The National Debt Ceiling Will Be Reached On September 19, 2012

It looks like the national news media is ignoring the ever-looming National Debt Crisis.

The National Debt is increasing at $4.68 billion per day.

At that rate, the debt ceiling ($16.394 trillion) will be reached on September 19, 2012.

That's 2 months before the election!

Woops! Obama wasn't planning on having to deal with this prior to the election.

And I predict they'll raise it again instead of you know, trying to actually stop getting us into further debt?

I sometimes wonder if tptb are purposefully trying to bankrupt America so they can have control over the entire land and turn us all into slaves.

reply to post by delrio256


The Ceiling is whatever America says it is, Money has no worth anymore, were all spending I'O'U'S, The limit set is that one when the entire monetary system collapses, which is closer than we all think

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone

I sometimes wonder if tptb are purposefully trying to bankrupt America so they can have control over the entire land and turn us all into slaves.

I believe that that is exactly their plan.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone

I sometimes wonder if tptb are purposefully trying to bankrupt America so they can have control over the entire land and turn us all into slaves.

I believe that that is exactly their plan.

Its working in Greece.

The rate that we incur debt will increase, so we'll prolly hit that ceiling sooner. Although it is all a sham, as another poster pointed out, and the whole thing is just propped up artificially. When TPTB want to crash america, they will. Lately, I have been thinking they might not go with a SHTF event, and may just grind us down incrementally; like that have been doing for all these years.

reply to post by Germanicus


You've got a point there Germanicus

reply to post by delrio256


It is difficult to predict the exact date. They usually issue a warning a month or so before it looks to be hit.

I don't think the GOP wants to have yet another debacle right before elections. They haven't looked so great the last couple of Debt Cieling Drama's.

Every analyst and economist agreed that the "Downgrade" that resulted from the last deal was a kick to our economys nuts during a recovery...the deal that the GOP celebrated..."We got 99% of what we wanted!"..John Boehner.

So I anticipate the GOP will do everything possible to avoid the debt cieling being hit before the elections.

Otherwise they will be forced to vote to either piss off thier base by raising the ceiling, or oppose it and once again be responsible for hobbling a recovering economy.

Do you know what else every economist (left and right) agree on? That the reason the USA is recovering while europe is poised for second recession is because Europes "Austerity Measures" have been overly severe and politicized, while the USA has not gone that route, but rather placed a bet on it's people to recover thier place in the world.

It's a gamble, but one worth taking in my opinion. If we emerge from the recession first while Europe and Asia appear to be poised to double dip, we can recover our losses quickly and the debt will reverse at a quicker pace than anticipated and we will gain ground in the world economy.

I am no fan of debt. But if the government is to invest or gamble on anything...it should be it's people, thier ability to innovate and succeed etc. America truly is great and I don't mind taking that gamble.

Debt in US$ means jack squat to the US.
If by some miracle you cant roll over treasuries (Right now people pay money to have US-Bonds) you can print it.

If Greece was still on the Drachme (Able to print their own money) they would just go ahead and print it, pay off their debtors, devalue the Drachme in the process, making greek goods cheaper in the international market, and helping their export industry.
But only the EZB in Frankfurt can do that, and they won't because all they care about is inflation.

reply to post by Indigo5


I am not sure if you understand but the massive debt is what is stopping the american people from a recovery, not facilitating it. Look no further than Japans lost decade for proof of that. We are doing everything that they were/ are still doing.

I don't agree with austerity measures in the USA either but that is only because we don't actually need to cut back on entitlements (not that I agree that entitlements should exist but it is a bit late for that argument), we just need to stop wasting money overseas and just wasting money in general.

The budget could be balanced overnight without cutting/changing a single entitlement program and without raising taxes. It is all just a ruse. Executive and legislative branch slight of hand.

End the feds control of the money supply and interest rates, end the government intervention in the market place and we will be in full recovery mode and this recession/depression will be an old topic within a year.

If a recovery occurs it will be in-spite of what the government is doing, not because of it. History has proven that argument time and time again.

The money should be spent by american citizens, let us gamble on ourselves, not have the government gamble on our behalf.

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by delrio256

 

It is difficult to predict the exact date. They usually issue a warning a month or so before it looks to be hit.

I don't think the GOP wants to have yet another debacle right before elections. They haven't looked so great the last couple of Debt Cieling Drama's.

Every analyst and economist agreed that the "Downgrade" that resulted from the last deal was a kick to our economys nuts during a recovery...the deal that the GOP celebrated..."We got 99% of what we wanted!"..John Boehner.

So I anticipate the GOP will do everything possible to avoid the debt cieling being hit before the elections.

Otherwise they will be forced to vote to either piss off thier base by raising the ceiling, or oppose it and once again be responsible for hobbling a recovering economy.

Do you know what else every economist (left and right) agree on? That the reason the USA is recovering while europe is poised for second recession is because Europes "Austerity Measures" have been overly severe and politicized, while the USA has not gone that route, but rather placed a bet on it's people to recover thier place in the world.

It's a gamble, but one worth taking in my opinion. If we emerge from the recession first while Europe and Asia appear to be poised to double dip, we can recover our losses quickly and the debt will reverse at a quicker pace than anticipated and we will gain ground in the world economy.

I am no fan of debt. But if the government is to invest or gamble on anything...it should be it's people, thier ability to innovate and succeed etc. America truly is great and I don't mind taking that gamble.

edit on 10-4-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

Not trying to be confrontational, but there's a lot you just said that I don't agree with. Please don't take this as a personal attack. I look forward to hearing your point of view.

The date we will hit the debt ceiling is actually able to be predicted quite accurately. There are some things the Treasury and Fed can do to push the date a few weeks in either direction, but the cash burn rate is very predictable.

I think the GOP will try once again to make a spectacle with the debt ceiling. Not saying this is right, wrong, dumb, or smart, but it would be consistent with what's happened over and over.

I disagree the the U.S. is recovering economically. Maybe we're not a bad off as the E.U. yet, but it's an argument over who is on fire the most. We are no longer headed toward the cliff, we have driven right off it. While the official unemployment rate shows about a 2% improvement, it's only because so many folks have been permanently removed from the labor statistics. The "employment" rate remains flat for the past couple years.

The government has no right to "gamble" with our money. We have double-dipped, and are about to triple dip.

I'll end on a note of agreement...I am no fan of debt, either.

What would be wrong with balancing the budget? I am not an accountant or economist but I know I have a finite amount of cash coming in and have to live within my means. I can borrow cash in the form of a loan or credit, but that borrowed cash must be re-payed some how or "they" will collect by whatever means "they" can. Why do we hear that our consumer debt is a bad thing when the government seems to thrive on deficit spending?

It is way past time for both parties to stop trying to one-up each other and stop the bleeding. I am sure that could happen if they wanted it to, so what's stopping them? Is there some economical advantage to deficit spending and/or hiking up the debt? What is the DC crowd trying to accomplish?

Originally posted by AnonymousCitizen

Not trying to be confrontational, but there's a lot you just said that I don't agree with. Please don't take this as a personal attack. I look forward to hearing your point of view.

Starred your post for that alone.

Originally posted by AnonymousCitizen

The date we will hit the debt ceiling is actually able to be predicted quite accurately. There are some things the Treasury and Fed can do to push the date a few weeks in either direction, but the cash burn rate is very predictable.

The OP says "On Sept. 19th"...The Treasury Secretery said...AFTER Sept. 30th and BEFORE 2013
U.S. expected to hit debt ceiling before 2013, Geithner says

In testimony to the Senate Budget Committee on Thursday, Geithner said he expects that the debt ceiling will be hit after Sept. 30, the end of the fiscal year, but before the beginning of 2013.

Guessing when the country will hit the debt limit is an imprecise art. In addition, Congress has given the Treasury secretary a series of measures, such as using money in a special currency fund and postponing payments to civil pensions, to buy time if needed.

The odds of reaching the debt limit before the election are unknown, but Treasury officials have strongly suggested they’d invoke those extraordinary measures if that were to happen.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Originally posted by AnonymousCitizen
I think the GOP will try once again to make a spectacle with the debt ceiling. Not saying this is right, wrong, dumb, or smart, but it would be consistent with what's happened over and over.

I think they will try to avoid the spectacle cuz it has hurt them thus far, but you never know with them.

Originally posted by AnonymousCitizen

I disagree the the U.S. is recovering economically. Maybe we're not a bad off as the E.U. yet, but it's an argument over who is on fire the most. We are no longer headed toward the cliff, we have driven right off it. While the official unemployment rate shows about a 2% improvement, it's only because so many folks have been permanently removed from the labor statistics. The "employment" rate remains flat for the past couple years.

I hear this argument often and it is 75% BS. What they don't explain when they shout about and spin those that have "ceased" looking for work, is that it is always happening. People leave the workforce each year ...to retire, or they cut back and the spouse works...or both spouses were looking for work after one lost thier job...and one finds a job and the other ceases to look for work and stays at home. The biggest factor though is retirement, taking early pensions in a down economy etc. Start to slice those numbers out and the whole "people have given up" argument doesn't hold water.

Look at past years and what percentage of the workforce ceases working or looking for work volountarily. Common sense is that the vast majority of people don't stop looking for work unless they actually CAN stop looking for work.

Originally posted by AnonymousCitizen
The government has no right to "gamble" with our money. We have double-dipped, and are about to triple dip.

I'll end on a note of agreement...I am no fan of debt, either.

I strongly disagree there. The US Government should ONLY gamble on the American people, not Wall Street Bankers...and gambling on the American People is something it has done since the founders put thier lives on the line and signed the Declaration of Independance.

And Politics aside, we will not have a significant dip again...a smaller one than before? yes..shorter and brief...it is the way economies recover, but no second ful recession. The EU is at risk of a second full recession. Not political opinion...I follow economics for professional purposes.

I also think that Germanicus makes a great point, and to add, didn't Ian R Crane say that America should be looking at Greece, that it is the fate of the US being played out in real time?
I have the US debt clock, as well as the Irish one as bookmarks, and often show people.... some cannot believe it is moving! nevermind moving at the rate it is, and when you look at the level of derivatives on the US clock!

For those who haven't seen them:
www.usdebtclock.org...
www.financedublin.com...

And the world debt clock:
www.economist.com...
(move the tab along the bottom forward to 2012)

I expect you've seen them loads of times previous, my apologies if you have.
BTW, I live in Ireland, that's why I included the Irish one.

Originally posted by delrio256
It looks like the national news media is ignoring the ever-looming National Debt Crisis.

The National Debt is increasing at $4.68 billion per day.

At that rate, the debt ceiling ($16.394 trillion) will be reached on September 19, 2012.

That's 2 months before the election!

Woops! Obama wasn't planning on having to deal with this prior to the election.

Yes, the news media will ignore the $16 Trillion national debt, the high price of gas &

the high unemployment rate. We will instead be bombarded with - distractions -

like the bogus GOP War on Women.

That one won't work. They need something new.

Originally posted by Indigo5

The OP says "On Sept. 19th"...The Treasury Secretery said...AFTER Sept. 30th and BEFORE 2013
U.S. expected to hit debt ceiling before 2013, Geithner says

Guessing when the country will hit the debt limit is an imprecise art. In addition, Congress has given the Treasury secretary a series of measures, such as using money in a special currency fund and postponing payments to civil pensions, to buy time if needed.

Mr. Treasury Secretary is a habitual liar, incompetent, or most likely, both.

Originally posted by AnonymousCitizen

Originally posted by Indigo5

The OP says "On Sept. 19th"...The Treasury Secretery said...AFTER Sept. 30th and BEFORE 2013
U.S. expected to hit debt ceiling before 2013, Geithner says

Guessing when the country will hit the debt limit is an imprecise art. In addition, Congress has given the Treasury secretary a series of measures, such as using money in a special currency fund and postponing payments to civil pensions, to buy time if needed.

Mr. Treasury Secretary is a habitual liar, incompetent, or most likely, both.

Yes, Turbo Tax Cheat Timmy Geithner should resign.

All he has done is manage the decline of America.

i wonder if they figured in the fact that only 58% of working age Americans are working, or what that debt ceiling will look like when the dollar is no longer the world currency reserve. the absolute only thing that makes any sense, is that we are being led down a road to disintegrate America, dollar by dollar, for what reason i do not know.

Originally posted by LevelHeaded
What would be wrong with balancing the budget? I am not an accountant or economist but I know I have a finite amount of cash coming in and have to live within my means. I can borrow cash in the form of a loan or credit, but that borrowed cash must be re-payed some how or "they" will collect by whatever means "they" can. Why do we hear that our consumer debt is a bad thing when the government seems to thrive on deficit spending?

It is way past time for both parties to stop trying to one-up each other and stop the bleeding. I am sure that could happen if they wanted it to, so what's stopping them? Is there some economical advantage to deficit spending and/or hiking up the debt? What is the DC crowd trying to accomplish?

There are 2 things different between your household and the the US.
In your household there will be a time when your income will be lower (Old age) A country doesn't retire willingly
You can't print money, the US can.

Balanced Budget means Income=Expenses.
Or, a more honest way to put it would be Taxes=Gov. services provided.
a budget surplus means that the gov is actively removing money from circulation. Keeping more than it is putting back in. Good for a household, bad for a gov.
A budget deficit on the other hand means that it actively adds to the amount of money being spent.

After I did a bit of looking about, I found this interesting, thought I'd share:

2012poleshift.wetpaint.com...

Anything new there?