Arizona Bible Course Bill To Teach Elective In Public Schools Passes Senate

Arizona Bible Course Bill To Teach Elective In Public Schools Passes Senate
Posted: 04/12/2012 5:47 pm Updated: 04/13/2012 3:24 am
HuffPost

The Arizona State Senate has passed a bill that will Create a course on the Bible and its role in Western culture to be offered in high schools as an elective

The bill passed the State House in February.

The Governor will now consider.

The state Board of Education must design a course that must follow state and federal laws in maintaining religious neutrality and must follow strict guidelines as well.

Some other States have similar laws.

Critics says this is risky.

An Arizona bill that creates a high school course for public and charter school students that teaches the Bible and its role in Western culture is headed to the Republican Gov. Jan Brewer's desk for approval.

The state Senate approved House Bill 2563 Thursday with a vote of 21-9. It was approved by the House in February.

Under the proposal, the state Board of Education must design a high school elective course titled "The Bible and its influence on Western Culture," which would include lessons on the history, literature and influence of the Old and New testaments on laws, government and culture, among other aspects of society.

As long as it's an elective course, then who cares.

The moment it becomes mandatory, then it becomes a problem.

Originally posted by Evil_Santa
As long as it's an elective course, then who cares.

The moment it becomes mandatory, then it becomes a problem.

The course isn't mandatory to take, but apparently it's mandatory for the Board of Education to create it. From there, it doesn't seem to be that big a step to make it mandatory to take.

As much as Americans might like telling themselves that their country is not a democracy, in practical terms, it is generally always the majority who rule, either by their action, or their lack of action. If the majority aren't male chauvanist, fundamentalist Christian fascists, then they need to assert that and get bills like this one stepped on. It's fairly simple.

Don't we already have that elective?

Its called church.

Originally posted by Evil_Santa
As long as it's an elective course, then who cares.

The moment it becomes mandatory, then it becomes a problem.

I attended a High School in the South where Bible, Bible Literature and Bible History were all mandatory classes. Upon failure you could be suspended or asked to leave. It was a Christian School, but for people who did not believe the same, or people who just struggled in class in general no doubt felt the wrath upon bad grades in that genre of classes. Honestly it is an invasive class if not chosen electively, telling you what you are supposed to believe in...but then I realize I shouldnt have attended a Christian School for the Sports Program. My Brother actually was asked to leave High School in the 11th grade for 2 semesters of failed Bible class.
I am happy it is becoming elective instead of mandatory so maybe it can save some of the people like me who didnt know the books of the Bible like the back of my hand embarrassment. Boy are they burned into my brain now!

I see nothing wrong with this at all. It is an Elective course and we had this in our public county high school back in the 70's. It was one of the best classes I had.

I think the only way that this should be allowed is if the also have elective courses for other "sacred books", otherwise it's really not fair. If they want to teach religion, teach about all of them, not just one flawed religious book that happens to be the more popular one in the area.

I also believe that if it is TRULY an elective, I do not see a problem if the representatives in AZ are truly going by what their constituents wish.

However,

Electives can become mandatory through some backdoor methods.

For example, many schools break their electives down into groups and require students to take a certain amount of electives from each group.
A school could easily form a group with this class in, grouped with a bunch of classes that the average student would absolutely hate. This would create the illusion of choice as most classes have a minimum student sign up quota or they are canceled. Conceivably it could be impossible for a student to take any of the other classes in the group due to lack of interest, effectively forcing them to take the Bible class.
One of the Colleges I attended actually had a group like that. It was filled with religious classes except for one which to me, and I would imagine others, would have been horrible to take.

So one has to be careful of getting a class in under the guise of being an "elective", there are ways of making a "elective" virtually a requirement.

Originally posted by kennylee
I see nothing wrong with this at all. It is an Elective course and we had this in our public county high school back in the 70's. It was one of the best classes I had.

Yes, but the issue is that people of your age group, are the only people in contemporary terms, who are likely to want this.

Christianity is currently in systemic decline, on a global level. Back in the 1970s, there may well have been a large number of people who either would have attended this course voluntarily, or could have viably been forced to attend, due to mandatory taking of such a course (made mandatory by parents, not the state) having been socially acceptable at the time. It is no longer considered socially acceptable to force students to accept religious instruction; and less than 5% of a given contemporary student population, are likely to undertake this course voluntarily.

This bill would have been authored, and if it passes, supported by the usual minority of white, male, 50+, fundamentalist Christian fascists who are always responsible for the attempted passage of such bills. Said individuals do not represent the desires, priorities, or fundamental values of 97% of the human population.

"The Bible and its influence on Western Culture"?

Gee, where do we start?

The paedophile priests, the wars or how it manipulates people into handing over their money?

As long as it teaches the truth, I think it is a great idea!

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
"The Bible and its influence on Western Culture"?

Gee, where do we start?

The paedophile priests, the wars or how it manipulates people into handing over their money?

As long as it teaches the truth, I think it is a great idea!

Like they say....

All Roads Lead to Rome.

reply to post by xuenchen


I wonder how much tax payer money was spent on getting this bill passed? What exactly was the point of all this? Isn't attending church enough?

Wasn't this the whole point of having Sunday School?

Now they want to mix taxpayer-funded public education with religion, something the founders were very careful to keep separated.

Sure, it's an elective (...for now), but we all know how school is... submit to peer pressure and conformity to authority, if you don't take the bible class you'll have one more reason to be alienated and ostracized.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


I wonder just how dire Arizona's border and illegal immigration problem is? Considering that it wasn't too long ago that they were so vocal over what they saw as a lack of efford and funding in protecting the border. Yet we have tax payment money being spent on birther bills and bills for bible classes. Really?

reply to post by petrus4


Err.. how the hell do you make that connection?

It's an elective.. some kids want their bible study. Why do people have to be such damn pricks all the time going out of their way to take a giant @#% on someones elses beliefs?

It's an elective. Don't like it.... don't elect to take it.

Would you be okay with taxpayers funding an elective class on Atheism or Satanism or Judaism, etc.? If parents want their kids to have a religious education send them to Catholic school, a Jesuit school, or a Temple-related school, etc. Introducing religious classes into a public school not only undermines separation of church and state it makes public school more expensive. Even a "comparative religion" class is fine, but making it a 'Christian bible" class sort of alienates anyone not Christian.

I'd love to see this blow up on the Senators by having teachers that actually teach the real history behind the Bible. Like how it is mostly an anagram of older sources adapted to suit the Jews and that there is no historical evidence for the majority of the events recorded in the Bible, including the Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, and the existence of a Christ-Figure.

reply to post by petrus4


Actually, it's not the rest of the planet they represent only Americans.

And more than 75% of ALL Americans consider themselves Christians.

So they are representing the majority.

But this does indeed seems to be just a sneaky way to bring the Bible and Christianity to a captive audience. I hope it gets shut down.

So kids will have the opportunity to study religion in schools designed to teach fact, and may do so by foregoing other more productive electives that may actually benefit their education?

Another step backwards in my opinion.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

It's an elective.. some kids want their bible study. Why do people have to be such damn pricks all the time going out of their way to take a giant @#% on someones elses beliefs?

There's a time and place for everything... for bible study the time and place is Sunday at church.

Using the same objection that christians use in the debates over women's reproductive rights, "I don't want my tax dollars going to fund that because I don't believe in it." The same objection can also apply to school vouchers.

The religious minded usually have no problem crapping on other peoples beliefs and rights, but they sure as hell want us to bend over to their every demand to integrate religious doctrine into our schools and expand their influence over the rest of society. Where do we draw the line?