What if someone told you that God told them He used evolution to create the world?

reply to post by Flavian


Let me first say that I do indeed respect your opinion, I must have said this 10 times today, we all stand to learn something from eachother. The way a person is raised or brought up does indeed play a role in the descions they make, but we have to define what good morals are and more importantly we need to remember where they came from. There are many laws and rules that communicate what is acceptable behavoir, and what consequences they bring when not followed. When you compare the laws of today with those that are in any faith based organization (10 commandments, Patimokkha, Halakha, Sharia , etc.) there are many similarities. Naturally you would have to discard the ritual practices, I am referring more to the core values, the laws that pertain to morality and human decency. So I ask, who has set the bar on what is moral?? To me the answer is simple, God.

PLPL

reply to post by EarthEvolves

How would you respond if someone told you that God spoke to them and told them that He worked through evolutionary processes? Remember that the sacred Books of the various religions began as real or purported Revelations. Those Revelations cannot be questioned scientifically, or you are testing the Lord your God.

I would say finally, finally, someone from that side "gets it". Evolution is all but proven, for me it is, but I digress.... How else would a creator ensure a biologically diverse planet without evolution as a driving force?

reply to post by Minori


I wondered where our laws came from, thanks for letting me know.

Imagine your a creature a bit like a dog living on a planet like earth which earlier dogs built, with things from stuff, your a dog that doesn't beleive in god since you can't read and in any case god doesn't exist because everthing is made by dogs out of things from stuff. Sometimes things bumped into other stuff by accident without intervention from dogs and made other stuff and other things. some dogs couldn't beleive this as everthing was made by dogs-it must be a miracle.

Anyhow...

So you there making things out of stuff and not believing in god when another bigger dog bites your back, you kill the other dog for biting your back, and then you shag his wife and pee on his basket. its dog crime and punishment. without man, without law, without god.

its known as natural order and laws form out of the status quo of natural order, no one like being bitten but crime and punishment do not require god to balance the scales-it happens naturally over a period of time-just like everything else.

Laws came from the church those folks could write stuff down and people would believe it, excellent work.

But if they hadn't been written down by people with beards anarchy would probably reign and startlingly would be about the same if not more effective than current systems of formalised legislature (nature is anarchy it has a natural order and complex living organisms (not you) know what justice is)

You humans.

Originally posted by iterationzero
reply to post by EarthEvolves

 

Most, if not all, of the Harry Potter novels take place in England in their entirety. There is an empirically and objectively observable place called England. Does this mean that the Harry Potter novels are a true story?

WOW! I finally made a thread that made it to the big leagues if you will. Lots of acrimony, accusations, and yes, lots of posts and flags. Still, no applause or stars, I guess. I'm just not cool like the dudes who claim that they witnessed Obama praying to Mecca aboard a UFO at Area 51 while making love to Marilyn Monroe. (He is really a clone of Kennedy, a brother of a different mother) Well, at least this thread got people on the hop.

I cannot respond to every comment, so I will respond to this one on the basis of what I *THINK* this individual is saying. If I misunderstood, or if I did not address all critical points, I apologize. Alright, my rephrase of your question, with permission: Are Harry Potter novels a true story given that there is some fact mixed in with them (location, et al)? Presumably you are suggesting that my hypothetical Prophet does get some scientific facts right, just like Emmanuel Swedenborg predicted the Nebular Hypothesis, but that he is still a deluded religious maniac. In your eyes, that does not prove anything.

My answer is that the Harry Potter novels are obvious works of fiction. There is no truth claim implied. In the case of someone who claims to have received a Revelation, and gets a scientific fact correct that is falsifiable and eventually proven, then that is empirical evidence. It may not be conclusive, but it is empirical. The comparison is false, with respect. In one case we have a truth claim. In the other case we have an obvious work of fiction. Unless I have misunderstood your point, I have to answer thus.

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by EarthEvolves

 

i'd say what i say to to all creation "scientists":

"you're just trying to sneak god in through the back door"

Actually, no. They are trying to apply the principles of uniformitarianism and yet cling to Fundamentalism at the same time. That is contradictory.

reply to post by Darkstar74


In spite of the sarcasm I enjoyed your dog analogy. Here is how I look at things, natural order was instilled in humans and nature by God, human law was derived from natural order. One long chain of order starting at the top with God. It starts with him, and it will end with him.

PLPL

reply to post by Minori

All hail BRAHMA, the one and only true god

reply to post by EarthEvolves

I cannot respond to every comment, so I will respond to this one on the basis of what I *THINK* this individual is saying. If I misunderstood, or if I did not address all critical points, I apologize. Alright, my rephrase of your question, with permission: Are Harry Potter novels a true story given that there is some fact mixed in with them (location, et al)? Presumably you are suggesting that my hypothetical Prophet does get some scientific facts right, just like Emmanuel Swedenborg predicted the Nebular Hypothesis, but that he is still a deluded religious maniac. In your eyes, that does not prove anything.

You seem to have divined my point (no pun intended) correctly. Going into a little more detail, I'd argue that attempts to rationalize ancient religious texts with modern science are, on the whole, little more than highly subjective post hoc rationalization.

My answer is that the Harry Potter novels are obvious works of fiction. There is no truth claim implied. In the case of someone who claims to have received a Revelation, and gets a scientific fact correct that is falsifiable and eventually proven, then that is empirical evidence. It may not be conclusive, but it is empirical. The comparison is false, with respect. In one case we have a truth claim. In the other case we have an obvious work of fiction. Unless I have misunderstood your point, I have to answer thus.

An obvious work of fiction to one is a holy scripture to another. No offense, but theists tend to be dismissive of all religious texts than their own as being "obvious works of fiction". I simply lump one more into that same category than they do.

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by Flavian

 

God talks to you personally and answers you all the time,

But your eyes are not open to Him, so you don't realize it's happening (which is basically 24/7)

It doesn't matter what you believe or don't believe, nothing changes factual reality.

Even some brilliant secular minds admit that we are most likely living in a simulation..... it's just that they are clueless as to who the conductor is, whereas I and other enlightened individuals are awake and in tune with the Conductor....

Which god is talking............... huh

Christian God, Muslim God, Jewish God, I'm confused by all these Gods.

Each religion says the other is not a true God....... I say none of them are real and it is all a delusional
comfort blanket to those who believe such nonsense!

I can excuse children as they don't know any better, but an adult well.....

Show why (If God exists), that there is more than one religion all claiming the same as you!!!

reply to post by rigel4

Which god is talking............... huh

Christian God, Muslim God, Jewish God, I'm confused by all these Gods.

There is only one God. All of those descriptions of God are inadequate, and all of them fail immediately. To attempt to define God, would also be an attempt to personify God, and if God is God, then no personification is adequate.

How can a human describe something omnipotent? We have no concept of omnipotence. Anything we attempt to describe as God will have human limitations.

There is only one God, and it encompasses all of those you named, and many more, and everything we know, and an infinite amount that we don't even know that we don't know.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I was getting ready to tap out a reply to him, but you took the words right outta my mouth.

Amen then!

Evolution doesn't disprove the existence of gods. Nor does it explain how life started. It only shows how life diversified after it started.

Originally posted by pacifier2012
God wouldn't change his word

That´s blasphemy you know, God does what ever the hell God pleases,
and you, i or anybody else don´t get to say damn thing about what God would or wouldn´t do.

What if in the beginning there were only two things. A vastness void and a source of something. The something realized it was alone and no one to share everything it knew with. So this something contemplated about either "A" staying alone or "B" create everything to share itself with? Then it knew of all the problems that would come with the sharing, but realized the only thing it could do was to let it be if it decided to create and share and not interfere and allow everything to become on its own. This something then decided to share itself and morphed into what we have become to know the yin and yang. This something had to become everything, so in order to do so it had to change and become. Then through a word of "I am" it was done. Through a simple word everything was born and no more silence was to be known. So now there is no going back and everything must gradually become what it becomes for eternity with no interference and let it be.

So in a sense it is both from a creation and a evolution. This something created everything and let it be to only share the one simple thing and its called sharing everything. That is beauty in itself and free from all.

Quote: No offense, but theists tend to be dismissive of all religious texts than their own as being "obvious works of fiction".

EarthEvolves responds: On behalf of theists, we thank you for telling us what we believe. We appreciate it, believe us. We may not all agree on everything, but we can all agree to thank you for defining our beliefs for us.

Whether evolution is fact or not to others... really doesn't matter to me much, however.....

*Proof* is what some need. Here is mine in a nutshell.

I think when someone "experiences" (is alive) it evolves. Period. We see evidence of this.

Some actually experience a "Divine being" which allows for and is called Spiritual Evolution. We also see evidence of this.

This is where it actually matters ..for me anyway.

Both only matter to me when I look at the bigger picture because~...

Is it more important for you to Evolve Physically or Spiritually?

The "Physical" decays in the end of its evolving state.... it grows to the point of void. There is darkness in it and where there is darkness, there is no light.

Where is YOU (you imo are in your MIND.. in the physical and spiritual)?

The "Spiritual" continues to evolve even after the physical has expired because imo it comes from Light. Light does not cease. There is always light.

Originally posted by Iason321
btw my IQ has been tested several times and been ~130 every time, well above average.

Sure thing, bud. Listen it's painfully obvious you haven't even picked up a basic book or wiki article about the evolutionary process and how things change SLOWLY over time. You don't just suddenly have 1 baby human and the rest are all apes. Things don't just evolve suddenly out of thin air. That notion is ludicrous.

I am also an FAA certified Air Traffic Controller, qualified to operate a Terminal Radar Approach control scope at any RAPCON/TRACON in america,

and I hold a degree in Airway Science from the United States Air Force,

And I am currently studying Theology and Christian ministry on my own,

Unfortunately none of that qualifies you to speak on evolution, let alone make ridiculous claims about it.

reply to post by Barcs


How about you read the last post I made to you in the other thread, or the other threads I've made, or any of my recent posts, before you keep embarrasing yourself and looking like a judgmental jackaloon?

reply to post by EarthEvolves

Are you claiming you value all religious texts and sources, regardless of origin or content? Or are you just being petulant?

reply to post by Iason321


I just read it. I realize now that it was just an error. No worries.