A Challenge To All Christians.

Originally posted by doomedtoday
reply to post by jhill76

 

Actually the old dusty book states fairly clearly that oral sex is a sin in the lords eyes... That is where I got the information from. I actually did read the old testament when I was around thirteen.

Please provide quote if you can. Father has not set this up as a sin. If this was written, it has come from man.

reply to post by doomedtoday


There god hasn't had 10s of billions of followers throughout history, and their god doesn't have a 66 book Bible, and their god doesn't currently have 2+ billion followers,

That's the most basic reason...I could give many more, if needed.

reply to post by doomedtoday


Why are you so caught up on sin?

Jesus already paid the price you should pay for sin,
stop worrying about sin,
focus on virtues instead

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by doomedtoday

 

There god hasn't had 10s of billions of followers throughout history, and their god doesn't have a 66 book Bible, and their god doesn't currently have 2+ billion followers,

That's the most basic reason...I could give many more, if needed.

The only thing that proves is that your religion is more popular, not more real. Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean it's something you should be doing. Look at how many people use drugs, you still shouldn't do it, I mean if you do its your own business, but it isn't good for your health. Maybe some of the more convincing followers of your religion are more charismatic than others and can more easily bring people around to their side, that still doesn't equal real. Just because something is popular does not mean that it is right, reality television shows seem to be fairly popular today, are they right, should we live like they advise? Also, kind of relating to this because it does have something to do with what you responded to in order to receive this response from me: What if someone is Pagan but one of the nicest people you've ever met, and have never done a bad thing to anyone, do they still go to hell? Why or why not, and if so why and how does that rationally make your god a just and good god?

I wonder how many Africans are going to appreciate God after he created mosquito's and they died of Malaria.
Yeah the list goes on and on. If you're going to create life, why create so many hideous forms of it? What a beautiful world! A creator that couldn't pick a better place, that's what god is.

reply to post by TheCelestialHuman


I applaud the effort S&F - in trying to draw logical debate to the issue of religious dogmatism, however it's just not possible. Even philosophical discussion is tedious at best with fundamentalist viewpoints.

The truth is that Christianity is one of the bullies on the block. Resistance is futile, succumb to Jesus or burn in the fiery abyss of eternal damnation. Charming, really charming...

The only saving grace is that we can suppose that Christ had no control over what mankind would do with his message after leaving Earth.

Originally posted by doomedtoday
reply to post by TheCelestialHuman

 

It doesn't matter man, it's a fact. There are men named Jesus, and they do rise often in many ways. You don't have to see it in a book to know that it's true. If a man with the name of Jesus had taken a seat he would have had to have eventually risen from said seat.

"Men" is the correct terminology to use, in fact, there were at least
Sixteen Crucified Saviours in history, and at least 10
Christ like figures who fit the descriptions of Christ. Christianity says Christ is one man. Can anyone explain these others? Which one is the real one Christians believe in?

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by MissCoyote

 

You've got it twisted though,

The gods and goddesses you serve only exist in your mind, they are no more real than pixies, fairies, tooth fairies, or santa,

The Immortal God exists, and you only exist because He is in you, and you are in Him,

I really want to keep going with this, but I must goto sleep, lol.

"She" seems to be a woman. How can a male Spirit be within her? The Goddess I know is real, I have seen Her apparition before me many times. How many times has Jesus appeared to you, friend? What did he look like? Lightly tanned, with blond hair and beard? Must be a Demon, or Satan trying to fool you.

Sarcasm over. In truth, Iason, you should not stand in a glass house and throw stones. Would you tell a Muslim to his face Mohammad is a fairy tale and not real?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Iason321

 

EDIT: I've helped comfort homosexual Christians in there faith and helped them understand all humans are sexually immoral and deserving of Gods judgement, not just homosexuals, and to learn to live with themselves and seek God and Love...

You "help" comfort homosexuals by telling them that being homosexual is immoral? I just threw up a little in my mouth. Thank "God" that "HE" didn't start interfering any earlier, we might be extinct by now, from all this Christian love. BTW, what's with the two guys in your avatar, what are they up to, hmmm.

I too am curious about that. Even my 14 year old son says that is two men hugging each other is what looks like a sexual embrace. Nothing wrong with that to me, but isn't that the kettle calling the skillet black?

reply to post by autowrench


No, I would not tell a muslim that, I would tell a Muslim mohammed was a false prophet, and explain why, and how Jesus saves, and probably get my butt kicked, or worse.....

reply to post by Iason321


I've never had anything but pleasant philosophical discussions with Muslims. Hmmm. Go figure. Of course, I've only had the occasion to speak with a handful of people in face to face conversation. However, never did I feel threatened or even disrespected in those occasions I did get to ask them questions.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by TheCelestialHuman

 

I applaud the effort S&F - in trying to draw logical debate to the issue of religious dogmatism, however it's just not possible. Even philosophical discussion is tedious at best with fundamentalist viewpoints.

The truth is that Christianity is one of the bullies on the block. Resistance is futile, succumb to Jesus or burn in the fiery abyss of eternal damnation. Charming, really charming...

The only saving grace is that we can suppose that Christ had no control over what mankind would do with his message after leaving Earth.

I highly applaud your valiant efforts to promote intelligent debate, friend.....
Yes, sadly, when you began the thread, I knew this would happen. There will never be an intelligent debate on the Christian religion or the Bible in here, mostly because the Christian membership immediately start acting like schoolchildren, and resort to personal insults, diatribe, and name calling. Bible quotes are offered as proof again and again. Yesterday I read, much to my shock, and horror, a most personal direct insult on one of our Dear Lady Members, name withheld. I could not believe such a vile, and evil thing came out of a Christian mouth.

Within the Christian organization, charges of brainwashing are very common. This is the reduction of the members to a near-zombie state through psychological manipulation. The public, however, has largely been convinced that brainwashing and mind control is a hoax. Well I ask, is it a hoax?

In these forums, here are the tactics I see on a day to day basis:

1. Attempting to recruit large numbers of people into their religious groups, by using deceptive techniques.

2. Once the victim is converted, they are subjecting them to severe mind-control processes that were first developed in communist countries.

3. The new followers' ability to think critically and to make independent decisions is destroyed, and replaced by theoretic
thoughts that are set into stone, with severe punishments attached if the follower fails to perform in their Christian duty.

4. Many such groups have induced their members to kill, and commit suicide.

5. Major amounts of time and effort, and sometimes money to the group is encouraged, and old friends not of the Cult are discouraged. All must conform to the group's behavioral restrictions.

Christian or Gospel Coercive Persuasion (or thought reform as it is sometimes known) is best understood as a coordinated system of graduated coercive influence and behavior modification designed to change the wills and volition of individuals, usually in a group setting, in order for the originators of the program - those witnessing or preaching - to spiritually and psychologically profit from this persuasion to validate their own program and to continue the feeling that the program gives each converted person. This Gospel Coercive Persuasion is a psychological program that is inherently addictive in itself, because the program makes itself the sole purpose of life and feeling. This is one of the reasons why it is so hard on many levels to deprogram and be freed from this psychological addiction of this program.

source
The four main things these religions want full control over in a follower is:
* control of their behavior
* control of their thoughts
* control of their emotions
* control of all information

If these factors can be controlled, a group can gain control of most anyone's mind. I remember quite well the techniques used when I was made to go to church every Sunday, Wednesday and Thursday night. The preacher lilting his voice, the waving of the hands, the pounding on the Bible he carried everywhere like a shield. People said he was "infused with the Holy Spirit." But, when it came down to answering my questions, he failed miserably. He obviously had never read through the entire Bible, and I made him cringe. He did not know a lot of things that are in the KJV Bible that he should have known.

So, to sum up, the Christians are making an attempt at converting every member of ATS to their ways, their thoughts. I think they know, deep in their hearts, they will never be able to accomplish this effort. I know they think their Savior will not return until everyone on Earth hears the Gospel, and come to Christianity. Can any intelligent human being reading this believe that will ever happen? Will Christianity grow like wildfire, and cover the Earth in Churches with big crosses on top of each one?

Or, will human evolution continue as planned, and people become more knowing, more intelligent, and more Spiritual every day? Will science, and archeology eventually prove Christianity wrong?

reply to post by CirqueDeTruth


Try going to Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, or Afghanistan,

Find a friendly neighborhood Mosque,

Go stand outside of it with a sign saying Mohammed was a false prophet, and Jesus is God

Watch what happens.

Forget doing it in the Middle East, try it in front of a Mosque here in America, and see how friendly and collected the Muslims will stay.....if you dare.....

I know muslims can stand outside Christian churches and say we're all gonna goto hell for worshipping an idol, and nobodys going to attack them....

I don't think the same would happen, if the tables were turned...

IF (keyword IF) you want to believe in God then open your heart, mind and soul. Research, study, meditate and ask for answers and they will indeed be given. You can even ask specific questions before you go to sleep and receive the answer to your question if your intent is to truly receive. The power of the mind (God) is awesome in it's own right.

IF (again ..keyword) you do not want to believe in God then... don't. It's that simple.

"Its all in the mind".

What you want to believe ....is what you will get when you take your last breathe so be wise about what you ask for/want/believe. In my opinion it will manifest. Ultimately you can "change your mind" and if and when the soul decides to change the mind it will be so...

All the other silly arguments about dates, people, places, and so on really don't matter when looking at the bigger picture. Your energy transforms and "moves" on. God is Good! Amen.

Your reality is being made by you..... choose wisely I say.

Peace and love to you all! xoxox

Jenn

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by CirqueDeTruth

 

Try going to Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, or Afghanistan,

Find a friendly neighborhood Mosque,

Go stand outside of it with a sign saying Mohammed was a false prophet, and Jesus is God

Watch what happens.

Forget doing it in the Middle East, try it in front of a Mosque here in America, and see how friendly and collected the Muslims will stay.....if you dare.....

I know muslims can stand outside Christian churches and say we're all gonna goto hell for worshipping an idol, and nobodys going to attack them....

I don't think the same would happen, if the tables were turned...

Try standing outside a church in the bible belt of the USA with a sign that says jesus was not god....if you dare.

Or simply mention the fact you do not believe in any god(s).

Jesus either wanted to pretend or would rather die than be without a real father, even to the point of schizophrenic delusions. While other men were teaching their sons how to kick ass and fight roman style, Jesus was brought up only by his kind and respectful mother, and he loved her. (Where was Joseph)
The fact that an emotional person can die and refuse to give in to what they think is right or wrong is what caused this. Even the Romans knew that Jesus was harmless and innocent, no one doubts that he existed. He was like a William Wallace type character, he died and shouted i don't give a [snip]. Jesus may not have been a warrior, but he died in the same torment.

People are taking the whole thing too far.

Why do non-believers make it their duty to bash Christian Faith?
You are worse than Jehovah Witnesses walking door to door.
Give it a rest!

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by doomedtoday
reply to post by TheCelestialHuman

 

It doesn't matter man, it's a fact. There are men named Jesus, and they do rise often in many ways. You don't have to see it in a book to know that it's true. If a man with the name of Jesus had taken a seat he would have had to have eventually risen from said seat.

"Men" is the correct terminology to use, in fact, there were at least
Sixteen Crucified Saviours in history, and at least 10
Christ like figures who fit the descriptions of Christ. Christianity says Christ is one man. Can anyone explain these others? Which one is the real one Christians believe in?

you seem to be a walking talking stumbling block.
If I laid out 10 100 dollar bills in front of you and they all appeared to look the same on the surface without examination but informed you they were all countereits but 1.
Would you throw your hands up in the air and claim they are all frauds or would you examine them all for flaws in order to choose the real deal?
You consistantly use the evidence of the countereits to prove the real deal is the same as the frauds.
Never once have I seen you posit yourself otherwise.
You cannot be trusted to identify truth when you are determined to use fraud to identify truth by association.

reply to post by Iason321


It's an over generalization to suppose that the Muslim faith is any more or less tolerant than Christianity. I am sure that in the mosque's there are liberal views and then there are more rigid and intolerant views.

These countries you refer of, are currently going through their cultures civil rights movement. The oppression and violence these regions are experiencing have more reasons than religion behind it. They are fighting for freedom from their own governments oppressive rule, social issues like equality, and it has to do with the culture and not just the religion of the region! It has to do with their government structure and the corruption from within. It is very similar to the movements we saw in our own history only centuries ago! Most people have no idea the atrocities some of these oil barons in these countries did to their people! While they themselves lived in palaces of gold like kings. Then again I guess we could all look at Hollywood for a comparison huh? All countries have their own social problems, we should leave them to theirs and we attend our own. Leave aid to those countries who wish to receive it, not forced to endure it because it's shoved down their throats.

Muslims are tolerant of other religions, because if you're Muslim I am told, then you have to believe in all the previous religions first. Jesus and Moses , and all the other prophets sent by God (Adam, Abraham, Joseph, Isaac, James, Noah, Lot, etc) they believe in them all and worship Allah the way the Prophet Muhammed did and told them to. He is believed to be the last prophet and Islam is the last religion sent by Allah. Muslims believe in the other religions of God because it's all mentioned in the Qur'an. They create just as strong bonds with people of many faiths as they do with those of their own. I think that you are terribly misinformed as to the reality of what motivates man to commit atrocities against one another, and the understanding that belief is only meant as a moral guide of goodness and search for truth. Rather sooner together, than later apart I should hope.

I would NEVER stand outside a religious establishment and disrespect anyone's lifestyle choices. Whether religious or of another personal nature. I was raised better than that. I respect peoples individual right to freedom and liberty. Period.

Try standing outside a church in the bible belt of the USA with a sign that says jesus was not god....if you dare. Or simply mention the fact you do not believe in any god(s).

I grew up in the bible belt.. I never stood outside with a sign, but i did claim to be athiest and i was disowned by my family for my beliefs. This, in my opinion, is just as brutal as a muslim attacking a christian.. christians are no better than muslims.

On another note, i have read every post on this thread, and no christian has proven there god to be true yet, nor have any of your come close.