Just want to know if you truly understand this:

reply to post by absolutely

Imans, your really losing it, you might want to chill a little...And your impatience is showing, your like one of them little dogs who always barks at shadows for no reason at all. It is an annoying thing to do.

And just so you know pets have conscious, and they are also conscious of being pets. Well most of them are anyways, some cats really do stretch that boundary, some even think there people, and some even think there better then people and that they own the place. No joke, you give them food and there like...

"What is this #, I want my fancy feast" Then they walk away and proceed to lick there butts in the corner. Delicate tastes indeed.

The nerve of some creatures I tells you absolutely, irritating the hand that feeds them.

reply to post by jiggerj


"But, without you (whether you were never born or you died) everything else still exists."

^This cannot be proved.^
However quantum mechanics has discovered this:
youtu.be...

Originally posted by BladeRunner5050
I am sorry I read your original post and then some of page four. I was just trying to say you seemed pessimistic of everything saying how Insignicant we are , and after you start trying to accept there is a god and there is meaning to life you feel better and optimistic. Everything is beaming sunshine and all of a sudden everything makes sense. You can stop and notice a sunset and sit in awe.

I am sorry if I seemed forward, everyday I read about the different aetheists here sometimes fighting with the religious. I tried to see if I could possibly reach you and get you to maybe reconsider your views or look at other peoples I guess. Altered perceptions.

I will agree that humanity is not perfect, but there is also a lot of good people do. Maybe you shouldn't try to be so negative. Nature may work itself out , but it can also be cruel and harsh. People are generally kind and caring to animals and the planet , not vicious and evil.

LOL I'm not being pessimistic at all. There is a BIG difference between feeling important to other humans as opposed to the belief that the universe exists just for us. That we are the 'chosen' species.

We are simply humans doing human things, as much as polar bears do polar bear things.

As far as people being kind to the animals, I'm thinking you have no idea how wrong you are! Do a google search for "what animals are extinct due to humans".

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


as far as u believe that u r what u get, as much as u prove being the issue

stop calling me names to stand superior in ur head free, individuality is an absolute fact when u r not realizing urself name u prove then the evil u r by meaning others names as inferior thing to ur state of being free out of that objective fact

it is obvious how u mean everyone being pets only to assert ur superiority through others inferiority while focusing on its essence being always fed as constant positive thing

when truth is absolute superiority which is freedom value, then anyone so any conscious out of objective reality is suppositely able to b constant free value, so meaning respecting free superiority or superior freedom, is never about what u get from while all to what u stand right as free, so all to self respect

but considering truth superiority as else fact always is more then respecting its existence by acting as a matter of fact relative to

supporting objective freedom rights from acting that truth superiority is always first positive free reality right before oneself positive free realisation rights, is the issue that noone want to do, while it is the only condition for existence to become real

and the fact that u and all ur gods do the reverse, which is truth rights abuse in existence freedom values and realities, in order to realize first any fact of urself being positive free existing fact, prove how the issue is an absolute true issue of individuality truth that no objective existence deserve

it is ur issue, i dont care about existence but i care all about my dignity as individual freedom, so u r left with epsilon truth end to ur existence while u mean truth existence rights ends, enjoying fighting with truth when by defining urself being pets, u r asserting ur disability to b in truth, so even those joys of fights u r used to in pretending being any u cant stand on for fighting with truth, that is fighting with u till ur end

reply to post by SoulVoid


This Quote answers your question Best!

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.

The Buddha

Originally posted by absolutely
reply to post by galadofwarthethird

 

as far as u believe that u r what u get, as much as u prove being the issue

Sorry Abs, I don't do sentences without capitals or punctuation. If you want to communicate with others, then the burden is on you to compose your ideas in a way that makes it easier for others to read. The work is yours, not ours.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by jiggerj

 

"But, without you (whether you were never born or you died) everything else still exists."

^This cannot be proved.^
However quantum mechanics has discovered this:
youtu.be...

edit on 19-4-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

I've watched that several times over the last few years and it drives me nuts. I can't help thinking that quantum physicists are asking the wrong questions when it comes to observer influence. It's the only thing I can think of. Don't know if you've ever heard this, but this is what it reminds me of:

A scientist proclaims that the ears of a frog are on its legs. First he puts a frog on the table and yells 'JUMP!" The frog jumps. Then he cuts the frog's legs off and once again yells 'JUMP!'. The frog doesn't jump. "See!" said the scientist, "The frog can't hear me!"

In other words, I think we really have to take our focus away from the observer in the double slit experiment. But don't ask me where we should focus. I don't have a clue.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by jiggerj

 

"But, without you (whether you were never born or you died) everything else still exists."

^This cannot be proved.^

Am I not thinking right when I say that I have many friends and family members that have died, and we're all still here?

Originally posted by AsuspiciousMANappears

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by AsuspiciousMANappears
Because you lack information and base all you assumptions on the theory of a GOD. What if we all have a soul group of between 10 and 30 people/souls, what if we are born from A source one of many, what if we choose to come to earth with our soul group and experience life and death in a contain environment because we cannot experience such thing at home aka the other side. What if I told you iv seen it? you would not believe it or take any of this information in....an one day will remember you have done this a million times before and maybe even remember this post in your life review, and go doh!

Interesting, Asus. By now this thread has gotten so long that a few topics have melded together (I don't mind this at all). So, in reference to my assumptions on the theory of a god, it's not my point at all.

Let's say there is a god, and he had a hundred pennies. He decided to create the universe and give one penny to everything in existence (just go with it, lol). A penny to mankind, a penny to birds, a penny to the suns, a penny to comets - one penny to everything. Well, somehow mankind convinced itself that we received 99 cents, and this god split that last penny amongst everything else. And that's just wrong.

So, if people want to believe there's a heaven waiting for them, if people want to believe that they have used the power of their minds to travel to other dimensions, hey, fine! But no matter what we do or where we go, we're still just worth a penny like everything else. That's all I'm sayin'.

edit on 4/18/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

What if one "thing" dies out like dinosaurs what happened to their penny?. I know for a fact that we are not all equal, the was the scariest part of my experiences. Earth is a very much beginners course in a solid matter existence. You say people might say they have used the power of their minds to travel to other dimension. Not only can I prove this to you I can show you %100 guaranteed way to enter a different dimension. But it is literately beyond comprehension and fries your brain after a while like downloading 1gb into a 1mb hdd.....ahh I must be talking rubbish rite? if you want this info just ask and I will PM you.

I almost want to, but my health is poor and I'm tired all the time. Sadly, this chat forum is about all I can handle. I just don't have the mental endurance to delve deeply into new subjects. I'm ready for a nap now.

reply to post by jiggerj


"We are truly nothing. Zip. Zero. Zilch. We need to accept it, and get over it. "
We are so much nothing that what we produce is even more nothing. And, what we post on a forum is certainly an even lighter shade of nothing. As such, your post is so nothing it might as well not be here and you might as well remove it - because there would certainly be less nothing if you removed your nothingless post.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by jiggerj

 

"But, without you (whether you were never born or you died) everything else still exists."

^This cannot be proved.^

Am I not thinking right when I say that I have many friends and family members that have died, and we're all still here?

You will always be 'here'. Things that are seen come and go. You are the seer of all things, people who 'die' to you are no more than appearances and disappearances. All things appear and disappear but you as the seer will never disappear because you never made an appearance in the first place.
What is seen is the illusion but the seer cannot be seen so is not an illusion.

Wow, I stumbled onto this documentary called 'God and the Universe'. I haven't heard the speaker's name, but he is GOOD! Well, if you believe in a god. He starts out by using the immense universe to explain just how really really BIG god is, and the audience went out of their minds cheering. As he explained and showed how big our galaxy is, at around 15:28 minutes he mentioned that it not only proves how big god is, but how really really small we are; and the audience went stone cold silent.

We just don't like thinking of ourselves as small. lol The documentary is long, but have a look at least up to 18 minutes.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

You will always be 'here'. Things that are seen come and go. You are the seer of all things, people who 'die' to you are no more than appearances and disappearances. All things appear and disappear but you as the seer will never disappear because you never made an appearance in the first place.
What is seen is the illusion but the seer cannot be seen so is not an illusion.

I watched a clip on that. It was very interesting. It's amazing what our minds can come up with. Well, some minds. Definitely not mine.

reply to post by jiggerj


The mind 'creates' the world you 'think' you know. But reality is what is appearing right here and right now, it cannot appear any other time or place, but the human mind imagines (makes images) of past/future and 'other'. The mind is amazing but it is just a tool for you to use. You are the seer of thought, the mind is nothing more than one thought appearing and disappearing. You can watch the thought arise presently.

reply to post by jiggerj

Last I heard, the nature of reality, down to the quantum level is NON-local, and holographic, meaning that nothing, no matter how big or small, is insigificant, including the human being as the culmination of a very long and increasingly complexified, cosmic evolutionary journey/progression.

Perhaps your frame of reference is off...?

Personally I'm getting sick and tired of a purely materialist monist viewpoint, when the monistic idealist framework (consciousness, not matter, is primary) increasingly appears to be more congruent with reality as it is (no matter how strange or counterintuitive), because it's the only way to resolve all the quantum paradoxes satisfactorily.

Thou art that.

Stop belittling the human being in creation, it's not appropriate.

Edit to add: We are not a thing, not a tiny "it", and cannot be made into a nothing, just because we are emersed in a very VERY large universe that is teeming with life. It doesn't make us small, to the contrary, it reveals life itself to be miraculous and the human being a marvel of creation.

Your POV seems to be biased by a strong atheistic, materialist position.

Life isn't a thing, it's a process, as are we, intrinsic to the very heart of it all.

And we must remember too that in a non-local, holographic universe - local matters, and nothing is insignificant down to a blade of grass or the skin on the tip of your baby finger.

There is one other possibility we may wish to consider re: the place of the human being in evolutionary creation, where timespans and space, and the number of stars and planets are absolutely mind-blowing, and that is this. If cosmic evolution is also of a non-local, holographic nature with information sharing through the zero point field or akashic field ie: for a single photon of light, the whole universe is touching in a timeless, spaceless domain, then it's entirely possible if not probable, that "the last are first, and the first, last" meaning that the most recently evolved are the latest and greatest, even if only in potentia. Maybe at some level we stand at the apex of a very very long evolutionary process being the most recent sentients on the scene, and have been made to contain, at the deepest level, the most spirit, if not the highest degree of pure brainpower or intelligence. Things to consider before bashing on the place of the human being in creation and relegating us to a meaningless, insignificance..

P.S. That will either warm your heart and make you laugh out loud, or harden your heart and cause you to grit your teeth, depending on your disposition.

And the truth, let us remember, is probably rather solipsistic no matter who or where you are, whether a human being on planet earth, or a schmorg on (inpronouncible).

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Last I heard, the nature of reality, down to the quantum level is NON-local, and holographic, meaning that nothing, no matter how big or small, is insigificant, including the human being as the culmination of a very long and increasingly complexified, cosmic evolutionary journey/progression.

Perhaps your frame of reference is off...?

No, my frame of reference is not off in the slightest. When I suggest that we are insignificant it is only in the context and contradtiction of the way mankind perceives itself as greater than everythng else. That everything created (the birds, the land, the universe...) was created for us. This is NOT so. We have our humble place in the universe. We are not gods, not even close. We may have been given the right to swim in the water, but we do not own the ocean.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Stop belittling the human being in creation, it's not appropriate.

And we must remember too that in a non-local, holographic universe - local matters, and nothing is insignificant down to a blade of grass or the skin on the tip of your baby finger.

Well, there you go! You just admitted and agreed to what I've been trying to say. We are not greater than even a blade of grass. Once mankind accepts this idea, once mankind steps down from the pedestal, THEN we can say how great EVERYTHING is, not just man.

reply to post by jiggerj

It's all part of one great process, and our ability to observe it all and marvel at it all, and reflect, that's really something, it changes everything, the awareness of the beauty and magnificence and the almost miraculous nature of the great mystery of all time - that's special! Our thinking ourselves as mere things separate from everything else, while imagining that we are over it all, that's just stupid, as would be relegating us to a place on par with a blade of grass, or even a bird (however cute they are).

Man is an extraordinary phenomenon, and the highest expression (at least on earth) of an ongoing evolutionary process, and there is a spiritual element to it all that cannot be denied, because we're NOT a "thing", but a process, an evolving BEING.

We're losing our unique beingness however, and by taking your opposing stance, you are equally unhelpful to the cause of coming into a better awareness and understanding of our place in the cosmos.

There's more going on than meets the eye and it's not just skin deep, not just skin and bones. I think it's high time we start to honor the who and the what we REALLY are as human beings, or as spiritual beinga having a human experience, and if that sounds too touchie feelie or newagey I don't care.

People are starting to debase the human being by going in the opposite direction, some even wish that all humans were wiped off the face of the earth - idiots, they don't have the first clue and are definitely operating from the wrong frame of reference (I don't mean you).

Our problem is the degree of our own stupidity and ignorance, not our immamence and splendour as self-aware beings in creation.

reply to post by BladeRunner5050

WHOA! Hold up there! People on the majority being KIND and CARING? Well I have some news for YOU! I wish what you say were true...but it is not. I have been around...everywhere...lots of travel...meeting inumerable people and it is true that there are alot of Good and Caring people out there...but then...CHANGE CONDITIONS.

When this is done...a change in the weather that produces a drought...a break out of Disease...WAR...Famine...Flooding...Earthquakes...Market Fluctuations that cause the loss of a persons life savings...and the BIG ONE....which we will see in our lifetimes....Global Warming causing massive amounts of Atmospheric Energy due to greater amounts of heated Water Vapor and changes in the Salinity of Ocean Water due to Fresh Water Ice Melt at the Poles and Greenland...which will change the flow of Ocean Currents such as the Gulf Stream Ocean Current that is a Warm Water conveyor belt that brings warm ocean water from the Gulf of Mexico arround Florida and up the coast as it gradually crosses the Atlantic and warms the ocean and air in the United Kingdom areas. If too much fresh water is melted from Global Warming...this enormous emount of Fresh Water will float above the heavier Salt water. Salt water does not heat up as fast as fresh water so what happens is if there is too much Fresh Water in this current...the Heavier Salt water will sink well below the Fresh water which will Super Heat in Ocean Current Terms...thus a much greater in weight and depth Salt Water Thermocline will stall this conveyor belt of a Current. The Gulf Steam conveyor belt Current allows Warm water to be transported from the Southern Part of the North Atlantic to the Northern part of the North Atlantic...thus the United Kingdom has fair weather in a relatively Northern Part of the Earth. If the Current stalls....the Water that is around the United Kingdom cannot return back to the South Part of the North Atlantic...the Air Temperatures as well as Ocean Water Temps. will begin to drop in the Northern areas of the North Atlantic...this WILL CAUSE AN ICE AGE! It is not a Movie Script sensation...it has happened MANY TIMES in the past when Giant Super Volcanos Erupted and Pumped alot of CO2 into the air that at first started a Runaway Green House Effect until the Poles Melted and Stalled THE OCEANS GULF STREAM. Temps. dropped so quickly that Mamoths have been dug out of the Permafrost and Glacier Ice with Food still in their Mouths...they froze so quickly that they are perfectly preserved and when their digestive tracks were cut into and probed...some had chewed grasses undigested in their stomachs as well as going down their throats. The only way this could happen is for the temps. to drop from 35 to 40 degrees F. to 165 degrees BELOW ZERO Fahrenheit INSTANTLY! Split Infinity