Hiroshima ....just an experiment on the already defeated?

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by MrInquisitive

 

An article in the Atlanta Constitution by David Snell . The test was successful but it used all of their uranium according to the article . The fact is that they would not have hesitated to use it on us as was evident as such a barbaric people . Had the sub not surrendered the U235 ore we would have been bombed . I'm sure that neither of us has the full truth of the matter . Japans intent was evident for sure . Ironically they have Nuked themselves and possibly the world . Their leaking power plant radiation will likely kill the Pacific fisheries .

David Snell's claims were thoroughly refuted decades ago...

Claims of a Japanese weapon test

In 1946 the Atlanta Constitution published a story by reporter David Snell, who had been an investigator with the 24th Criminal Investigation Detachment in Korea after the war, which alleged that the Japanese had successfully tested a nuclear weapon near Konan before being captured by the Russians.

He claimed that he had received his information from a Japanese officer who had been in charge of counter-intelligence at Konan.

Though no credence was placed in the story by SCAP officials, it was nonetheless thought necessary to get comments from Japanese scientists who would or should have known about such a project.

Bunsaku Arakatsu called the article "false and fantastic" as he was personally acquainted with the few people capable of such a project, and said that Japan's nuclear research had never progressed beyond the laboratory stage, nor had any thought been given to the construction of a pilot plant for the production of nuclear material. Further doubt is cast on Snell's story by the lack of evidence of large numbers of Japanese scientists leaving Japan for Korea and never returning.

Snell's claims were repeated by Robert K. Wilcox in his 1985 book Japan's Secret War: Japan's Race Against Time to Build Its Own Atomic Bomb. The book also included what Wilcox stated was new evidence from intelligence material which indicated the Japanese might have had an atomic program at Konan.

These specific claims were dismissed in a review of the book by Department of Energy employee Roger M. Anders which was published in the journal Military Affairs, an article written by two historians of science in the journal Isis and another article in the journal "Intelligence and National Security".

Japanese nuclear weapon program

This article challenges reports that Japan developed and tested an atomic bomb in North Korea just before the end of World War II in 1945.

The author provides a well documented argument that that event did not occur as reported in the Atlanta Constitution in 1946.

The existence of an atomic bomb program and a Japanese cover-up that was described in a 1978 issue of Science sparked renewed interest including a full length book, Japan’s Secret War and additional articles.

The author traces U.S. military investigations of the Japanese program, which concluded that no bomb was developed although there was a minimally funded research effort during the war.

He speculates that that the myth of a Japanese bomb helped to diminish America’s guilt about having used nuclear weapons.

Hungnam and the Japanese Atomic Bomb: Recent Historiography of a Postwar Myth

A little further reading....


Postwar Scientific Intelligence Missions to Japan


Here is the original source of the claim...

Japan Developed Atom Bomb;

Russia Grabbed Scientists

Copyright 1946 by the Atlanta Constitution and David Snell.


Actual Test Was Success

Japan developed and successfully tested an atomic bomb three days prior to the end of the war.

She destroyed unfinished atomic bombs, secret papers and her atomic bomb plans only hours before the advance units of the Russian Army moved into Konan, Korea, site of the project.

Japanese scientists who developed the bomb are now in Moscow, prisoners of the Russians. They were tortured by their captors seeking atomic "know-how."

The Konan area is under rigid Russian control. They permit no American to visit the area. Once, even after the war, an American B-29 Superfortress en route to Konan was shot down by four Russian Yak fighters from nearby Hammung Airfield.

I learned this information from a Japanese officer, who said he was in charge of counter intelligence at the Konan project before the fall of Japan. He gave names, dates, facts and figures on the Japanese atomic project, which I submitted to United States Army Intelligence in Seoul. The War Department is withholding much of the information. To protect the man that told me this story, and at the request of the Army, he is here given a pseudonym, Capt. Tsetusuo Wakabayashi...

1946 Atlanta Constitution Atom Bomb Articles


A short biography of the original author...

David Snell, author of the story of Japan's successful atomic bomb test, was a member of the Constitution's reportorial staff when he joined the Army in 1945.

Snell, a native of Minden, LA, was in charge of the Constitution's News Bureau at Marietta immediately before entering the Army, having served for a while on the city staff in Atlanta.

During his Army service, Snell filed a number of stories to the Constitution both while in training in the United States and after arriving with the occupation forces in Korea. One of his stories in Korea was an interview with Bishop Arthur J. Moore, of Atlanta, who visited China, Japan, and Korea representing the American's Bishops's Association to survey church conditions preparatory to the return of missionaries.

In Korea, Snell was assigned to the 24th Criminal Investigation Detachment checking on crimes against the Unites States. His discovery of the atom bomb story was not in his official line of duty and was not a part of his official assignment.

While with the Constitution, Snell lived at Marietta. His wife is the former Julia Williams of Augusta, Ark. Their one son, Barry, was born while they resided in Marietta.

David Snell (March 28, 1921–July 1987) was a reporter and cartoonist for the defunct Life Magazine and several other publications during his career as a journalist.

David Snell (journalist)

Originally posted by CynicalWabbit
reply to post by votan

 

If you believe the bomb was dropped to prevent bloodshed of our boys you are wrong .. read up what happened at the end of WW1 where generals committed war crimes by pushing soldiers to attack the enemy even after the cease fire was called.. down to the wire they kept pushing them to fight. any war crimes were dismissed from our generals at the time since it was bad pr.

The Japanese a supposed "beaten" enemy inflicted over 62,000 casualties including over 12,500 killed, destroyed 768 planes and sunk 28 ships during the battle of Okinawa which ran from April through June, 1945

If the Japanese fought with such tenacity over Okinawa how do you think they would have fought for Tokyo

edit on 16-4-2012 by CynicalWabbit because: (no reason given)

Absolutley correct, of equally important note were the unarguably fanatical reactions by Japanese military and civilians alike and resulting horrific casualties, tens of thousands of which were suicides.

It was clear to everyone involved that Okinawa, being the first substantial proper Japanese territory to be invaded and defeated, was a barometer to gauge the resistance to the future ground actions already being prepared against the mainland.

This figured prominently into the Truman administrations final decision to demonstrate the bomb.

Civilian losses

At some battles, such as at Battle of Iwo Jima, there had been no civilians involved, but Okinawa had a large indigenous civilian population and, according to various estimates, somewhere between one tenth and one third of them died during the battle.

Okinawan civilian losses in the campaign were estimated to be between 42,000 and 150,000 dead (more than 100,000 according to Okinawa Prefecture.

The U.S. Army figures for the campaign showed a total figure of 142,058 civilian casualties, including those who were pressed into service by the Japanese Imperial Army.

Military losses

By one count, there were about 95,000 Japanese combatants killed and 7,400 captured. Many of the soldiers committed seppuku or simply blew themselves up with hand grenades. In addition, thousands were sealed in their caves alive by the U.S. combat engineers.

Battle of Okinawa

Originally posted by Drunkenparrot

Originally posted by CynicalWabbit
reply to post by votan

 

If you believe the bomb was dropped to prevent bloodshed of our boys you are wrong .. read up what happened at the end of WW1 where generals committed war crimes by pushing soldiers to attack the enemy even after the cease fire was called.. down to the wire they kept pushing them to fight. any war crimes were dismissed from our generals at the time since it was bad pr.

The Japanese a supposed "beaten" enemy inflicted over 62,000 casualties including over 12,500 killed, destroyed 768 planes and sunk 28 ships during the battle of Okinawa which ran from April through June, 1945

If the Japanese fought with such tenacity over Okinawa how do you think they would have fought for Tokyo

edit on 16-4-2012 by CynicalWabbit because: (no reason given)

Absolutley correct, of equally important note were the unarguably fanatical reactions by Japanese military and civilians alike and resulting horrific casualties, tens of thousands of which were suicides.

It was clear to everyone involved that Okinawa, being the first substantial proper Japanese territory to be invaded and defeated, was a barometer to gauge the resistance to the future ground actions already being prepared against the mainland.

This figured prominently into the Truman administrations final decision to demonstrate the bomb.

Civilian losses

At some battles, such as at Battle of Iwo Jima, there had been no civilians involved, but Okinawa had a large indigenous civilian population and, according to various estimates, somewhere between one tenth and one third of them died during the battle.

Okinawan civilian losses in the campaign were estimated to be between 42,000 and 150,000 dead (more than 100,000 according to Okinawa Prefecture.

The U.S. Army figures for the campaign showed a total figure of 142,058 civilian casualties, including those who were pressed into service by the Japanese Imperial Army.

Military losses

By one count, there were about 95,000 Japanese combatants killed and 7,400 captured. Many of the soldiers committed seppuku or simply blew themselves up with hand grenades. In addition, thousands were sealed in their caves alive by the U.S. combat engineers.

Battle of Okinawa

All a bit of a singular point of view don't you think?

Originally posted by passit
reply to post by superballs

 

The US would have never dropped an atomic bomb on a white nation. Think about it. Nazi Germany committed far more atrocities than Japan in the war. They didn't get the bomb, let alone 2. Did they deserve it? How many allied and russian soldiers lives were spent trying to fight for every last inch of Germany? Couldn't that have been avoided?

This has probably been corrected somewhere but just in case it hasn't:

Japanese war crimes
Main article: Japanese war crimes

R. J. Rummel estimates the civilian victims at 5,424,000.

Werner Gruhl estimates the civilian victims at 20,365,000.

The historian Chalmers Johnson has written that “the Japanese slaughtered as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic Chinese

Holocaust deaths

Included in the above figures of total war dead are the victims of the Holocaust
Jewish: ... approximately six million European Jews during World War II,

Other estimates for Holocaust deaths range between 4.9 to 6.0 million Jews

source

No one can really blame you for not knowing. For some reason the fact that the Japanese exterminated somewhere between 6-30 Million people is not well published, studied, or known. We love to talk trash about those dirty Germans though.

Funny thing is, if you go to Germany they are all well aware of the atrocities. They keep some of the camps as a reminder. They teach their children about how horrible it was throughout their entire lives. They have become a self deprecating culture. They are constantly beating themselves up about it. They hate themselves for it.

If you go to Japan, it is the exact opposite. They barely teach WW II at all. When they do they completely gloss it over or fabricate a new truth. Japan is even going so far as to publish school books which say they didn't do anything at all. Instead, they were there helping the rest of Asia and that the rest of Asia should thank them because if it weren't for the Japanese the other countries would be worse off. Not sure if that means they would have trouble feeding the millions that the Japanese culled from their population or....

Schoolbooks 1
Schoolbooks 2
Schoolbooks 3
Schoolbooks 4

Anyhow. Common mistake.

Originally posted by thegagefather

Originally posted by michaelbrux

Originally posted by kman420
Well all you Americans sure have allot of input, I wonder what a japanese person would say...

Oh wait, i know a few, they think you are baby killing tyrants too, what a conincidence.

Only stating the obvious, Both sides did horrable things, I wonder how japanese were "really" treated in concentration camps?

but even though the Japanese may think that...they wouldn't say it from their mouths when standing face to face with the very American they said it about.

they would wait until the American was fully intoxicated enjoying a moment of celebration to say it.

that's what many consider to be bravery and masculinity

many in the middle east behave in this manner as well.

.

Funny how when other people are being opinionated it's because of their nationality, and because they're all the exact same person which constitutes one single baby-killing machine.

Even funnier how when you're equally as opinionated that you're not doing anything wrong.

I didn't know people in the middle east didn't kill anybody. I always thought the entire world did.

Oh that's right -

The funniest joke of all..

Murder is only wrong when someone else is doing it.

Didn't see he was talking about them killing anyone. He was basically saying the Japanese are chicken# and won't tell you what they think unless you are intoxicated with your back turned to them. He said the ppl in the ME are generally the same. Nothing about killing, just about not having the cohones to say something to someone's face.

In my experience, he is completely right. In the ME, however, they will say something with a large enough group. Otherwise, chicken#.

reply to post by Drunkenparrot


Their intent was to use it on us if they could . Even if we deployed the bomb to see the effects on the people we pretty much did the same thing on our own soldiers as well as biological and chemical agents sprayed on the United States population centers as admitted to in front of Congress in the 70's.The Military have a long history of killing our own as well as other citizens calling it experimentation on unsuspecting people .