War Plan Red – America’s Secretive plans for war..

reply to post by IPEEINTHESHOWER


Not bashing America here, but the for the sake of this ape i shall post this.

Fighting a revolution isn't the same as fighting a war.

Once a militia or guerrilla group starts and spreads, its very very difficult to quell it. Yes even if you are the worlds strongest Empire.

Little history lesson here;

VIETNAM - Yeah you failed pretty badly in that one right? Despite the fact the US military was better equipped and trained? Explain..

USSR AFGHAN - The might Soviet army failed the invasion of Afghanistan due to rebels, failing again, even with superior weaponry and numbers.

JEWISH REVOLT - The Roman military garrison of Judaea was quickly overrun by rebels and the pro-Roman king Agrippa II fled Jerusalem, together with Roman officials to Galilee. The legion, however, was ambushed and defeated by Jewish rebels at the Battle of Beth Horon, a result that shocked the Roman leadership.

---

Are you getting the drift here? From a military perspective fighting a rebellion is too costly, takes too much time, and at the end of the day is not worth the trouble.

Make no mistake, if the British Empire forced all it's might on the Colonies you would of been crushed in a matter of months.

Originally posted by shake101
The US and Great Britain have a history so deep you cannot ever fathom. You will never see a war between the US and the UK. These two lovers along with Israel are the ultimate trio of power. They will always side with each other.

Canada on the other side, I don't think there's any benefit in meddling with them. We've already claimed Alaska for the minerals and natural resources. Unless we run out of those resources which, is mostly oil, there won't be war. The oil industry is doomed to its demise soon anyway. We will be switching to alternative energy before Canada becomes a problem.

Many marriages end in Divorce.

There is a REASON we are joined at the hip with Israel -- because the Mossad got so much dirt on so many crooked politicians. If you can Remember way back to the 1990's -- the Republicans in the USA were not big fans of Judaism, and every red neck and KKK member had a jewish conspiracy theory.

... and that's the dang strange thing. Right AFTER 9/11 the Bush family was suddenly pro Israel -- I challenge anyone to find one kind word they had to say before that date.

>> We've been joined at the hip with England -- but only because we've got a lot of crooks with mutual bank accounts. The American public seems to be pretty malleable to the press, and if the next gang in power wants us to hate someone -- then all of a sudden Evangelical preachers, radio talk show hosts, and pundits will all agree what a threat they are.

How many places today, do we know about, because Wolf Blitzer put them up on a 3D war map?

>> And this "alliance" with Israel is entirely one-way. Their agents spy on us, and have paid bloggers manipulating speech, and every bit of military tech we send them gets reverse engineered and sold to China for a handy profit.

I say this as someone who grew up in a Jewish neighborhood with many jewish friends -- it's got NOTHING to do with the people. It's due to the insecurity of Israel, that their leaders put a priority on manipulations, assassinations, compromising foreign leaders and spying.

We are tightly ALLIED with Israel only because all our crooks in high places can get ruined by them. Just go on YouTube sometime, and watch how our politicians vie for how "hard they would defend Israel" -- they don't even show this kind of allegiance to the USA.

>> I never expected I'd be in a world where I was the one cautioning people about trusting Israel -- but these are strange times indeed.

reply to post by godofme


Yes -- the Brits could have crushed the American Revolution. They were just in the midst of OTHER problems at the time.

We also had a lot of help from the French -- so it's likely that France might have made more trouble for England if things escalated.

>> The other thing people don't realize is that there were MANY Colonists who were still allied with England. Shopkeepers who imported goods, people of means and in power. The Rebels were people who made things and farmed. Sounds a lot like the same struggle we have today; the Globalists and Tea Party on the side of importers and the kings religion, and everybody else getting the shaft wanting to take control of the economy so it doesn't just benefit a few. History repeats -- because the old scams still work.

reply to post by IPEEINTHESHOWER



reply to post by Blaine91555


You do realise that LeBomb is French and without his nations involvement in that little spat you probably would never have gained your independence at that time?

I don't find it surprising that the US came up with such plans - surely it is the duty of a government to be proactive and to prepare for every eventuality to protect it's own sovereignty and it's people.
I do however suspect it's reasoning in this instance - quite a petty reason to prepare for war - but who can second guess the reasoning of politicians and Generals?

Fast forward to today and I think it's reasonable to call the USA fair weather friends of the UK.
It does seem to be very one sided.
Whilst there may be some genuine affection and a sense of affiliation between the peoples I have absolutely no trust or respect for the politicians of either of our nations.

ETA.
All this talk of The American War Of Independance is interesting but rather off topic.
It really does deserve a thread of it's own - I for one have quite a bit I would be willing to contribute - I just have no desire to derail this excellent thread.

reply to post by theChronic
the fact is America is England's ally... we've been back to save arses from Hitler and we've a shield protecting them from Russian and others missiles.

I am only disgusted myself with England's liberal philosophy which has allowed segregation in their multiculturalism... this is their own undoing.

Canada I view as sons and daughters of draft dodgers and acid heads

Originally posted by IPEEINTHESHOWER
reply to post by LeBombDiggity

 

HAHAHA, sounds like someone is mad that the UK used to rule the world and now sadly they are nothing more than a sinking Island. Maybe you're mad that the USA kicked your countries arse in Revolutionary war or is it we have military bases on your sinking Island right now and you don't have jack S&%# on our land. If the USA never got involved in WW2 Britain could not have defeated the combined Germany and Italy in Western Europe and Mediterranean/North Africa area. Germany and Italy would have defeated Britain.

Maybe you should be thanking us Yanks for saving your sinking Island instead of wishing it ill will.

This September will mark the 229th anniversary of the end of the American Revolutionary War. I guess some wounds never heal. This weekend, the Britain's National Army Museum voted George Washington the greatest military enemy ever to face Britain.

Historian Stephen Brumwelll said it best "the American Revolutionary War was the worst defeat for the British Empire ever,"

Every time you sip some earl grey you should be thankful that the USA will protect your sinking island.

edit on 16-4-2012 by IPEEINTHESHOWER because: (no reason given)

Hmm sure your already taking a fragging for this... Just figured I would try and set you straight. Obviously your an American and so am I brother. This thread is talking about the hidden war games the USA drew up in the off chance the British decided to try and take America again. This is from the 30's. You act like the UK is an enemy. From what I can tell they dropped the whole American revolution thing ages ago. Did you read what the OP said? This isn't propaganda, but your spouting garbage. I don't get it. Sit there shut up and listen to the OP's history lesson. You might learn something.

Ok in regards to the thread. Great job OP, never heard about this before thanks for the lesson on some little known American history. Knowledge is power, ignorance is bliss...

reply to post by BIHOTZ

Canada them bastids! I will never forget the burning of Washington DC.

they are sure to drill it into us in public school too.

Canada is very much like the state of California, the rest of the Nation rebuke them from the union!

they're just treasonous souls... never trust a Canadian or a Californian

Originally posted by Rising Against
Ah, ok, well thanks.

All I know is I'm here to learn so leaving out information because it may go against something I believe, well, that would be kind of pointless really, wouldn't it? I was aware of that previous Canadian plan but as far as I was aware, and of course I could be mistaken here which I'm open to, it was mainly the work of one person and was not something taken too seriously in the grand scheme of thing's. If that's wrong then please do point it out. Like I said, I'm here to learn and I find history, whether it's my own, America's or Canada's, fascinating.

I'm right there with you. I was actually impressed by how thorough your opening post was, especially since you really have to do some digging on War Plan Red outside of the rather barren Wikipedia page. That's why the lack of the UK and Canadian plans stuck out to me, I guess.

Yes, the Canadian plan for invasion of the US was more limited than the plan being made by the Americans. I think a contributing factor to this, though, was the fact that these plans were written when Canadian armed forces were sort of in limbo. This was between the point where Britain had withdrawn all its armed forces from Canada (1906), but before Canada established a permanent military structure (1923) for itself. Basically, it's difficult to say whether the limited nature of the plan was due to disinterest or the fact that it merely got lost in the transition. Perhaps someone with more knowledge on the history of the Canadian armed forces at that time can shed a bit more light.

All I can say for sure is that a video game based on a US/UK/Canada war in the 1930's would be awesome...

the invasion of canada shouldn't take more than 100 weekend warriors with pellet guns.

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by Echo3Foxtrot

 

Ah, I got the feling someone would post something like that. But nope, that's completely 100% wrong. I'm not taking a jab at anyone. I came across what I found to be an interesting story and I shared it. Simple as that.

If you think I'm Anti-American, then I suggest you take the time to actually read my past posts and get to know me a little bit better. I say that because nothing could be further from the truth.

Pointing out every little thing that potentially makes America look like an evil monster in this world is getting lame.

Well, read my past posts, I obviously haven't done this.

edit on 16-4-2012 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)

Well I'm an American and I take no offense. Merely discussing plans and history is not a reason to get upset if you don't like the answer...

.... But I'm going to be a bit LESS Generous and say that since 9/11, I've been learning more and more about the past of this country -- and it appears that only due to a FLUKE, after FDR took office, and until Reagan took over -- the USA was an awesome and laudable country for maybe 40 years. After that, we sent death squads and supported murder on labor organizers in Central America. WE backed Pinochet for the benefit of the telephone companies desire for cheap copper (and probably other reasons). We've undermined almost every fledgling Democracy on the planet, and we make and break alliances based ONLY on strategy and money.

I just learned that we helped move some critic of Kaddaffi's to one of our hired torture camps. That was a few years before we suddenly didn't like Kaddaffi anymore and sent financial aide to dissidents in his country. We also send money and weapons to terrorists in Iran (and yes, that's what they do).

In the Iraq war, we switched sides. The faction that was helping us, then got hunted by us because the other side was winning. Did any Americans even notice? Especially the ones who talked all day about honor and justice and what we were doing for Iraq -- they couldn't even be bothered to know the difference between Suni and Shia or that these were Persians.

MOST of the good things this country has done -- was forced upon the leaders and the power barons by people of conscience. If the little people didn't make a fuss -- we would have been just as back-stabbing as any Machiavelli family.

WE had about 40 good years after the American Revolution, and 40 good years after FDR -- the rest has been massacres of Indians, land grabs, and doing everything that benefits a few.


>> Another "Plan" the Join Chiefs worked up was to take over a commercial airliner with a remote control device, and fly it into a tall building, to make the public believe we were under attack. The plan was shot down by JFK -- but even today, people think such a thing is implausible.

There are contingency plans and then there are plans -- the difference is when the Joint Chiefs bring the plan to the President and those are the ones we need to pay attention to.

Originally posted by shake101
The US and Great Britain have a history so deep you cannot ever fathom. You will never see a war between the US and the UK. These two lovers along with Israel are the ultimate trio of power. They will always side with each other.

You say that, but in the lead up to the second world war, the vast majority of US support was for Germany. It took alot of persausion, subterfuge and back scratching, not to mention the lend for lease, to get the US on Britain's side. Many US businesses had already invested heavily in Nazi Germany assuming that British capitulation was a forgone conclusion. Ford had built a factory in 1929, Standard Oil had given exclusive patents to Germany for technology that they developed, and the US board of IG Farben was made up on some of the most powerful industrialists in the US. In fact, had it not been for US investment, the Nazis would not have been war-ready for another couple of decades, at least. You have to also take into consideration that a huge number of Germans had emigrated to the US following the economic collapse after the end of the first war, so there was popular support too. Taken into context with 'War Plan Red', it can be assumed that rather doing the job themselves, elements in the US were backing Germany to do the job for them.

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle
The military has war games for just about every situation imaginable - probably even have plans for an Alien Invasion.

Just because they have plans and ideas, does not mean they will follow through with them.

Britain, and Canada are some of the U.S.'s closest friends - we need them, and they need us. You will never see a war between these countries unless someone comes into power who tries to wipe us out, invade us, or damage us.

There is no money in it, nor security in it.

edit on 16-4-2012 by MentorsRiddle because: (no reason given)

The US military probably has scenarios for an internal civilian uprising and a civil war with breakaway states, as well.

Originally posted by babybunnies

Originally posted by MentorsRiddle
The military has war games for just about every situation imaginable - probably even have plans for an Alien Invasion.

Just because they have plans and ideas, does not mean they will follow through with them.

Britain, and Canada are some of the U.S.'s closest friends - we need them, and they need us. You will never see a war between these countries unless someone comes into power who tries to wipe us out, invade us, or damage us.

There is no money in it, nor security in it.

edit on 16-4-2012 by MentorsRiddle because: (no reason given)

The US military probably has scenarios for an internal civilian uprising and a civil war with breakaway states, as well.

acting on them though is another story.
could only control pockets within the nation if it began to break apart.
variables would be popping up all over the place with some groups destroying electrical utilities and others looting, establishing strongholds/forts etc...

those brown eyes didn't turn blue... they turned a fiery blood red!

the Sun has set on the empire.

...Boom Boom Tis

The OP was interesting and a good read. It was especially interesting to see how GB flexed their muscle in 1927 to get what they wanted and how the US responded. Little did they know that Japan would turn out to be the big problem. The HMS Hood showed that the cruisers they were arguing about couldn't cut it anyway and the Swordfish with determined pilots showed that even super battleships were susceptible to aircraft. FDR was correct and bet on the right people. In retrospect, he could have done nothing else. Hitler wanted GB on his side, too.
It is true that all countries that can project force have war plans and invasion plans for mostly any other country. This is a common exercise for any classes at the war colleges of those countries so it is not surprising that they exist. Our northern neighbors do not have to fear a military invasion based on Plan Red as we have long since dispensed with horse cavalry.

This thread has turned out to be quite polarizing due to a few chest pounders and trolls. I would pay them no mind. That said, the special realtionship still exists between the US and GB, including Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Now if we could just relax a bit in Vermont ........
www.canadiangeographic.ca...

reply to post by IPEEINTHESHOWER


"You yanks" couldnt have done it without the Russians either.

The end of WW2 was a combined allied effort and im getting sick and tired of this "USA Saved the world back then" attitude.

reply to post by godofme


Crushed in months eh? What history books have you been reading fella? Listen, your country not only lost to us "apes" as you put it but we were outnumbered by 3 to 1 not to mention poorly trained and had less arms power as well as financial resources at their disposition.

I like how you bring in Vietnam to a discussion that it has nothing to do with it. You fail on so many levels. I do want to thank you for the LOL's though.

Best advice I could give you fella,take a break from the conspiracy stuff and learn your own countries history.

Last but not least, consider this, keyboard warriors. I view these posts whilst listening to the sands of time.

reply to post by Rising Against


It's really not surprising considering the British / American history. This would have been just over 100 years after they raised DC. And indeed they did invade amphibiously and over land through Canada. Then after the war of 1812 it was well known that both Britain and France watched the US Civil War unfold and made plans to "retake the colonies". Some instances like the Trent Affair caused the public to back war with the Union, but the sheer violence of the war, the deadliest in Human history at the time, caused Britain to remain neutral.

There was also a plan in 1866 by an Irish American terrorist organization called "Irish Republican Brotherhood" or IRB, also called The Fenians, to invade and conquer Canada for it's own purposes. They had 20,000 veteran soldiers stationed along the US Canadian border, and had over 330,000 veteran backers from the US and Canadian armies.. And any self respecting Irish American would know General Thomas Francis Meagher, founder of the famous Irish Brigade.. this well known American General was one of the organizers.

Meagher actually met with President Andrew Jackson who said that while the USA may not militarily support them, they will recognize all gains. Meagher's plan was to use US Veterans to land an army of some 150,000 soldiers on the west coast of Ireland and attack British military outposts. Other leaders wanted to take Canada and hold it ransom.

The new Irish Army would have invaded Canada from Main in 1866 when General Meade took possession of their military equipment preventing an attack.

And again on May 31st 1866 an Army of 16,800 Irish soldiers massed in Buffalo New York to invade Lower Canada. Generals Grant and Mead both intercepted the leaders of the assault and closed the borders.

After 2,000 soldiers managed to cross the border and assault a few towns before being driven back. After a final defeat in May 1870 when they attacked Canada from Vermont, they moved operations to Ireland and became the IRA.
www.bivouacbooks.com...
en.wikipedia.org...

Which it's well known that US Citizens, and likely the government, funded the IRA to cause problems for the British..

I think it's pretty clear that historically .... we were never friends. And even today it's not really "friends" as much as.. business partners.

Originally posted by Speakeasy1981

Originally posted by Rising Against
So it seems, if anything, it was a plan to counter a potential attack from America. Hardly the same as what America planned really..

Sure, but it was written before the US plan, so chronologically, Canada planned an attack on the US before the US planned an attack on Canada. And remember, the US plan itself was potentially a counter attack against the UK, so they are quite similar. Canada planning a counter attack on the US, then the US planning a counter attack on the UK, then the UK not really giving a crap enough to plan anything.

So attacking your neigbor so it can act as a staging ground for your ultimate target is the same as a contingency plan for when attacked yourself? (in the case of Canada)

No way.

Originally posted by Biliverdin
It took alot of persausion, subterfuge and back scratching, not to mention the lend for lease, to get the US on Britain's side.

Yes indeed. For example, we handed the Americans an absolutely genuine, legitimate and certainly not forged German map of South America as the Nazis planned to reorganise it. This would have threatened the US and so we duly forewarned them. Bloody good of us eh? Roosevelt actually referred to it in an address in Oct '41 - Great success!