If Yahweh/Jehovah Commanded You to Kill Innocent Schoolchildren, Would You Obey?

reply to post by EvilSadamClone

hmmm, I always have to wonder why the most ignorant claim to know that others have blind faith by which to discern spiritual truths.
Can you be the first to answer that dilemna for me?

reply to post by 1nOne


You should try reading this in context, and see why the LORD commanded what He did.

While your at it, you should use an official translation, (The KJV or CLT), instead of the NLT, the NLT doesn't represent the original very well.

You should also research the original Hebrew form of this verse.

If you do all these things, and still have questions in regards to this subject, I can further explain things to you.

Here's this verse in context:

Ezekiel 9

1He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

2And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.

3And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

4And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

5And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

7And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

8And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

9Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not.

10And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.

11And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.



Let me ask you a question - if you knew there was a city where everybody in that city was a rapist, pedophile, murderer, horrible, horrible people, would you rather if God continued letting them go about there wicked ways? Or would you rather God put His foot down, and slay the wicked?

There is much more to it than this, I am just beginning to scratch the surface.

Nonbelievers are so quick to judge and jump to conclusions without doing any amount of thorough research....for a group who prides themselves on knowledge and wisdom, they sure do lack any significant amount of insight....

First I'd check for hidden speakers under my seat, then I'd make a thread on ATS and be rewarded with a bejillion flags before checking myself into the nuthouse for a holiday.

It's amazing to me there could be any other answer than NO.

I have never understood how anyone could worship a god that would ask you to kill in his name. This seems like a very un god like thing to ask. Also why would God need you to handle his business? Why would you worship a god who needed to ask you to handle his business?

Some have told me would prove to love/loyalty/devotion to god. Shouldn't something able to create the universe already know that or is he just that insecure? I can not wrap my head around it. It makes no logical sense to me.

Originally posted by icepack
reply to post by CLPrime

 

what do you say about job ? did god agree to get his wife and children killed ?

Job's wife wasn't touched, actually.
I suppose to keep here alive to nag the # out of Job while all of this was happening, maybe something like this - "You still worship that God!?" "Look what is happening Job! Curse God and let's just die already!" (note she didn't actually say this)

Yet Job remained faithful.

reply to post by 1nOne


1. Aren't soldiers and governments given orders to kill men women & children when they go on bombing raids. In WW2 the bombing of London, Berlin etc was pretty indiscriminate?

How many people kill in the name of the God of War? Look what's going on in Africa.. Millions of children have died as a result of man made wars.

The Israelis even sent white phosporous shells onto the Gaza strip...one hit a school a few years. The results are just sickening. Where was the international outrage?

2. Have you any idea of what these Canaanite people were like? They regularly sacrificed their children to the God Baal by passing their children through the fire. Either that or they buried them alive....Thousands of stone jars have been found in their cities with the bones of babies. Human sacrifices seem to appear to be the order of the day across the globe as part of their worship of the Sun God Baal, (Molech) who incidentally was the renamed Nimrod, the original God of War - grandson of Noah who the Bible called "A mighty hunter in opposition of Jehovah"

If you go to the British Museum in London, you can see a conveyor belt where the first born of each family as babies and young children were placed upon which dropped into a fiery furnace below through Molech - the Bull Sun God....associated with Baal (Nimrod). If the Canaanite mother showed ANY sign of emotion the sacrifice was nullified and she had to offer up the next child. Bands played music to drown out the screams of the children.

This is why Jehovah ordered Joshua and the Israelites to destroy many of the Canaanite, Baal worshipping nations, when they took back their former territories in the Promised Land.

These were detestable practices to the God of Israel -

Deuteronomy 18:9, 10 . . .When you are entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to do according to the detestable things of those nations. 10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire,. . .

At times even the nation of Israel adopted these heinous practices as Jeremiah lamented concerning the King of Judah Zedekiah who lead the people in worship of false Gods, mixed in with their beleif in Jehovah.

Jeremiah 32:35 . . .Furthermore, they built the high places of Ba′al that are in the valley of the son of Hin′nom, in order to make their sons and their daughters pass through [the fire] to Mo′lech, a thing that I did not command them, neither did it come up into my heart to do this detestable thing, for the purpose of making Judah sin.’

’


3. In particular the Amalekites hated the nation of Israel -

The Amalekites were “the first one of the nations” to launch an unprovoked attack on the Israelites after the Exodus, at Rephidim near Mount Sinai. As a consequence, Jehovah decreed ultimate extinction for the Amalekites. (Nu 24:20; Ex 17:8-16; De 25:17-19) A year later, when the Israelites attempted to enter the Promised Land contrary to Jehovah’s word, they were repulsed by the Amalekites. (Nu 14:41-45) Twice during the days of the Judges these adversaries of Israel shared in assaulting Israel. They did it in the days of Eglon king of Moab. (Jg 3:12, 13) Again, with the Midianites and Easterners, they pillaged the land of Israel seven years before Gideon and his 300 men dealt them a smashing defeat.—Jg 6:1-3, 33; 7:12; 10:12.

Because of this persistent hatred, during the period of the kings Jehovah ‘called to account’ the Amalekites, commanding King Saul to strike them down, which he did “from Havilah as far as Shur, which is in front of Egypt.” However, Saul, overstepping Jehovah’s order, spared Agag their king. But God was not mocked, for “Samuel went hacking Agag to pieces before Jehovah in Gilgal.” (1Sa 15:2-33) Some of David’s raids included Amalekite villages, and when they in return attacked Ziklag and carried off David’s wives and goods, he and 400 men overtook them, recovering all that had been stolen. (1Sa 27:8; 30:1-20) During the reign of Hezekiah, some of the tribe of Simeon annihilated the remnant of the Amalekites

4 These were in the days before the teachings of Jesus replaced the Mosaic law. Jesus said that he was making a new covenant with men that they should put down their swords and be peaceable. Therefore ALL first century Christians refused military service and refused to kill their fellow man. Since that time many Christians have been imprisoned for refusing to fight and so have their children.

5. How many babies die on the altar of convenience and are aborted each year across the globe? In one part of a hospital in the UK a baby of 24 weeks gestation can be legally literally being torn limb from limb from the womb, whilst in another part of the same hospital a baby as young as 23 weeks, or even younger is being kept on life support.

reply to post by Iason321

if you knew there was a city where everybody in that city was a rapist, pedophile, murderer, horrible, horrible people, would you rather if God continued letting them go about there wicked ways? Or would you rather God put His foot down, and slay the wicked?

Look again... in context...

6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women:

Do these sound like rapists, pedophiles, murderers, or horible people to you?

There is much more to it than this, I am just beginning to scratch the surface.

Nonbelievers are so quick to judge and jump to conclusions without doing any amount of thorough research....for a group who prides themselves on knowledge and wisdom, they sure do lack any significant amount of insight....

This is true... i believe you haven't even scratched the surface of the issue....

reply to post by 1nOne


Perhaps if someone were to ask you if you would kill 42 Million Chidren you'd say NO.

And yet THAT is the number of estimated abortions that are taking place each year across the globe...to the God of convenience...

On many occasions because she is a female baby.....

Its OK taking Scriptures out of context and making out the Jehovah is a wanten & cruel God, but how do you think he feels about 42 Million lives being snuffed out needlessly every year? What's more that number is growing.

Jehovah cherishes the life of an unborn child...

(Psalm 139:16) . . .Your eyes saw even the embryo of me, And in your book all its parts were down in writing, As regards the days when they were formed And there was not yet one among them.

And as we now know just as the Psalmist alludes to the DNA Genetic code indeed contains all of the parts of a human being from the moment of conception....just like they were written in a book.

Even if by accident a foetus was miscarried by someone injuring a pregnant woman, it was a serious matter under the Mosaic Law.

(Exodus 21:22-25) . . .“And in case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs, he is to have damages imposed upon him without fail according to what the owner of the woman may lay upon him; and he must give it through the justices. 23 But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for soul, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 branding for branding, wound for wound, blow for blow.

Originally posted by BeforeTheHangmansNoose
reply to post by 1nOne

 

If god needs or wants something, he is not god.

What if God needs a spaceship?

There is only one justifiable reason to take another human or living beings life. Self preservation/Survival. The ONLY reason. No god, deity, or person could ever get me to harm another living being. Especially on the grounds they somehow deserve it. But if you threaten the life of me or my loved ones thats another story.

reply to post by JAY1980


But that's what the Amalekites were doing - constantly attacking the Israelites at every opportunity.

They were the first nation to make an unprovoked attack upon the Israelites at Rephidim near Mount Sinai after Moses led the Israelites and the Egyptian Alien residents out of the land of Egypt following Jehovah's humiliating defeat of Pharoah after numerous warnings, which went unheeded.

If the Amalekites had left the Israelites alone then as with other nations Jehovah wouldn't have ordered their total extinction.

These were dangerous times in the Middle East... tribes and nations were constantly warring with each other over water, flocks, materials, slaves etc etc. Just like today the area was a powder cake and life was cheap to many and as will all matters it's not always black and white. Nor has much changed when you look at what's going on in Syria, Iran et al today.

The Mosaic law was very much an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth in those days.

Jesus both fulfilled the Law of Moses and instituted a new covenant....one which taught his followers to practice foremost Loving God and their fellow man. The Jews rejected Jesus because he refused to become their King and fight their Roman masters ...he also exposed their wicked ways...so Caiphus and the Jewish leaders had him put to death, because his miracles and teaching were becoming infamous and threatening their nice little earner at the Temple.

reply to post by JB1234


Ok this is the insanity I grew up with as a Jehovah's Witness, answer me this, what freaking God who created everything picks a favorite people? Ridiculous, utterly ridiculous. God is love, but he'll pick these people over you, God is love, but he loves the smell of burning flesh, yum! God is love but if you learn the knowledge of good and bad you will be punished, if you worship another God you will be punished, if you don't follow the comments some dude wrote on a stone supposedly, you will be punished and you will be punished thoroughly.

The god of the bible sounds like a bipolar dictator to me. No thanks, I believe in love, I don't believe in Monsters.

reply to post by sweetstuff


Erm the favourite people picked themselves methinks...

Almost all of the world's religions can be traced back to the original lie told to Eve by Satan in the Garden of Eden - "You positively will not die". God told Adam & Eve that the punishment for sin was death.

Ever since that time every single faith bar the one that worshipped the true God Jehovah taught that when you die - you don't really die.

Otherwise it wouldn't really have been a punishment on Adam & Eve if they didn't really die but would live on as an immortal soul or be re-incarnated as someone or something else.

The Pagan ancient nations like the Egyptians, the Sumerians etc etc were obsessed with the afterlife, the immortality of the soul and worship of their dead ancestors.

What's more these beleifs permeate mankind all over the globe.

Nimrod was the first man after the great flood, according to the Bible who put himself in opposition to Jehovah. His wife/mother Semiramis and his son Tammuz became the first HOLY family when Semiramis proclaimed her dead husband Nimrod had risen to the Sun to become the God Baal. ALL of mankind was to worship him in the afterlife and his son Tammuz. Where the origins of the Cross come from. "The Cross of Tau"... We see this now echoed in what's now the world's first offical temple Gobekli Tepe - " A sacred high place"

I wonder how many people laying wreaths at an obelisk (phalic symbol) on Poppy Day to the War dead realise that they are actually memorialising Nimrod's (the original God of Wars) penis? Nimrod who later was worshipped as Baal, Molech who demanded nothing less than a regular sacrifice of human blood, preferably from a new born baby or young child..

Interestingly enough the main teaching of the occult is all about Nimrod, Semiramis & Tammuz under the title of the Mystery of Babylon.

There's a fantastc thread available on ATS which someone (who is most certainly NOT a JW)... began a while ago which explains this in much more detail - ALL ROADS LEAD TO BABYLON

Faithful men like Enoch, Noah, Abraham ALL beleived that when you die you are "conscious of nothing" just as the Bible teaches..... and that when they died they simply fell asleep in death, awaiting a time when God would ressurect them, once the promised seed had come about as foretold in Genesis.Therefore God's people simply became the line to whom Jesus the promised seed would appear from.

They weren't just the favoured people of Jehovah...the Israelites stood out as the worshippers of the True God... who did not beleive the same as the nations did in the main unless they turned against him at times.

Things haven't really changed that much today...there is still only one faith that teaches that only a tiny minority of mankind are destined for an afterlife in heaven. That there is most certainly no such place as Hell, where bad souls are tormented..... and that almost all of mankind when he dies simply returns to dust has no immortal soul that lives on.

As Ecclesiastes 9:5 states... . . 

 "For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all",. . .

As faithful Joshua stated....

Joshua 24:15. . .Now if it is bad in YOUR eyes to serve Jehovah, choose for yourselves today whom YOU will serve, whether the gods that YOUR forefathers who were on the other side of the River served or the gods of the Am′or·ites in whose land YOU are dwelling. But as for me and my household, we shall serve Jehovah.”

I have no idea what is going through your head to make such an "off topic" thread. In these modern times, God himself wouldn't even ask such a question. And if he did, the thought of it shouldn't even crosses one's mind.

I'm going to stop right here because I find myself in violation!!!!

Of course not. the mentioned god is a fraud, and his (or its) history of slaughter and destruction prove it. The only thing worse than this supposed deity is its followers who don't question the validity of its claims or motives.

Originally posted by sweetstuff
reply to post by JB1234

 

Ok this is the insanity I grew up with as a Jehovah's Witness, answer me this, what freaking God who created everything picks a favorite people? Ridiculous, utterly ridiculous. God is love, but he'll pick these people over you, God is love, but he loves the smell of burning flesh, yum! God is love but if you learn the knowledge of good and bad you will be punished, if you worship another God you will be punished, if you don't follow the comments some dude wrote on a stone supposedly, you will be punished and you will be punished thoroughly.

The god of the bible sounds like a bipolar dictator to me. No thanks, I believe in love, I don't believe in Monsters.

Yes, the jw's and other cults really mess people up in later years in discerning scripture and spiritual truths.
I am sorry for your childhood indoctrination and the troubles it has caused you.
There is still truth where disinformation exists though and it only requires your due diligence and the humility to seek truth for truths sake when it comes to Him.
But I understand how hard this will be for you.
I was raised in a cult, mormonism, myself and it took alot to get past the stuff I accepted in my indoctrination too.
I hope the fog lifts for you as it did me.

Originally posted by volafox
Of course not. the mentioned god is a fraud, and his (or its) history of slaughter and destruction prove it. The only thing worse than this supposed deity is its followers who don't question the validity of its claims or motives.

yes yes, this is true.
Just as bad as those that remain ignorant and choose to believe disinfo as truth.
It seems most here has been slipped a red herring.

Wow, what a good question. Well, even if it were proven to me that one of those children were to be the world's next Hitler, or worse, W. if would still have to say no.

I suppose that all depends on how id react to a good dosing of Funvax .