Occupiers Beware, 99% Spring (which is not Occupy) Seems Like A Re-elect Obama Effort

reply to post by sonnny1


lol well that explains a lot Sonny
You're in Wisconsin. Just for the record I support the right to form a Union and to have Unions, but like many others, Don't support Big Labor or Bosses who screw their workers as bad as Wall St and the government screws us. Money out of politics.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by sonnny1

 

lol well that explains a lot Sonny

You're in Wisconsin. Just for the record I support the right to form a Union and to have Unions, but like many others, Don't support Big Labor or Bosses who screw their workers as bad as Wall St and the government screws us. Money out of politics.

Ya Got me!!


I was going to go to the Chicago one also. Glad I didnt......I went to the MadTown one,and Milwaukee one too. Too many people,without Jobs. That will always be my lasting impression.

When being bashed by the cops doesn't stop Occupy, then the system will move on to more subtle tactics. Flooding the movement with co-opters, infiltrators, provocateurs, and paid shills, is what that will amount to.

The goal isn't necessarily to discredit the movement. Bad PR can still be overcome. The goal will be something far more insidious.

The government knows that with informal organisations like Occupy, relationships between people have to be primarily trust based. So the goal of infiltrators is going to be to try and destroy that needed trust. Cause infighting, turn people against each other...maybe even send in some undercover cops to spring a couple of particularly timely, juicy arrests if they can come up with suitably messy charges, etc. Creating a general atmosphere within the movement of fear, distrust, and paranoia will be the goal.

If Occupy want to overcome that, they are going to need to know who they can trust, and who they can't. They are also going to have to watch their own tendency to engage in gossip, if they have one, and the general craving for drama that everyone has these days, Occupy or otherwise.

Watch your back, Kali...and tell the others to do likewise. If Occupy truly comes back this year, they will be moving into Gandhicon Three, as Eric Raymond once referred to it; and that is the phase when the opposition customarily takes the gloves off. Things could get seriously rough.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by sonnny1

 

lol well that explains a lot Sonny

You're in Wisconsin. Just for the record I support the right to form a Union and to have Unions, but like many others, Don't support Big Labor or Bosses who screw their workers as bad as Wall St and the government screws us. Money out of politics.

I fully support a people's right to form a Union for a private company. However, there is a clear conflict of interest when public employees form a Union for a job in a market over which they have a monopoly then turn around and fund/support candidates with their dues who will in turn directly increase their wages and support their causes in return for….more dues. Further, making it mandatory to join a Union to get a job is an anathema to American freedom....

Do you see the conflict of interest there?

Anyway back on the topic - good post. I am not a lefty myself and in reading your views for a while now on ATS, disagree with you on...well almost everything but agree that this attempt to surreptitiously support Obama needed to be outed. Just like I think the Tea Party's being co-opted by the republicans needed to be.

What started as a good thing went bad fast.

On OWS - while you are saying they don't support Obama he sure supports them. I don't think he had anything negative to say about it - in fact I think he said he endorsed them.

On the media coverage - I think that the MSM went out of their way to portray OWS as a peaceful grass roots group who were exercising their 1st Amendment rights regardless of their track record of destroying and defiling the areas they "occupied" and calling for people’s heads.

While the Tea Party who left areas cleaner than they found them was vilified and portrayed as extremist, racist crazies who were calling for a violent revolution.

Fox did hit OWS hard but the rest of the MSM all but glorified the movement.

reply to post by petrus4


Thanks for your post, you helped clarify something in my own head. I have no expectation that the 99% Spring will try to infiltrate Occupy, MoveOn already tried and failed, Unions have tried and failed other orgs have tried and failed because they can't pass the GA system.

What you caused to become perfectly clear in my mind is that the 99% Spring is going into small communities, they're targeting people who like the blogger in my OP, want to be involved and active...they see the corruption now and want to stop it. But getting into the big cities where actions take place, sleeping on the sidewalk or in parks isn't option for everyone. These bastards (now that I see it) are playing on those emotions.

Now I'm even more pissed off.

reply to post by Golf66

I fully support a people's right to form a Union for a private company. However, there is a clear conflict of interest when public employees form a Union for a job in a market over which they have a monopoly then turn around and fund/support candidates with their dues who will in turn directly increase their wages and support their causes in return for….more dues. Further, making it mandatory to join a Union to get a job is an anathema to American freedom....

My post alludes to that I see corruption within Labor...

On the media coverage - I think that the MSM went out of their way to portray OWS as a peaceful grass roots group who were exercising their 1st Amendment rights

Very few in the media did this.

regardless of their track record of destroying and defiling the areas they "occupied" and calling for people’s heads.

You just echoed media slander right there, outside of grass being damaged which many occupy groups have offered to repair or pay for only to be rejected, most camps were kept clean. Well, until police raids anyway.

While the Tea Party who left areas cleaner than they found them was vilified and portrayed as extremist, racist crazies who were calling for a violent revolution.

Both have been demonized by the media, it just amazes me this mentality of "well of course it's true about Occupy"

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by petrus4

 

What you caused to become perfectly clear in my mind is that the 99% Spring is going into small communities, they're targeting people who like the blogger in my OP, want to be involved and active...they see the corruption now and want to stop it. But getting into the big cities where actions take place, sleeping on the sidewalk or in parks isn't option for everyone. These bastards (now that I see it) are playing on those emotions.

Then you need to get to them yourselves. If the only paradigm you've had up to this point is camping out in capital cities, and that is causing you to miss potentially valuable people, who even worse, are left vulnerable to genuinely malicious groups as a result, you need to either change or extend your paradigm, immediately. I've said before that Occupy needs to begin incorporating more decentralised, guerilla type tactics; this could be just the opportunity the group needs.

Find a way for Occupations to occur in smaller towns or communities. Get some material online, similar to what they've already got on takethesquare.net, which is instead focused on miniature scale general assemblies or whatever; down to people's back yards, if necessary.

It can be done, Kali. All of it can be. Just brainstorm with the relevant people and make it happen. The group are going to have to start learning to move a little more quickly in scenarios like this...because if Obama starts really putting the pressure on, Occupy are going to suddenly find themselves in a very rapid feedback situation.

reply to post by petrus4


I was summarizing

Originally posted by Kali74 You just echoed media slander right there, outside of grass being damaged which many occupy groups have offered to repair or pay for only to be rejected, most camps were kept clean.

The OWS movement has cost the American taxpayer a pretty penny. Now admittedly a lot of the costs of their protest are related to police presence with which you may or may not agree. Regardless any group that large makes waste – the difference between the Tea Party and OWS is that the Tea Party cleaned their own mess up and didn’t get into vandalizing businesses.

'Occupy' Protests Cost Nation's Cities At Least $13 Million: Survey

But not all protesters have been the best neighbors. In Tennessee, where protesters have been camped outside the Capitol, a State General Services spokeswoman said two cleaning crew members have spent about three hours every morning pressure-washing entrances to the building using household cleaners to deodorize them.

And in Los Angeles, property damage to the park surrounding City Hall – where nearly 500 tents are jammed in – is estimated to be at least $200,000, including the destroyed lawn, sprinklers, graffiti on a fountain and damage to trees and shrubs. City Hall spokesman Peter Sanders says there's not a definite estimate on damage yet because workers have not been able to properly inspect the site.

Your mileage may vary on what is a lot of damage...but this is just asinine.

NYPD Says OWS Dumped Feces & Urine In ATM Vestibule And Down Stairs

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — The NYPD released surveillance video Wednesday night detailing some stinky business they say is linked to Occupy Wall Street protesters.

Police said that on evening of March 14, a number of Occupy demonstrators dragged large quantities of human urine and feces in containers to an open-air plaza before pouring the waste down a flight of stairs.

The incident occurred at the corner of Nassau and Cedar streets in Lower Manhattan. Authorities said that that same night, about 20 minutes later, one of the suspects entered a Chase ATM vestibule on Water Street and poured human waste inside.

Police have released surveillance video of both incidents.

Originally posted by Kali74
Well, until police raids anyway.

I suppose you stating that – at least not until the police raided them is some sort of justification making it ok to then tear the place up?

Back in Oakland - riot police arrested dozens of protesters who had marched through downtown to break into a vacant building, shattering windows, spraying graffiti and setting fires along the way.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

Occupy Oakland protesters claimed victory after they shut down one of the nation's busiest shipping ports - escalating a movement whose tactics had largely been limited to marches, rallies and camps.
In a five-hour stand-off protesters vandalized businesses and smashed bank windows, as they tried to shut down the city - and police appeared to respond using tear gas and flash bang grenades.
The California demonstrators blocked operations at the city's port and stopped traffic on Wednesday in protests against economic inequality and police brutality, marred by scattered vandalism.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

Originally posted by Kali74Both have been demonized by the media, it just amazes me this mentality of "well of course it's true about Occupy"

However, there is no denying that OWS tore things up and probably will do so in the future.

Madam, I was certainly not trying to pick a fight….

I am only stating my opinion of the media coverage in general regarding both groups – I did say “I think”. Perhaps I should have said in my opinion, my poor choice of vernacular.

Occupy is pretty much dead and the .99% nobody really has ever heard of. Now the 9mm and the 7mm mag is who I stand by.

Originally posted by sonnny1
Too many people,without Jobs. That will always be my lasting impression.

I think that is *precisely* their point.

reply to post by Kali74


Lol I have to kid here (don't take it personally) but those are prolly the RP supporters that OWS decided they wanted no part of. Sorry, I'm a bit bitter toward OWS! At first I thought they were for real but when ending the elistist banker-ran Federal Reserve (the REAL root of all of this mess), and ending the IRS were brought to the table, it was largely ignored and replaced by hippy nonsense.

ETA: Look at it this way, at least I bumped your thread!

reply to post by Golf66

The OWS movement has cost the American taxpayer a pretty penny. Now admittedly a lot of the costs of their protest are related to police presence with which you may or may not agree. Regardless any group that large makes waste – the difference between the Tea Party and OWS is that the Tea Party cleaned their own mess up and didn’t get into vandalizing businesses.

I know for a fact here in Boston the dollar amounts were grossly exaggerated, Mayors, Inspectors and PD's made "health issues" a major justification for raiding and tearing down camps.

I suppose you stating that – at least not until the police raided them is some sort of justification making it ok to then tear the place up?

I'm saying police tore the places up making a huge mess when they raided. Not justifying violent reaction which a small handful participated in (only in Oakland by the way) after the fact.

Occupy Oakland protesters claimed victory after they shut down one of the nation's busiest shipping ports - escalating a movement whose tactics had largely been limited to marches, rallies and camps.

In a five-hour stand-off protesters vandalized businesses and smashed bank windows, as they tried to shut down the city - and police appeared to respond using tear gas and flash bang grenades.

Shutting down the ports was an action in solidarity with the Longshoreman Union and the truckers that have been exploited by BGT which is owned by Goldman Sachs.

Every single time there has been destruction and violence committed by people who claim to be part of Occupy, protesters have tried to stop it, have to gone to cops to point people out and the cops ignore them.

reply to post by Wookiep


Ending the Fed and demanding criminal bankers be held accountable remains a large part of the dialogue.

Originally posted by mikellmikell
Occupy is pretty much dead and the .99% nobody really has ever heard of. Now the 9mm and the 7mm mag is who I stand by.

Want me to quote you on that over the coming months? It really isn't, and has a long way to go yet.

An interesting piece I came across from aljazeera (with a discussion/debate on video), asking if the 99% Spring is hi-jacking Occupy. They call the 99% Spring a rival group.

Inside Story Americas discusses with guests: Nathan Schneider, a writer with The Nation and The New York Times; Karunga Gashusha, a former Wall Street analyst turned Occupy protester; and Mike King, an East Bay activist from the University of California, Santa Cruz.

Also the video begins with an Occupier running for Congress in S. Carolina.

"I believe the way to change the system is to change it from within as well as on the exterior. We need to bring this to all fronts not just on the outside with our demonstrations ... we as [the] American people need to occupy the legislative body."

- Walid Hakim, an Occupy protester running as Democrat, South Carolina

I disagree with the idea of getting into government as of yet, I think it's too soon. I believe our fight needs to continue on the streets, to challenge the current paradigm by forcing it to show it's ugliness.

I like how they discuss that co-opting can go both ways, Petrus alluded to this and I think it's valid. I think Occupy can easily co-opt 99% Springers. People are increasingly fed up with our government and officials.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by sonnny1

 

It's not. That's what I'm trying to say lol!

The 99% Spring is not Occupy.

edit on 13-4-2012 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)

And the "Tea Party" isn't the "Tea Party"...but everyone knows the Tea Party they see on TV.

I hate to say "I told you so"...but I told you so


The 99% spring has the funding, has the celebreties, and has ads being played all over left wing radio....right wing radio is talking about it (in a bad way). They talk about the "99% Spring" and "Occupy" in the same sentence. You can say it all you want...but "Occupy" has been hijacked.

You will end up being just like Ron Paul supporters who saw the Tea Party they started hijacked but still continue to claim "that's not the REAL Tea Party". You are from now on going to be trying to fight that "That isn't the REAL Occupy".




Olivia Wilde, Penn Badgley, and Zoe Kravitz...all aimed at the young adult demographic. And I think they hit all the key words in there, 99%, 1%, Occupy....I'm hearing way more about 99% Spring than I am about OWS. ATS is the ONLY place I stilll hear about OWS, and that is only from one or two members.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


And like the blogger in my OP, when people show up to these "trainings" and realize all they're being asked to do is buy an Obama button and sticker they'll walk away. The video is good, pure Occupy language and it appeals to that want to get out on the streets but fails to deliver action. People are increasingly less dumb, sorry for your luck.

In your pictures they still have anti-capitalist and "tax wall street" signs. Just plain ignorance. The govt taxing the people and redistributing/wasting the money is 99% of the problem.

I have been saying for sometime the best way to deal with this is everyone stay home. The best protest is the no protest. They are planning to get the masses stirred up. Let these Soros paid goons get their skulls bashed in and see how much the money is worth. It won't be worth much for long. They are relying on the general public to fall for their propaganda and take the brunt while this paid goon squad agitates the trouble. Why play into their hands? See how long this lasts when people decide to sit the whole thing out. Sit completely out. You can't be dragged out of your house because you won't participate in anything. It is time that the masses out think there ancient tricks.