong, in my opinion, as well as killing others. If I saw a person with one leg cutting other people's legs of screaming "This is how i felt!" I would feel the same way towards that person, as I would towards anyone else if they were doing something of this sort.

There's no excuse for killing thousands of people, ever.

Keep the peace brotha

reply to post by Gazrok

I think these two peoples are destined to oppose each other until the end of the world, if you ask me, so any attempt to sway opinion one way or the other is an exercise in futility.

Or at least until someone disproves religion....

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by PageAlaCearl

 

Thank you, people who are pro-Israel are not Shills (the point I was trying to make) as that combined with the statement of "this thread will be closed" shows a huge bias of your own, people who support Israel may actually have a real well thought opinion on the matter, maybe even have done real research on the matter, and may have actual seen the situation in Israel with their own eyes.

I said that because eventually it will as all my Israel threads have in the past, just speaking from past history, nothing else.

reply to post by Bigfoot12714


That analogy works if the person getting his leg sawed off is attacking the man with no legs family...

at which point someone either needs to tell them both to knock it off, or let it play out and mind your own business...

Ill be honest, I am a complete Isolationist, Let the world deal with its self until they Directly bother the US, otherwise we should mind or fricken business, I just don't get the school of thought that Palestine gets a pass to attack isreal school buses (kinda like your argument of hey the holocaust gives us the right to do the same), but Israel needs to sit there and take it, and appease them...

its the same reason it bothers me when people will gleefully forget the horrible things happening every where in the world, yet when its Israel the outrage is instant...

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by Bigfoot12714

 

until they Directly bother the US, otherwise we should mind or fricken business

Too late the US is one with Israel....



Like the pin?

You can get it free here...
www.ifcj.org...

Support the annihilation of another country, shock and awe, woot, woot!

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by Bigfoot12714

 

I just don't get the school of thought that Palestine gets a pass to attack isreal school buses (kinda like your argument of hey the holocaust gives us the right to do the same), but Israel needs to sit there and take it, and appease them...

Palestinians shouldn't be doing it either. Once again all I am saying is that it is a poor (to say the least) justification, whoever the culprit is.

I think one of the problems that we have when it comes to Israel is people's inability to clearly elucidate on the topic. Let's take me for an example, and run from there.

The following things are true, as far as I'm concerned. True about me, true about Israel.

1) I support Israel, and her right to exist in the traditional (Biblical) borders of Israel.
2) I believe that Israel's refunification in 1948 was a fulfilment of prophecy, and the result of divine providence.
3) I believe that Israel were, and are, God's chosen people.

but with those things said (and here's where I think a lot of people go wrong)... that does NOT mean that everything Israel does is above reproach. Being God's chosen people does not mean you are automatically right in everything that you do. Were that the case, the Hebrews would never have worshipped a golden calf on their way out of Egypt, or failed to follow God's instructions when they entered the promised land. They wouldn't have made Saul their King, or failed repeatedly to follow God's law throughout the times of the judges, nor would they have willingly subjected themselves to enslavement to legalism under the Pharasaical system.

Israel has a special place in God's plan. This is true Biblically, and I believe that we see the outworking of this fact in history. However, this does not mean that their treatment of the Palestinean people (whether that 'nationality' is real or contrived isn't really the issue here) is justified, nor does it mean that her politicians are above reproach. This simply isn't the case.

Being spiritually "enlightened" to understand Israel's place in God's plan doesn't grant you the freedom to be blind to the realities of life in Palestine.

With that said too, however, I think it's important to be balanced. We need to start looking with clear vision at BOTH sides of the divide. The Palestinean people are victims here on multiple levels: both in terms of their treatment from Israel, and in terms of their subjection and abuse at the hands of their own leadership, whether Hamas or Fatah... and in terms of their rejection and use as a political pawn in the hands of Muslims around the world. No matter how you wish to slice it, the fact is that the majority of Palestineans are either of Jordanean or Saudi origin. Not only were these people prevented entry back into their homeland(s) in the 1940's and 1950's, but they have been used as a political instrument in anti-Israel rhetoric ever since.

We often talk about a two-state solution; suggesting that it should be possible for these two peoples to live side by side. In a strictly worldly sense, there is no reason why that couldn't and shouldn't be the case, however, the misrepresentation of the Palestinean people at the political level, and their usefulness as a political tool means that this will never be the case.

Unfortunately, this is the situation that the Palestinean people find themselves in. Their leadership continue to lend credence to the accusation that they are all terrorists committed to the annihilation of Israel, while their "supporters" around the world have nothing to gain from seeing them living in peace. In such circumstances, Israel must straddle the difficult position between seeking peace with her neighbours, and defending her own borders from those who would seek her disappearance from the pages of history. And this, it must be said, they have done very, very poorly.

If Israel is to be viewed as the Middle East's model of democracy and freedom (as she often claims to be), she must begin to more clearly differentiate between the Palestinean people, and the Palestinean leadership. Likewise, the Palestinean people must begin to seperate themselves ideologically from those who rule their territories. After all, it was they who gave power to Hamas, whose teachings, political policies and philosophies, are inherently anti-Israel and pro-terrorist.

Ultimately, however, none of this discussion matters.
There will be no peace in Israel until the Antichrist brokers a false peace...
and there will be no true peace in Israel, or in the world, until Christ rules from Jerusalem.
Until then, she will remain a "stumbling block" to the nations, and a point of contention.