Bill Cosby Weighs In On Trayvon Martin Case (Gun Control)

reply to post by OldCorp


IMO its not the guns it is the mind set that is the problem. Of course if you could fix the latter, the first one would be a non-issue altogether, as no one would want a gun.

if gun control was ever to be implimented in the US it should have happened after collumbine , it certainly didnt happen then and it wont happen now !

I used to be against guns and was an advocate for gun control , only because of the number of gun related deaths in the world.
However I now realise that without the right to defend ourselves we would be worse of than slaves right now

I think if Crosby had said, If you carry a gun you are prepared to hurt or kill someone, rather than "want" he would be a lot more accurate.

I live in the UK, where we have very very strict gun controls, guns do get through of course, and some gangsters and idiots have them but on the whole the UK is fairly gun free. And I do prefer it this way. I hear the argument that its not guns that kill, it is people, and whilst that argument does have validity it is not the whole equation. Yes it is the person pulling the trigger that does the killing, however the gun makes it fr easier to kill and in many cases someone would not end up dead if the killer had no gun. It is much harder to get into a rage and beat someone to death than it is to pull a trigger.

If you want to debate gun control or lack thereof, you have to be at least honest in your debate. People carry weapons for one of two reasons, either aggression or fear, you carry either to harm or intimidate someone, or you fear being in a situation you cannot control and carry the weapon for defensive reasons. You can butter it up to say it is being prepared, but it still boils down to fear, fear that you cannot defend yourself against a real or imagined threat. The same is true of people who carry knives here in the UK.

The 2nd amendment was put in place because of the tyrannical laws put in place by the British colonial forces, that stripped the right of US citizens to defend themselves. I think your founding fathers would weep at how this amendment has turned out, kids gunned down in the streets, and the nut jobs running around. I mean serious why do people need to have assault rifles in their homes?

I am not against gun ownership totally, but you have to accept that gun ownership creates problems, citing that all the criminals have guns, whilst true, is only true because guns are so easy to access, and they are easy to access because so many guns are in circulation. If I was an American (And yes I know I am not, and therefore my opinions carry very limited weight) I would like to see changes in the law, Make it legal to have a gun in your home. If carrying a gun outside then it must be visible, no concealed weapons. make it illegal to carry in a public building. All weapons to be registered and make it incumbent on the owner of a gun who sells it on to pass on the details f who the gun was sold too.

America has long boasted it is the land of the brave and home of the free, from the outside it really does not look that way, the need to carry weapons shows people are afraid, and as for free, well I am fairly sure most American citizens realise they are far from free

Years ago I was given a permit to carry a concealed weapon (A pistol). I've never needed it to shoot anyone, but since I used to collect cash money on a regular basis, and had been robbed at gun point three times, the pistol I carry leveled the playing field. I was never robbed again.

Imagine being robbed at gun point..... You are looking down the barrel of a very intimidating gun, not knowing if they perpetrator is going to shoot you, or pistol whip you.

I got off easy. Not everyone does.

My pistol is in easy reach while I sleep. I live in the country, and while that is a lot safer than the city, a person might try and burglarize my home while I sleep. Think of all the instances of the homeowner or family member, without a gun, who was abused or even killed in their own home.

The only time anyone sees my gun is when they either try and do me wrong, or they are a gun collector and want to see my gun which is very unique. Still no one ever gets to handle it. You can look but no touch.

There are towns in the USA where every legal adult is required to carry. Guess what. Crime is virtually unheard of.

Yes I'm pro gun. I was trained as a youth in summer camp, and it is nice to know that the Christian summer camp that is about a mile from my rural home, also teaches gun safety and proper shooting techniques.

However I see no need for assault weapons. In fact I've never fired one, so I don't own one. What I don't object to is the ownership of such weapons. I presume that those who own them, know how to properly use them. They are costly to purchase and they use lots of costly ammo. I can only assume their owners are just as cautious about their ownership as I would be. Locked in a safe.

"It is better to prevent crimes than to punish them". -Cesare Beccaria, philosopher and politician (1738-1794)

The following link is a perfect example of a horrible crime that might never have happened if they young couple had at least one gun.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by bonnieprince

Cosby's son Ennis was murdered in 1997, robbed and shot by a man on the freeway as the younger Cosby was changing a flat tire. If Ennis had been armed, I wonder if he would still be alive today?

I never like this kind of argument. The whole idea of 'oh this person wouldn't be dead if they carried a weapon' or 'it stops people with weapons getting me'. I just wonder, how quickly do you draw your gun? If somebody came up to you while changing a tire, presumably from behind or something, how do you know they plan to pull a gun? you might not even see them before they have it out? What's going to happen when you go for your gun? They'll probably shoot you before you pull it out. Also would it be on you, or just in your car? I mean, I understand the benefits of having it if you saw somebody approaching your car at some lights late at night, and you put your hand on it, but in most situations I don't see how you'd have time to pull your gun.

Of course i'm not hugely educated on guns, I just want to understand how you could get your gun out quickly enough to get a criminal, who most likely already was planning on using his weapon, thus would have it ready.

Making assumptions about what I would or would not do based on circumstantial variables would be an endless exercise in futility. Besides, until that moment comes, I don't think anyone really knows if they have it in them to take a life (certainly not a moral person.) However let's roll with the tire-changing analogy for a moment and assume that I had no spare. Stupid me, I forgot to replace it the last time I used it. What now? I'm f'd, sitting on the side of the road.

So I think what it boils down to is, "Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."

Kind of like this:



If Suzanna had brought her gun, it's possible that 23 people would have lived instead of being slain by a mad man; certainly she could have protected her parents. Like I said, there is evil in the world; I stand between it and those I love.

Thank you for the well though-out post. Allow me to reply.

Originally posted by PrinceDreamer

If you want to debate gun control or lack thereof, you have to be at least honest in your debate. People carry weapons for one of two reasons, either aggression or fear, you carry either to harm or intimidate someone, or you fear being in a situation you cannot control and carry the weapon for defensive reasons. You can butter it up to say it is being prepared, but it still boils down to fear, fear that you cannot defend yourself against a real or imagined threat. The same is true of people who carry knives here in the UK.

Since I've never harmed a soul over the last 30 years I've carried a weapon I think we can safely say I'm not aggressive; nor do I fear any man. I don't know how much weight this carries with you, but I am a US Marine (not former, or ex... when I die, I'll be a decomposing Marine, but still a Marine) and there is a certain mentality that goes with that. I'm also a Christian. I believe when I die I'll go to Heaven, so I don't fear death in any way. If your argument fails with my circumstances, then it must also fail with others.

The 2nd amendment was put in place because of the tyrannical laws put in place by the British colonial forces, that stripped the right of US citizens to defend themselves. I think your founding fathers would weep at how this amendment has turned out, kids gunned down in the streets, and the nut jobs running around. I mean serious why do people need to have assault rifles in their homes?

I can guarantee you that the kids getting gunned down in the streets are being killed by illegal weapons wielded by unlicensed and untrained gun "owners" (probably stolen.) The 2nd Amendment can not be used as an excuse in the furtherance of a criminal act.

Why do people need assault weapons in their homes? For exactly the reason stated in the Bill of Rights; to provide a well-regulated militia. Militia (both then and now) are nothing more than ordinary citizens, farmers and tradesmen, willing to go the extra mile to help their community. God forbid they should ever be called upon to protect their community from a tyrannical government, but again: Better to have it and not need it... Also, ask the Swiss how having assault rifles in every home (most civilian "assault rifles" in the US are SEMI-automatic, they just look mean). They seem to be OK with it too.

Gun politics in Switzerland are unique in Europe. The personal weapon of militia is kept at home as part of the military obligations. Switzerland has one of the highest militia gun ownership rates in the world.

In some 2001 statistics, it is noted that there are about 420,000 assault rifles stored at private homes, mostly SIG SG 550 types. Additionally, there are some 320,000 semi-auto rifles and military pistols exempted from military service in private possession, all selective-fire weapons having been converted to semi-automatic operation only. In addition, there are several hundred thousand other semi-automatic small arms classified as carbines. The total number of firearms in private homes is estimated minimally at 1.2 million to 3 million.

Police statistics for the year 2006[ records 34 killings or attempted killings involving firearms, compared to 69 cases involving bladed weapons and 16 cases of unarmed assault. Cases of assault resulting in bodily harm numbered 89 (firearms) and 526 (bladed weapons).

Now THAT is a country that knows the meaning of responsible gun ownership. I admit that there are a lot of "cowboys" in the US, but when you consider the fact that there are upwards of 300 Million REGISTERED guns in the US I'd say we're doing OK too. I fully support the enforcement of existing gun laws and most restrictions, I just wish they'd be enforced.

I am not against gun ownership totally, but you have to accept that gun ownership creates problems, citing that all the criminals have guns, whilst true, is only true because guns are so easy to access, and they are easy to access because so many guns are in circulation. If I was an American (And yes I know I am not, and therefore my opinions carry very limited weight) I would like to see changes in the law, Make it legal to have a gun in your home. All weapons to be registered and make it incumbent on the owner of a gun who sells it on to pass on the details f who the gun was sold too.

Everything you just quoted, aside from the concealed issue, I agree with. It is also already the law in most places, so no need for any more of them. (Continued next post...)

If carrying a gun outside then it must be visible, no concealed weapons. make it illegal to carry in a public building.

It's already illegal to carry in a public building like a courthouse, bank, etc; but to require a weapon carried outside the home be carried openly doesn't work. There are some people who carry openly, and that is their right. I don't (I have a CCW) because I don't like drawing attention to myself. My weapon is a tool, not a conversation piece. If I need it, I will have it; I just don't think walking down the aisle of Walmart with a six-gun on your hip is the way to go.

a perfect utopian unicorn fantasy land no one has guns, we're all armed with glitter and rainbows

Outstanding. Thanks for the laugh today. That really really got me going!

reply to post by OldCorp


Hi Oldcorp, thanks for the reply

Since I've never harmed a soul over the last 30 years I've carried a weapon I think we can safely say I'm not aggressive; nor do I fear any man. I don't know how much weight this carries with you, but I am a US Marine (not former, or ex... when I die, I'll be a decomposing Marine, but still a Marine) and there is a certain mentality that goes with that. I'm also a Christian. I believe when I die I'll go to Heaven, so I don't fear death in any way. If your argument fails with my circumstances, then it must also fail with others.

No I don't presume you are aggressive in any way, nor do I think you fear people at all, it surely not what I meant. When I talk about fear, I don't mean the people carrying the weapons are cowards, some may be of course, but clearly not all. I don't mean you or any other is walking around afraid if not carrying a weapon. I mean in the sense we feel there may be a situation we could encounter, a situation we feel we could only defend ourself if we had a weapon, which is far more likely to happen in America say than here in the UK. In a state of preparedness, should we say, people carry weapons for self defence, but it is still fear based, even if we don't like to admit, lets face it if we thought we could handle every situation we encounter without a gun, we would be confident enough not to carry one, but people do,, Just in case. Fear is not always a bad thing, as an ex soldier myself I can honestly say a good dose of fear can keep you alive (providing you don't let the far control you of course)

Carrying a gun for protection, means you have fear to be without it.

I can guarantee you that the kids getting gunned down in the streets are being killed by illegal weapons wielded by unlicensed and untrained gun "owners" (probably stolen.) The 2nd Amendment can not be used as an excuse in the furtherance of a criminal act.

Agreed, but the availability of guns makes this more likely does it not? The criminal use of an item should not outlaw it, i agree there, there are people who drink and drive does not mean we should ban all cars. However I do believe stricter gun controls should be in place. Again it is not my place to dictate to your country, it is just my opinion.


As for Switzerland, it is a unique place really, I have been it is great, you should visit. They don't have an Army, this is why every citizen over the age of 18 becomes part of their Militia, rather than being a citizen initiative it is actually a governmental one. They all become part of a unit and sometimes train together but they just go out training then go home at night, there are no barracks etc. The only semi official unit they have is the Swiss Guard which guards the Vatican.

I can see your reasons for carry a gun concealed however it is just my preference that if someone near me is armed, I would like to know

One point I do totally disagree with you on, you call yourself a Christian and I have to disagree with that statement, I would say it is impossible for you to be a Christian and carry a weapon. I don't doubt you believe in God, or that you believe in Christ, and I have no doubt you are a good and decent man. But I would say to be a Christian you have to follow the ways of Christ and I ask you, would Christ have ever carried a gun? Or any weapon for that matter, When he was attacked did he fight his assailants? No, he did not and he stopped his disciples from doing so also. When the Romans threw Christians to the lions, it was because they would not fight, because the would just stand and pray in the gladiatorial ring, they were true Christians. I am not saying I am better, I am not a Christian either, I believe in god but I don't follow doctrine. I have my own moral compass. Just a point I thought I would raise, and not said to offend you

If everyone who went to a bank took a gun NOBODY would dare rob a bank.
If everyone who went to church took a gun NOBODY would dare teach lies.
If everyone who went to school took a gun NOBODY would dare bully kids.

When the leader of the army is afraid to stand among the troops because they're armed its clear, we've been lied to robbed and are getting bullied.


reply to post by PrinceDreamer
Christianity doesn't prohibit gun ownership or carrying them. And PROHIBITION always fails... prohibition of guns means that ONLY criminals have them... to rob your house, rape your wife, and destroy your dreams.

I like Mr Cosby as an actor and comedian, but that's as far as it goes. Why does the media interview celebrities on stuff like this? What makes his opinion more important than yours or mine? Because he is famous, he is well liked and they try to use that to influence us. They do this all the time. Why does it matter that a movie star endorses a political candidate? Because people like that star and will imitate what they do. This interview was nothing but an attempt to sway people.

reply to post by OldCorp


a gun is not the only way to feel empowered to approach someone....

reply to post by DAVID64

I like Mr Cosby as an actor and comedian, but that's as far as it goes.

He used to be an actor and comedian. As in pre- Ghost Dad. I do appreciate what he has said in the past regarding how parents need to take responsibility for their children and troubled youth are a reflection of the parents.

well, mr. cosby most likely lives in a gated community patrolled by armed guards and has people running errands for him.

he doesn't need a gun because he has paid people to do it for him.

what if you're not a multi-millionaire entertainer, are you supposed to have no way of defending yourself.

Wow, guns are everything they need to be. When actually thinking about it, the power that a gun has makes me so angry!

Greatest invention of all time in my opinion.

Originally posted by randomname
well, mr. cosby most likely lives in a gated community patrolled by armed guards and has people running errands for him.
he doesn't need a gun because he has paid people to do it for him.
what if you're not a multi-millionaire entertainer, are you supposed to have no way of defending yourself.

If not he's made it clear its safe to rob his house.

reply to post by PrinceDreamer


In response to your last paragraph, I'll offer this reply.

In particular, my Baptist upbringing says the following:

For Baptists, the Law of God establishes the basic right of self-defense. A person has a duty to defend himself or his family whenever they are attacked or their lives are endangered. Any weapon is permissible for use in self-defense. The Law of God does not say that the homeowner is guilty if he uses a sword, but innocent if he uses a club. The issue is not one of weapons, but the right and duty of self-defense. It is common for Baptist congregations to sponsor classes in self-defense, up to and including lethal self-defense.

To be clear, Christ only said "Those who live by the sword die by the sword." He never meant (I don't think) to preclude self defense. IMHO, he stopped Peter from cleaving the Romans in two because it would have interfered with His mission, which was of course to die on the cross. Further, anticipating a possible retort, "Turn the other cheek" was a reference to insults and slights, not grave bodily injury.

Originally posted by CRDDD

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
You know when the gun crazies are bashing Bill Fuc*ing Cosby, they really have nothing else to bitch about.

Don't you guys have something else to do or some Tea Party "rally" to go to at some mall?

G'day.

I rarely post here, and while I own a few firearms, I'd say I'm hardly a "gun crazy". You are calling everyone who takes issue with Cosby's statement a gun crazy. Do you realize how moronic and juvenile that is? It's like saying "This guy owns guns, he's such a poopy head!!!" Are you saying because Cosby is a well known celebrity people shouldn't be allowed to criticize him when he makes a statement many are going to disagree with?

And who said ANYTHING about the Tea Party? Why are you blindly labeling everyone? So many questions for you, but I'm sure they will all go unanswered like with most anti-freedom trolls.

I noticed this thread of yours. You express joy over the death of a dictator, but if it were up to people like you, the government would be making decisions for citizens and taking away their rights.

edit on 16-4-2012 by CRDDD because: (no reason given)

I don't think I titled every gun owner a "crazy" but since this is a personal attack, I'll reply for sh*ts and gigs.

Number one, don't call someone a troll because they disagree with your opinions. That is "juvenile."

Number two, yes I expressed joy over the death over a dictator who was responsible for the death of millions of civilians and responsible for sending thousands to die in concentration camps. But of course, because I don't like guns (oh golly) that MUST mean I support dictatorships, right?

Get over yourself, sweetie pie and grow up.

Originally posted by Aleister
reply to post by OldCorp

 

When you pulled your gun the one time, at the man about to beat his wife with a tire-iron (we've all been there), at what point were you prepared to pull the trigger? If he started to actually beat her, if he started to come at you with the tire iron, if he held on to it longer than you thought safe and gave you a "come and get me" look? It seems that situation could have gone in several directions, and someone with a hotter head than you may have ended up shooting the guy (and in their case, not in yours, may have ended up shooting a guy about to change his tire).

I teach self defense and abduction prevention to children... And this sounds like one of their set ups. Mr. Dan, what happens ikf somebody grabs you at WalpMart, and as you start to yell fire, and try kicking back or forward, depending on which way they are holding thou,and you see a can of potato chips with a blue fox carrying them... on and on... What do you do net?

Give it a rest. If you don't care for guns don't own one, if you do, then my apology.

Originally posted by Aleister
reply to post by OldCorp

 

When you pulled your gun the one time, at the man about to beat his wife with a tire-iron (we've all been there), at what point were you prepared to pull the trigger? If he started to actually beat her, if he started to come at you with the tire iron, if he held on to it longer than you thought safe and gave you a "come and get me" look? It seems that situation could have gone in several directions, and someone with a hotter head than you may have ended up shooting the guy (and in their case, not in yours, may have ended up shooting a guy about to change his tire).

I teach self defense and abduction prevention to children... And this sounds like one of their set ups. Mr. Dan, what happens ikf somebody grabs you at WalpMart, and as you start to yell fire, and try kicking back or forward, depending on which way they are holding thou,and you see a can of potato chips with a blue fox carrying them... on and on... What do you do net?

Give it a rest. If you don't care for guns don't own one, if you do, then my apology.