Mars Viking Robots 'Found Life'

Mars Viking Robots 'Found Life'
Mathematical analysis adds to growing body of work questioning the negative results of a life-detection experiment 36 years ago.
By Irene Klotz
Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:23 PM ET

New analysis of 36-year-old data, resuscitated from printouts, shows NASA found life on Mars, an international team of mathematicians and scientists conclude in a paper published this week.

Researchers distilled the Viking Labeled Release data, provided as hard copies by the original researchers, into sets of numbers and analyzed the results for complexity. Since living systems are more complicated than non-biological processes, the idea was to look at the experiment results from a purely numerical perspective.

In a paper published this week, neuropharmacologist and biologist Joseph Miller, with the University of Southern California Keck School of Medicine concludes that the Mars Viking landers did indeed find life.

The results of the experiment conducted 36 years ago have always been in question but these new studies may be the best evidence yet short of actually sending a microscope to the surface and viewing the little critters. To me this is amazing news. I've always thought that this would be the way life on other planets would be disclosed. It's not very dramatic but it sure is exciting!!

reply to post by Blarneystoner

Great find, I'm not sure if its been posted before but I haven't seen it so I'm glad you made a thread!
Kinda goes hand in hand with the dinosaur thread...well not really.
S&F

Yes, and in the process killed it! First contact and we kill the martians, deny it, deny they exist, great work NASA LOL

This is very exciting news - great catch. I'm with the OP in that I also expected finding life like this would have been the first step in the discovery of extra terrestrial life. Getting the microscope there would be fantastic! Let's just hope these new findings hold up to peer review or worse.

Nice post OP s+f figured this would be appropriate, and give you a chuckle

reply to post by AutOmatIc


Well done NASA the first martian road kill

Originally posted by abeverage
Yes, and in the process killed it! First contact and we kill the martians, deny it, deny they exist, great work NASA LOL

Where did you find the analysis of the dirt killed the natural state of inert minerals?

McKay in the followup article;

"If the Viking team had said 'Well, maybe there's perchlorate in the soil,' everybody would have said they're crazy

Means nothing.

Perchlorate are the salts derived from perchloric acid (HClO4). They occur both naturally and through manufacturing. They have been used as a medicine for more than 50 years to treat thyroid gland disorders. They are used extensively within the pyrotechnics industry, and ammonium perchlorate is also a component of solid rocket fuel. Lithium perchlorate, which decomposes exothermically to give oxygen, is used in oxygen "candles" on spacecraft, submarines and in other esoteric situations where a reliable backup or supplementary oxygen supply is needed. Most perchlorate salts are soluble in water, except Potassium perchlorate which has the lowest solubility of the alkali metal perchlorates

From McKay;

The Viking team's verdict that Mars lacked organics was the lynchpin argument against another Viking experiment that looked for signs of microbial life. In the experiment, a bit of nutrient-laced water was added to a sample of Martian soil.

The air above the soil was then monitored for signs that the nutrients had been metabolized. The instrument detected tracer gases the first time the experiment was done, but subsequent runs did not. The results were considered inconclusive and remain contested.

New evidence for organics on Mars does not mean Viking found life, cautions McKay.

"Finding organics is not evidence of life or evidence of past life. It's just evidence for organics," he said.

Same old story about the Martian meteor studies, organics do not mean life, and perchlorate does not mean organic. All you need is one carbon atom bound to 4 hydrogen atoms to be termed organic; methane, and gas is not life. They are implying the C and H mean life, a stretch.

Perchloric acid is the inorganic compound with the formula HClO4. Usually found as an aqueous solution, this colorless compound is a strong acid comparable in strength to sulfuric and nitric acids.

reply to post by Illustronic


...but they're not done.

He also is reanalyzing the data to see if there are variations when sunlight was blocked by a weeks-long dust storm on Mars, with the idea being that biological systems would have acted differently to the environmental change than geologic ones. Results of the research are expected to be presented in August.

I guess we'll have to check back in August to see the results.

And I don't think they're merely pointing to C and H and shouting 'eureka'!

The new study took a different approach. Researchers distilled the Viking Labeled Release data, provided as hard copies by the original researchers, into sets of numbers and analyzed the results for complexity. Since living systems are more complicated than non-biological processes, the idea was to look at the experiment results from a purely numerical perspective.

...but I respect your skepticism, it is the ATS way after all.

This thread from 2008 looks like a good read on the topic.

reply to post by Blarneystoner


Take a teaspoon of earth anywhere on this planet and signs of life will literally jump out at you. If one needs to look so deep for life it is probably something else, some unobserved natural sublimation process of inert dirt due to exposure of stellar wind and atomic isotopic mutations. It isn't crawling bacteria or intelligent virus, it isn't even a complete chain of life, it is ingredients of life, incomplete. So is phosphorus. So is iron. So is nitrogen. So is gasoline.

Originally posted by Illustronic
reply to post by Blarneystoner

 

Take a teaspoon of earth anywhere on this planet and signs of life will literally jump out at you. If one needs to look so deep for life it is probably something else, some unobserved natural sublimation process of inert dirt due to exposure of stellar wind and atomic isotopic mutations. It isn't crawling bacteria or intelligent virus, it isn't even a complete chain of life, it is ingredients of life, incomplete. So is phosphorus. So is iron. So is nitrogen. So is gasoline.

reply to post by Illustronic


So what's your point? I understand that they didn't actually find microbes. They are analyzing the data in new and interesting ways which are producing new and interesting results. Why do you have a problem with that? You've said your peace....maybe you should take this up with the Joseph Miller.

If I'm not mistaken, Joseph Miller has been trying to prove that the Viking experiment found life for many years, with different approaches, but he is yet to find something that can be considered real proof.

As the article says, the method used is not even known to work, as it was not tested on known data from Earth samples.

reply to post by ArMaP


So... this work is discredited because Joseph Miller has been analyzing the data for many years?

hmmm...

No worries though Mr. ArMaP. Someone posted an MSNBC story about the same topic after this one (completely ignoring the format for a breaking news story BTW) So, this thread will die w/out much more attention.

Live long and prosper...

Originally posted by Illustronic
reply to post by Blarneystoner

 

Take a teaspoon of earth anywhere on this planet and signs of life will literally jump out at you. If one needs to look so deep for life it is probably something else, some unobserved natural sublimation process of inert dirt due to exposure of stellar wind and atomic isotopic mutations. It isn't crawling bacteria or intelligent virus, it isn't even a complete chain of life, it is ingredients of life, incomplete. So is phosphorus. So is iron. So is nitrogen. So is gasoline.

You said a spoonfull here on this planet....... So are you under the assumption that all life has to evolve like it does on earth? I don't think so life is too resilient to be limited to this rock and it's natural progression. Natural progression on another planet could be totally different.

Originally posted by Blarneystoner
So... this work is discredited because Joseph Miller has been analyzing the data for many years?

No, the work is discredited mostly because it's based on an unproven method.

The fact that Joseph Miller has been analysing the data for many years and presenting several different theories about it makes me think that he is trying all he can to make the data fit his ideas.

reply to post by swampcricket


The method they used was based on life as we know it, that's the only thing we can look for.

So what are they gonna call these micro organisms? How about Marmites? They should bring it back and see how it copes with our enviroment. I want to have a liltle marmite. I wanna name mine Marty.

reply to post by Blarneystoner


This thread has lots of interesting stuff the other threads on this don't have, and vica versa. If this gets shut down could people move their comments to the "accepted" thread? Thanks.

Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by swampcricket

 

The method they used was based on life as we know it, that's the only thing we can look for.

Yeah I know and that really sucks because we can only look for what we know to be proven as fact. It actually makes it kinda hard to look or think outside of the box without knowing where or how to look. I'm sure one day hopefully in my lifetime (I'm only 34) that we do open pandoras box but only time will tell.

Originally posted by Aleister
reply to post by Blarneystoner

 

This thread has lots of interesting stuff the other threads on this don't have, and vica versa. If this gets shut down could people move their comments to the "accepted" thread? Thanks.

Why would this one be shut down? This thread was posted before the other ones. Makes no difference to me but strictly speaking, the other one should be closed according to the T&C.