Holographic Universe?

I know that Eastern mysticism and Gnostic idealism have both held that this Universe is an illusion of sorts. Now, apparently, a modified and watered down form of that idea has made its way in to String Theory. I would like to begin a thread dedicated to a willingness to explore the conjecture that the Universe is not as solid as people think. I do not "believe" this doctrine because I do not believe in "believe." I am interested in exploring ideas.

Question 1: If we are in a hologram then does the hologram have an illusion conjurer?

Question 2: Given the assumptions of question one, why does this conjurer try to keep us in the illusion? Do the various conspiracies we discuss on this forum relate to the attempt to keep us from seeing that there is a conjurer?

Question 3: Are we in a Universe of natural selection and brutish competition in order to learn certain spiritual lessons before moving on? Is it our role to see through the matrix and to escape the conjurer?

Again, I am not a believer in this or in any other school of metaphysics that would have me as an adherent. I simply explore ideas.

Last question: Why does every philosophy brow-beaten in to man seem to teach that we are limited and finite? Georg Cantor discussed infinity but his views were first suppressed, and then taken over by Set Theorists who made them so rigorous as to be unapproachable by the common man. Why?

If you type "holographic" in the ats search engine you will find this topic to have been covered quite extensively over the past decade on this site allready.

here is the most mainstream public outlet on this topic

Originally posted by EarthEvolves
Question 1: If we are in a hologram then does the hologram have an illusion conjurer?

Hm, well, with questions like these, I like to take a solipsistic approach, as that seems the most 'logical' (even though it is a bit of a reduction ad absurdum). If we truly can't prove that anything exists outside of our own mind, then I would submit that our mind is the illusion conjurer. However, that would branch another question: Is our mind part of the illusion? And if so, how does the mind conjure the illusion of itself? We could say that the square root of the image of our own mind would still equate to our mind but that doesn't answer where the mind originally came from.

Originally posted by EarthEvolves
Question 2: Given the assumptions of question one, why does this conjurer try to keep us in the illusion? Do the various conspiracies we discuss on this forum relate to the attempt to keep us from seeing that there is a conjurer?

Perhaps it is the not actual conjurer that is keeping us trapped. In metapsychology, Freud defined the structural model of the human psyche to be a three-part apparatus. It consisted of the Id (uncoordinated instincts), the Ego (realistic and organized part of the mind), and the Super-Ego (critical and moralizing sector). Now, I am not sure on the validity of these definitions but I do think the mind is made up of "multiple-personas" (even if these are subconscious and non-apparent).

Many spiritual teachers, masters, and psychologist (ones that lean more towards New Age spiritual thinking) refer to the mind as having, at least, a true self and a false self. The true self would be the natural, womb-created mentality that you came into the illusion with, and the false self would be the one that empowers the concept of the illusion being reality.

I seem to be quoting Eckhart Tolle a lot lately but he seems to take the most laymen approach to it. The false "ego" is what would be considered a "living entity" (one without form of course) and cares about nothing other than its own survival. The stronger the ego becomes, the more you believe the illusion. The more you believe the illusion, the stronger the ego becomes. I won't go into much detail about this but hopefully you can understand where I am coming from. It is described as almost everyone being schizophrenic or having a dissociative identity disorder.

This only loops back to your first question: If the true self is free from the illusion, and the Ego creates the illusion. How was the ego and its illusion created? Did the true self create the illusion? And if we are free from the illusion and back to our true self, what happens to existence? Perhaps, we still live in the illusion we are just aware (internally) that it is, in fact, an illusion.

Some people suggest that we come into this world as our true self and then through suggestion by the rest of society, we develop the false sense of identification that is the Ego.

Originally posted by EarthEvolves
Question 3: Are we in a Universe of natural selection and brutish competition in order to learn certain spiritual lessons before moving on? Is it our role to see through the matrix and to escape the conjurer?

Personally, I think this is correct. We could possibly exist somewhere else on another dimension (a higher one perhaps) or another life and need to learn something. Something about ourselves, our own essence, soul, life. So, we are given the tools (or maybe already have them) to create an entire reality just for ourselves (perhaps others) where we can experience the cycle of life and death (not limited to one time) in an attempt to gain the knowledge we need.

Ultimately, I feel a little agnostic towards these ideas. I am not saying that it is impossible to know these things but I think to actually know and internalize them would erase the illusion that we are using to gain knowledge, possibly even before we are ready for the illusion to fall.

However, it is still much fun to theorize about these things, and for that.. I thank you.

First off, Michael Talbot wrote a beautiful book called The Holographic Universe

After examining the work of physicist David Bohm and neurophysiologist Karl Pribram, each of whom independently arrived at holographic theories or models of the universe, the book argues that a holographic model could possibly explain supersymmetry and also various paranormal and anomalous phenomena and is the basis for mystical experience.

He passed away only a year after the book was published. I highly recommend it to any inquiring mind. Unfortunately I gave it to a friend to read so I can't quote from it.

For those not aware of hologram science this site is short, sweet and covers the basics

As for your questions––

Originally posted by EarthEvolves
I do not "believe" this doctrine because I do not believe in "believe."

How can you not believe in belief? I can understand that to a degree, as I stopped "believing" in sickness and haven't been sick (flu, cold, whatever) in a few years. Do you believe we're living on a planet 3 from our star? That's a quandary I wish you would elaborate on...

Question 1: If we are in a hologram then does the hologram have an illusion conjurer?

If we are living in a holograph, the obvious answer would have to be yes, be it the quantum field, the Mind of God, whatever... The hologram is a part of the whole. Even if you snip the film to a tiny piece, it still contains the whole image in 3 dimensions. It's due to wave interference.

Talbot explains that it's perhaps our mind producing brain/consciousness waves which interfere with the source's wave, creating the reality that we see.

Question 2: Given the assumptions of question one, why does this conjurer try to keep us in the illusion? Do the various conspiracies we discuss on this forum relate to the attempt to keep us from seeing that there is a conjurer?

I think that no matter how hard we look we will never really "see" this conjurer. Just like the hologram of the cat will never be able to see the laser or the real cat in which it was modeled after. Not that we can't get close, like people accessing the Akashic Records, or experiencing nirvana and losing the ego to just melt into "oneness" with all

Question 3: Are we in a Universe of natural selection and brutish competition in order to learn certain spiritual lessons before moving on? Is it our role to see through the matrix and to escape the conjurer?

Another book I refer to frequently on ats is Michael Newton's Destiny of Souls, so to not be redundant, from his research I would have to say yes. We keep incarnating on this plane to "get it right". We're even given a preview of the life we are to have and the life changing choices that we'll have to make.

As for escaping the conjurer, if we are all a product of the conjurer, how can we ever escape it?

Last question: Why does every philosophy brow-beaten in to man seem to teach that we are limited and finite? Georg Cantor discussed infinity but his views were first suppressed, and then taken over by Set Theorists who made them so rigorous as to be unapproachable by the common man. Why?

I don't know much about Georg Cantor or his research, but I would go back to question 2 and say there is an attempt, nay, a success on limiting and suppressing the human animal. I think there is a fear instilled in the suppressors that if we really knew how to encompass the pinnacle of our potential that we would then be "uncontrollable" and they would be found out...

Your questions are very thought provoking and it took me a while to formulate a reasonable response. I'd like to hear your counter

How can you not believe in belief? I can understand that to a degree, as I stopped "believing" in sickness and haven't been sick (flu, cold, whatever) in a few years. Do you believe we're living on a planet 3 from our star? That's a quandary I wish you would elaborate on...

EarthEvolves: Actually, what I stated is that I do not believe in "believe." I did not say that I do not believe in "belief." There is a slight difference in meaning. It is a matter of emphasis and subtle difference. Of course I "believe" we are living on the third planet from our star. But, I do not believe in going on and on about how I believe it and how anyone who remains wedded to Aristotelian astronomy must be eugenicized out of the population or given psychiatric drugs without their consent. That is the limit of my belief in Copernicanism. Subtle difference, for sure, but a real one...

Originally posted by schlomo
Talbot explains that it's perhaps our mind producing brain/consciousness waves which interfere with the source's wave, creating the reality that we see.

Think that's really well said and might have a lot of truth to it. I was also thinking the same type of thing recently. Was thinking of us as individuals being particles and where we need to be being the wave, and that to get back to how things should be we should be able to freely move between the two, whereas at the moment we're kind of stuck as particles.

Sounds weird and surely can't be the real reality behind things, but was just thinking of it as an analogy.

Paranormalists often argue that phenomena like ghosts or bigfoot are "glitches" in the matrix. The movie Matrix parroted their claim.

I tend to think that most physicists who promote this theory stay clear from paranormalism but, then again, a few may secretly believe in it.

The reality we experience is a hologram, an analogy would be what was shown in film "The Matrix".
Concepts of "Consciousness", "Reality", "Holographic Universe", "Multiverse theory" are very much interrelated.

Link: www.crystalinks.com...

reply to post by EarthEvolves


Question 1: If we are in a hologram then does the hologram have an illusion conjurer?

-- Yes, he is known as the Master Craftsman, the Prince of Lies, the Slanderer, the Diabolos.

Question 2: Given the assumptions of question one, why does this conjurer try to keep us in the illusion? Do the various conspiracies we discuss on this forum relate to the attempt to keep us from seeing that there is a conjurer?

-- "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." Verbal Kint
It's all about energy transference, electromagnetism, and decoupling.

Question 3: Are we in a Universe of natural selection and brutish competition in order to learn certain spiritual lessons before moving on? Is it our role to see through the matrix and to escape the conjurer?

-- Our role is to serve the conjurer as holocausts. Our means of escape is Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by dohya
The reality we experience is a hologram, an analogy would be what was shown in film "The Matrix".
Concepts of "Consciousness", "Reality", "Holographic Universe", "Multiverse theory" are very much interrelated.

Link: www.crystalinks.com...

Definitely recommend watching these if you've not seen them yet and you're interested in science. Onto the third one now and have got well into it since partway through the 1st. Thanks for the link!

reply to post by 1nOne


Are you a Gnostic?

I want to share a lucid dream I had pertaining to this subject. This is only the 2nd time I can clearly remember being awake in my dream. It happened last week, I dreamed that there was a girl sitting at a table with about 7 or 8 people surrounding the table. She was telling them things that are going on in her life and they are talking back to her. I heard everything they said but now that I'm awake I can't remember anything except what I'm telling you. I remember her saying "Ok, ok, ok...everything is ok and I'll just go back and continue living in this LIE.." When the girl said "lie" she started with these absolute heart wrenching sobs. Crying like I have never seen anyone cry before. This was the crying of utmost pain. At that moment I realized that I was awake in my dream because I began to feel the deep, deep pain of the girl sitting at the table. I can still feel it now when I look back on it and I felt it the whole day after I woke up. When the girl started to cry the people that were around the table closed in on her, surrounding her in a circle. She stopped crying and along with the girl's pain I could feel the great love of the people around her. It was this intense roller coaster of deep emotions that woke me up in my dream. I realized while still sleeping that I am awake and watching this. I didn't panic like the first time it happened I just continued watching, infatuated with what the girl was saying, the others responses to her and then her emotional breakdown.

I woke up soon after I realized I was awake in my dream. I remembered everything at first but before I could even get up I had forgotten what the girl said to the people and their advice back to her. One thing I was surprised about though was that I had a knowing upon awakening that the girl at the table was ME. I didn't come to this assumption because the girl could have looked like me in facial structure but she had black hair and mine is brown and she had skin about a shade lighter than mine. I never thought that was me when I was awake in my dream, I just thought it was a girl in deep pain with people giving her advice on how to get through.

My point is, we could be in some kind of holographic universe where we come here for our own unique learning experiences. The weirdness of lucid dreaming has led me to believe, without a doubt, that we travel during sleep. I believe our dreams are NOT what we have been led to believe they are. Maybe in our dreams we meet up with our creator and others who love us and they help us make it through whatever is bothering us at the time. Regardless of anyone's religious belief this could certainly be a holographic universe in my honest opinion. That does not make it any less important that we attempt to do the right thing as much as possible.

It is not exactly true that in Quantum Physics "consciousness determines reality." It is measurement that determines realit y if we simply proceed according to the orthodox science. However, consciousness DOES determine how we measure. If consciousness were simply the brain, then consciousness would be the measer-ED and not the measur-ER. There seems to be a discrepancy between Physics and Neuroscience, even though most Physicists like Krause tend to be atheists and not see the discrepancy as any big deal. A minority of scientists consider "The Matrix" a possibility. Oddly, some of them are Kurzweillians like Nick Bostrom who believe in the Singularity concept.

Does anyone believe that the conspiracies people focus on in this forum are hooked in with entities that have power over the Matrix? I kind of wonder about Bostrom and the transhumanists!