both OCCUPY and TEA PARTY can sense somethings wrong with the direction of the US

Originally posted by XPLodER






STOP LOOKING AT THE DIFFERENCES AND START LOOKING AT WHAT IS AT STAKE.

xploder

I think we can all see what is at stake but the acrimony, distrust, envy, and "blame the other guy" attitudes have trumped national unity and patriotism. Know when to holdem, know when to foldem, know when to walk away and know when to run...

When I see members of the ATS community come together under and with a common goal; I can see some hope...

I applaud your efforts xploder!

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by beezzer

 

Skype then.

Works for me!

I'm not afraid of voicing my concerns. I've had many a battle here on the ideological course that nOccupy has been taking.

Would love to "sit" with them and chat.

we need to think a little larger than just the three of us,
occupy together telephone conference network

this is the comunications network for occupy world wide,
i suggest we orginize a solidarity forum to arrange a group discussion.

skype is good too but we can inter face with a very large group of occupiers and acomidate a larger number of tea partyers

what do you think?

there is no harm in talking and discussing points of interest with each other

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER
Before we get comfortable, some key issues.

The Tea Party group I belong to espouses smaller government, personal responsibility, individualism.

Do you or would any of your group have an issue with that?

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by XPLodER

 

Before we get comfortable, some key issues.

The Tea Party group I belong to espouses smaller government, personal responsibility, individualism.

Do you or would any of your group have an issue with that?

this is NOT an endorcement of ron paul, mearly a point of agreement,

yes some would, but many would also agree,
the idea is not to be inflexable with others view points,
as a side point many would support candidates like ron paul,

his main attractions for me are limited govenment,
limited taxes,
following the constitution
and
individual liberty

this is my personal opinion and does not speak for occupy or any one other than my OWN personal opinion.


as i say there is common ground, its just how to achive the aims that differ.

the only conflict is indivdualism, we are all individuals but must interacte in a common society, for the better or worse everyone is "in this togther"

the opinion that OWS wants free stuff is not acurite, while some do the vast majority just want the ability to work for a fair wage to afford to raise their kids

and not to have to continue to pay for the mistakes of the big banks.

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER
Another point I have.

(did I just sound like Yoda?)

Politicians. Bankers can't get their breaks without them. Getting rid of corrupt bankers just leads to anyone else feeding the corrupt poliicians.

I'm bi-partisan when it comes to slimy politicians.

Say you what?

(more Yoda)

reply to post by XPLodER

yes but it requires the tea party candidates and the tea party members to join with OWS on a few specific issiues.

What would that be, I'd like to know, because I've read the demands of Occupy and they read like the Democrat Party Platform and more nanny statism which is directly the opposite of the Free Market personal responsibility ideals of the Tea Party.
I cannot back anything which tries to replace the ideals of the Republic with the ideology of Democratic socialism.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
Lets not poison the well before we've had a chance to drink.

You know as well as I the issues that Occupy carries.

Actually talking with them though, may clear up misconceptons, or solidify them.

reply to post by beezzer


it is clear that politicians are a major problem,
but reasurching how to expose govenment malfesence, it became obvious that the politicians have "special standing" to consider, for a world wide movement, if any "damage" or "harm" was to come to the govenment of the united states directly or indirectly from the movement, it could be classifyed as tratorious.
in this sence we cant as a worldwide movement make political entities a target for demonstrations and or exposures of wrong doing. this would be a dangerous thing to do,

whereas the tea party has the "standing" within govenment to expose corruption without "damage" or injury" as they are on a level standing with those that are "the problem"

simply put its not that we dont want to expose corruption in the govenment and political arena
its that as a movement we simply cannot critacize or expose them.

THE TEA PARTY CAN THO

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


I'm not sure how to set that up, you seem to have a handle on it...can you set up an Occupy/TPM conference?

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


those labels are not helping,
they are a way of deviding people into ever smaller groups,

this discussion is about common ground not political ideaologies.
i realise the difficulty in seperating the two

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER
then maybe the Occupy folks should join the Tea Party.

Hence the "summit".

I'm still interested in talking.

At the very least, better to know thyne enemy.

At most, a collaboration of a common goal.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by XPLodER

 

I'm not sure how to set that up, you seem to have a handle on it...can you set up an Occupy/TPM conference?

yes i can but i think we should also lay the ground work for the points of where we CAN agree,
otherwise it may sink into partisanship on both sides,

i will set up an account and set up a group, what part of the world would suit everyone?
america?

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER
Sounds good to me.
Just remember I'm 6-7-8 hours ahead.
(

reply to post by XPLodER


I think name calling and trolling should be a 3 strikes you're out kind of thing. I mean we all get mad (oh so guilty here lol). I also think we should be careful with ideological labels.

Bed time! Post, U2U me, whatever.

I'm willing to talk.

its going to take some time to set up the summit,
i also need to get a read of the t&cs for the service

i will be in touch

xploder

"The greatest democracy the world has ever known?"

Don't make me laugh.

USA is one of the most corrupt societies on the planet at the current moment, at all levels of Government. It's laughingly called "Lobbying".

Corporations and special interest groups have bribery taken to such a massive scale that their bribery agents "lobbyists" now even have office space assigned to them on Capitol Hill, and are pround to advertise their services around Washington and around America.

Corporations can now provide unlimited funding for Super PACs for any politician that they please, effectively making sure that the politician is bought and paid for before they're even elected.

The people of the United States have become so dependant on Government handouts that if the Government were wiped out, a large portion of the United States population would probably go right along with it in a matter of days. This is why citizens don't unite against the Government - most people know the old adage "don't bite off the hand that feeds you".

Greatest Democracy on Earth? I'd cry if I wasn't laughing so hard.

clarifycation,

"damage" or "harm"

is in reference to to standing or reputation only and ment in a legal framework to explain constraints of action.

xploder

Originally posted by XPLodER

Originally posted by jjkenobi
They are complete opposites.

T.E.A. (taxed enough already): Citizens are tired of being taxed to pay for govt giveaways.

do you agree that INCLUDES BANK BAILOUTS?

Occupy: We aren't getting enough free stuff from the govt

no its that the banks have been given ALL THE CAPITAL and the citizens have been given ALL the BILLS.

The demonstrations from each respective group couldn't be more different. Citizens protesting at govt centers with no police incidents = TEA party. Citizens camping in a city park for weeks destroying businesses property and using the streets as urinals = OCCUPY.

the straight answer is both groups are simply doing what they know to do,
if we did it together we would be able to show unity and the politicians would have to take notice.

i know for a fact that if it was anyone else other than the govenment harming americans you all would be united in wanting justice.

it is the politiks deviding you not your love for your nation.

your view of occupy is not what is important,
occupy and tea party are both two sides of the same coin,

STOP LOOKING AT THE DIFFERENCES AND START LOOKING AT WHAT IS AT STAKE.

xploder

I can see your point of view. I still don't believe protesting the banks makes any sense. The GOVERNMENT gave them the money. Protest the government. If you don't like the Lottery are you going to go protest in the front lawn of the person who just won the Lottery? Or are you going to protest at the Lottery HQ? If the govt called me and said hey we are going to deposit 5 million stimulus dollars into your account.... would you protest me? What did I do? I can't stop them from giving more money out. Go after the source!!

reply to post by jjkenobi

I can see your point of view. I still don't believe protesting the banks makes any sense. The GOVERNMENT gave them the money. Protest the government. If you don't like the Lottery are you going to go protest in the front lawn of the person who just won the Lottery? Or are you going to protest at the Lottery HQ? If the govt called me and said hey we are going to deposit 5 million stimulus dollars into your account.... would you protest me? What did I do? I can't stop them from giving more money out. Go after the source!!

while Occupy as a movement CANNOT ask for protests against govenments or politicians in ANY country,
local groups WITHIN the countries can decide on their own to protest against THEIR own govenments and elected officials.

OCCUPY DC stated by americans CAN non violently and legally protest DC
OCCUPY WASHINGTON started by americans CAN non violently and legally protest WASHINGTON
OCCUPY DC NOW started by americans CAN non violently and legally protest DC NOW



if their is a specific govenment and or politician who deserves non violent LEGAL PROTEST
ONLY a group within THAT country can start a protest.

OCCUPY as a movement is NON POLITICAL
but SUB GROUPS CAN call for nation specific protests,

xploder