Russia's military ability to wage war

Does Russia have an ability to wage the smallest os possible armed conflicts?

For example, let's say they went to war with Ukraine. How would this look?

We're looking at you, Russian, if you're on.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
Does Russia have an ability to wage the smallest os possible armed conflicts?

For example, let's say they went to war with Ukraine. How would this look?

We're looking at you, Russian, if you're on.

yes welll not a big one.
well its wouldnt look gd. ukrane has russian tech.
so it would be a russia vs russia style war.

Russia would steamroll the Ukraine. Russia's bad logistics, command, and corruption doesn't change the fact that it has a massive army with #loads of firepower.

But wouldn't C4I be #? Considering the organization of the forces is shat to hell, won't they be missing vital C4I?

russia went to war with georgia, russia is in war with chechnya also...
so i guess, yes, they can handle armed conflict... but not for long.

Originally posted by titus
russia went to war with georgia, russia is in war with chechnya also...
so i guess, yes, they can handle armed conflict... but not for long.

Okay, what advantages, if any, does the Russian Federation have over the states of the C.I.S. in armed conflict?

From a historical perspective the Russians are always slow off on the ball when it comes to military conflicts. It is likely a potential enemy would be able to fight against Russia with success for some time. But this seems not to weaken the Russians but only strengthens them. Over time the Russians would get the advantage and win.

The Russians can't be defeated with a conventional army. It's too damn large and the Russians have too many people and too much industrial capacity for any other nation to be able to win against it in a conventional war. Russia may lose the battles, hell it might even lose the entire conflict but Russia will still remain. Russia can only be defeated if it is fighting an offensive conflict. In a defensive conflict Russia can't be defeated by anyone.

A lot of the Russian defence industry is located near the Urals, on the Eastern and Western sides. This gives the Russians a large advantage as there facilities are deep within their territory and would be hard to strike.

Russia has so many advantages over the CIS nations. It still retains the vast majority of the Soviet Military-Industrial complex, has the largest land mass, the most weapons, the largest population and the industry to be able to outproduce any of those nations.

A CIS nation could only win against Russia for so long in the end it would win.

thanks,
drfunk

Very well said. Russia is very big to defeat. Their strategic facilities are deep in the country. The result on those whole conflits are based in interest of main Russian government on that conflict. Whether they have saved some money to continue war or are 'taking a break' and their local forces are allmost idle.

I agree with drfunk no convential battle could ever win the Russian motherland. A army might be able to win ground in battles but they wouldnt hold it for long. The land mass, amount of people and General Winter would make it a nightmare for any army.

I think people should never under estimate Russia's ablity to project force though. They are still developing impressive technology on a limited budget. I cant even imagine what they could make if they had a budget like the US military.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
I think people should never under estimate Russia's ablity to project force though. They are still developing impressive technology on a limited budget. I cant even imagine what they could make if they had a budget like the US military.

take all what they have now, and multiply that by 6. since us military budget is 6 times bigger...

interesting to note, russia has almost no money, but still manages to compete with us in technology, missiles, tanks... etc. especially in anti-ship business.

Well Russia still has an incredible war machine. A lot of it is stuff from the cold war that is still competive. If Russia went to war with Ukraine its obvious they would crush Ukraine within probably the first month. Ukraine would probably be like Iraq. The difference is that Spetsnaz is a bit more all out than US special forces. I'm pretty sure that Russia could probably effectivly fight anybody in the world. In the case of the US or China it would be either nuclear or a stalemate. Russia isn't exactly a third world nation people. And it seems that Russia may soon revive its aviation programs to their full glory within a matter of say 10 or 20 years. Against the other former Soviet states just consider this, who has enough nuclear weapons to vaporize nearly every major city in the world?

u got to remember russia is a pretty poor country because the soviet union and the ussr waisted all money on weapons, even if half of them dont work your still talking about alot of weapons, russia is supposed to be the second most powerful country next to us, so Ukraine wouldnt stand even the slightest chances unless they get help from another country

Originally posted by drfunk
The Russians can't be defeated with a conventional army. It's too damn large and the Russians have too many people and too much industrial capacity for any other nation to be able to win against it in a conventional war.

I don't want to start an argument but I think someone has very short term memory. Russia in WW2 was nearly taken out. Look back to the battle of Stalingrad. Russia was nearly taken out but Germany (hitler mainly) made the strategically mistake of fighting on too many fronts & spreading him self too thin. If you look at military deaths (not counting the civilian) Russia out weighed the world significantly at 13.6 million human military loses. The second contender is Germany @ 3.2 million.

Don't believe me check it for your self. www.rationalrevolution.net...

[edit on 5-10-2004 by oconnection]

in the second world war the russian threw millions of soldiers at the german defence lines and most of them were shot,they hadn't all got weapons either.

plus you are talking about population,

Russian Population:
143,782,338 (July 2004 est.)

USA Population:
293,027,571 (July 2004 est.)

USA is two times russia

Originally posted by drfunk

The Russians can't be defeated with a conventional army. It's too damn large and the Russians have too many people and too much industrial capacity for any other nation to be able to win against it in a conventional war. Russia may lose the battles, hell it might even lose the entire conflict but Russia will still remain. Russia can only be defeated if it is fighting an offensive conflict. In a defensive conflict Russia can't be defeated by anyone.

I guarantee you that if China wanted to move north into Asiatic Russia there would be bugger all the Russians could do except to use nuclear weapons.
I've got to laugh at all these poeple saying Russia is invincible sighting WW2 as the reason why. Things have changed completely since then ie. as someone said their strategic facilities are deep inside the country - however as has been shown conventional weapons can reach anywhere with pinpoint accuracy.

no offence but you guys have absolutely no reality of what it takes logistics wise to fight in Russia or even the conditions it has there. Germany wasn't going to win against Russia in WWII, their heavy industry was packed up in the urals and the russian leadership was ready to move as well. The Germans had so much trouble even getting stuff to the front line in Russia it is a testament to the germans that they were able to fight so well with what they had. The Germans had to make curdoroy roads to be able to move supplies to the front. Supply lines were thousands of miles long.

If you want proof read "Military Improvisation during the Russian campaign 1941-45" written by the Center of Military History for the US Army. This is what military strategists all around the world have read about Russia and once you read it you'll have no doubt fighting a conventional war in Russia is impossible.

China wouldn't be able to win against Russia and the USA would not either fighting on Russian soil. it's an impossible task trust me.

You may think its possible today but really you are just arrogant because of advances in military technology.

Read that entire book then come back and argue this.

thanks,
drfunk





[edit on 5-10-2004 by drfunk]

here is just one example of what its like to fight in Russia and what the Germans had to go through.

The Colduroy Road

"War could never have been waged in the vast swamp regions of Russia had they not been made accessible by improvised corduroy roads. These were the most important static improvisation of the entire Russian campaign and many operations in swampy forests and in the mud of northern and central Russia were feasible only because of the construction of such roads. The first corduroy road was built soon after the Germans crossed into European Russia; the last one during the westward retreat across the German border. In the intervening period hundreds of miles of corduroy road had to be built or repaired during the muddy seasons in order to move up supplies and heavy equipment. At the beginning of the war it was often sufficient to construct a cordurory road 25 to 100 yards long to get hundreds of bogged�down vehicles back on the move.

During the thrust on Leningrad in mid-July 1941 an entire panzer corps bogged down in the swampy forests, separating the corps from the Luga River. For several days the corps was unable to assist its hardpressed advanced elements which were surrounded in a bridgehead on the other side of the river. Only corduroy roads built with considerable effort could restore the former mobility of the corps. In another instance, in 1942,

Eleventh Army had to abandon a planned offensive in the direction of the Neva River because corduroy roads could not be built in time.

The swamps along the Volkhov River were impassable because there were no usable roads. The construction of corduroy roads was the only means of overcoming such terrain difficulties. Since Russia lacks rock and gravel but has an abundance of timber in the central and northern parts, the construction of concrete or paved roads was impossible and corduroy roads became the only feasible substitute.

In constructing these roads it was important to select logs about ten inches in diameter and place them in several layers. As in the superstructure of a bridge, stringers, double layers of crossed logs, and siderail lashings had to be used. The guard rails had to be wired because nails could not be used. The cross logs had to be topped with a layer of sand-not dirt-or, when no sand was available, with cinders or rubble. Time and personnel permitting, the top layer of logs was to be levelled off. Only such thoroughly constructed corduroy roads could stand the strain of constant traffic.

The crossing of the many small swamps found along almost any Russian road caused many special difficulties. It was at these points that the supply convoys got stuck when the heavy trucks of the motor transportation regiments sank in. As a result, serious traffic disruptions lasting many hours and sometimes even several days occurred quite frequently. Over and over again the convoy commanders made the same mistake of failing to wait until the roadbed was repaired by the construction of corduroy roads. Instead, they believed that they could force their way through. The flat swampy stretches, which could have been repaired within a relatively short time before they were completely torn up, were soon in such a condition that their restoration became extremely difficult. The road had to be closed to all traffic since it had become impassable and the swampy stretches obstructed the flow of traffic. Frequently repair work could not be undertaken in time because the road construction engineers had no motor transportation and therefore arrived too late at crucial points. In general, the construction of a corduroy road proved sufficient to bridge small swamps. But whenever swamps were too deep a regular bridge had to be built across them.

Corduroy roads had a detrimental effect on the speed of movements since they slowed down traffic. The average march performance of foot troops dropped to two miles an hour whereas motor vehicles could cover about five miles an hour. Traveling along a corduroy road on foot or by motor was very strenous, and equipment, especially sensitive instruments, suffered from incessant concussions. These roads complicated and slowed urgent movements of reserves in critical situations.

In the Leningrad area there was not a single serviceable hard�surface road leading east toward the German front. In this sector the local army commander was wholly dependent upon two long corduroy roads that covered a total distance of eighty miles. Since they were the only arteries for troop movements and supply traffic, they were used by day and night and their maintenance therefore presented many problems.

In the vicinity of Leningrad two types of construction were commonly used: the heavy corduroy road built over a foundation of five log stringers and the light one which was placed directly on the ground. The two layers of cross logs forming the road�way consisted of logs about five inches in diameter that were secured on both ends by guard rails which in turn were anchored to the ground by drift pins and wire loops. The road was just wide enough for one truck because longer logs could not be procured. Turnouts were built at 1000-yard intervals. Special traffic-regulating detachments directed all movements along these roads."

IMO, Russia is doing what it has done so well for so long-playing possum. I think their military men and machines are not in nearly as bad shape as we are lead to believe.

Why would u say that?

I will tell u, during the cold war, there was a Russian sub base with many large class missile and sub killer subs, we monitored it with satellites. Well, it seems after a particularly nasty story came by, all the subs seemed to be broken up everywhere-huh? Upon further looking, it was determined that they were nothing more than wooden mock-ups!

Why would Russia do that? It was to make the US think they had more assets then they really had, with the hope of financially breaking the US trying to keep up with them.

I think Russia wants the rest of the world to think they are weak and toothless old lions. HUH?-Why?

During war, or any military activity, the element of surprise can allow as smaller, inferior military to obtain a devastating victory over a larger-more/over confident military. It can also make the larger military not worry about them and thin its ranks or divide its ranks around many different areas.

Originally posted by drfunk

If you want proof read "Military Improvisation during the Russian campaign 1941-45" written by the Center of Military History for the US Army. This is what military strategists all around the world have read about Russia and once you read it you'll have no doubt fighting a conventional war in Russia is impossible.

China wouldn't be able to win against Russia and the USA would not either fighting on Russian soil. it's an impossible task trust me.

[edit on 5-10-2004 by drfunk]

Trust you why because you've read a book No offence but I've read hundreds of books on the Eastern Front and have been to the Moscow, St Petersburg, Volgagrad and the Don bend. The Russians could have easily lost WW2, just look at the lend lease aid which was provided byt the US. They shipped among other things 400 000 trucks which made the Russian army mobile, something they could have never achieved themselves.

Oh, yeah and how is Russai going to defend Siberia agianst the Chinese ? There are only about 7-8 million people living there let alone military units. The Russian Army is still poorly trained and poorly equipped, just look at Chechnya.

Originally posted by titus

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
I think people should never under estimate Russia's ablity to project force though. They are still developing impressive technology on a limited budget. I cant even imagine what they could make if they had a budget like the US military.

take all what they have now, and multiply that by 6. since us military budget is 6 times bigger...

interesting to note, russia has almost no money, but still manages to compete with us in technology, missiles, tanks... etc. especially in anti-ship business.

Aaaaa the joys of slave labor