Torching the Bill of Rights: Preparing for a Failed State?

I participated in two threads recently, one regarding Search and Seizure legislation, and one about the merging of the two largest Central American drug cartels into a unified force. It got me thinking about why there is a trend toward erosion of due process and civil rights.

Well, there's the astronomical number of economically displaced US citizens, many among them being poorly reintegrated vets. The black market is already ballooning, and there is concern that US-based groups are adopting the Zeta model for their operations.

In addition, it doesn't appear that the sitch is about to improve any time soon. We are headed toward the iceberg, and no one in a position to do so is changing our course.

So, while the recent rash of Draconian legislation, the outfitting of local law enforcement w/ military grade toys, the detention centers, and etc. doesn't compute just now; it may be that our government is battening down the hatches to weather a failed state situation.

I'd even be open to the idea that racial tensions are being aggravated to provide pretext for further legislation that blurs the line between civilian and criminal. You know, to streamline things when there comes a point that a large percentage of the population is participating in the black market; that being an inevitability once the welfare aquifers dry up.

Whaddaya think, ATS?

I think your deadly accurate in your observations.... As a vet I've seen this coming over the last decade since 9/11

We are all criminals to some extent or another. The richest of the rich down to the poorest of the poor. The simple fact is that legislation had to be written for everybody who is offended by somebody else's use of freedom. If the "majority" is offended by an action then the action is outlawed. "Majority" doesn't imply larger numbers, just larger influence.

If the "majority" and their wishes happen to reflect the intention of our dictocrasy, you can bet that legislation will be doubly swift.

They really don't have to blur the lines between citizen and criminal, everybody is a criminal no matter how slight if you dig deep enough.

All these changes to our guaranteed rights and civil liberties reminds me of the "boiling frog" concept.

Put a frog in boiling water and it immediately jumps out.

Put a frog in cool water and slowly bring it to a boil and the frog will stay in the water and be boiled to death.

If all of these changes were to occur at once, the American people wouldn't stand for it.

Do them piece-meal and sprinkle in some American Idol and Dancing With the Stars and voila!

You've got yourself a police state.

reply to post by Bobaganoosh


Huh. I don't litter or pirate media or text while driving or any of the petty offences I believe you are referencing when you declare that every citizen is a criminal. But even if I did, I still don't see why it warrants crippling due process if I am suspected of any offence, great or small.

Unless you are anticipating having to deal with an overwhelming number of dangerous criminals, and can't afford the time or funds needed to get the job done in a way that honors justice.

reply to post by Hessling


I don't see how this process has been incremental at all.

To me, it appears to have snow-balled since 2007. And I think even the least informed among us are aware of the increase in temperature.

Originally posted by Eidolon23
reply to post by Hessling

 

I don't see how this process has been incremental at all.

To me, it appears to have snow-balled since 2007. And I think even the least informed among us are aware of the increase in temperature.

I truly believe its been long a slow build up going on for years. When 9/11 occured, the burner got turned onto "full blast".

Can you imagine trying to pass all the anti-terrorism legislation in one bill?

I regret that I disagree about the least informed being aware. When I talk to most friends about these matters they seem interested. For about two minutes. Then it seems to get forgotten.

Wish it were otherwise. Just my thoughts.

reply to post by Eidolon23


Our country has not (in my opinion) honored justice in decades. Due process is a joke. I served on a jury, I wasn't convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt as to the man's guilt. But it doesn't work like the movies. I and one other juror were the closest thing to "peers" on the jury.

Is this a reason to do away with it? No it isn't. It needs to be repaired and not discarded.

As to everybody being a criminal, petty offense or grandiose, I am just saying that we can't walk through this crumbling nation without "stepping on a crack". The difference between criminals and citizens here in the US is the citizens have yet to be caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I'm not saying that our prisons are full of misunderstood regular people, but I will say that a considerable slice of that pie hasn't done a crime to fit the punishment.

Not trying to tarnish your self image.. Just stating that mine is blemished.

Originally posted by Eidolon23
I participated in two threads recently, one regarding Search and Seizure legislation, and one about the merging of the two largest Central American drug cartels into a unified force. It got me thinking about why there is a trend toward erosion of due process and civil rights.

Well, there's the astronomical number of economically displaced US citizens, many among them being poorly reintegrated vets. The black market is already ballooning, and there is concern that US-based groups are adopting the Zeta model for their operations.

In addition, it doesn't appear that the sitch is about to improve any time soon. We are headed toward the iceberg, and no one in a position to do so is changing our course.

So, while the recent rash of Draconian legislation, the outfitting of local law enforcement w/ military grade toys, the detention centers, and etc. doesn't compute just now; it may be that our government is battening down the hatches to weather a failed state situation.

I'd even be open to the idea that racial tensions are being aggravated to provide pretext for further legislation that blurs the line between civilian and criminal. You know, to streamline things when there comes a point that a large percentage of the population is participating in the black market; that being an inevitability once the welfare aquifers dry up.

Whaddaya think, ATS?

edit on 9-4-2012 by Eidolon23 because: ?

This is what I think:

I believe you are an intelligent person OP...well trained in your craft.

i suspected that last summer during the Anthony trial that the actual goal of the people joined together for the purpose of destroying the United States involved direct attacks upon the Constitution.

In the case of Anthony, it involved an attack upon the 5th Amendment of the Constitution, specifically Double Jeopardy. This was brushed aside...no major issue.

In this thread...you've identified a possible trend in which our 4th Amendment may be attacked by forces hostile to the American way of life...

I suppose i was being a bit facetious when i called you an intelligent person, but at least you will receive a great deal of support among our fellow members here at ATS.

what I think is this...people who are actually defending the Constitution of the United States are categorizing events, which by the estimation of most are deliberate attacks upon the Constitution, according to how they affect the Constitution and as dedicated professionals...they make decisions that protect the Constitution as opposed to decisions that are socially popular.

so, it should make you happy to know that these people, such as Zeta's whatever that is, will successfully commit their crimes and various atrocities upon the people of the United States until they slip up in the most minor way.

There is no telling what will happen to them the moment they act in a manner which would justify deadly force.

reply to post by Hessling


That is a shame. Perhaps it's a regional thing. I'm in the NE, and there is a high level of awareness and active discussion here. Perhaps it's more of an ostrich/sand phenom rather than ignorance. The frog squinching up its eyes and muttering, "I don't believe in boiling water." Even though on some level it is aware of being cooked.

Also, it seems to me that the Patriot Act was a sincere (and totally misguided) effort toward rectifying domestic security gaps. But the post-depression legislation that is aimed toward the US citizen, while predicated on post-911 changes, is really aimed toward containing the impending meltdown. Which I don't think many people, and certainly not our law-makers, saw coming.

In other words, the groundwork laid after 911 serves as a convenient foundation for the legislation that has been developed around the recent crises, but was not part of a long-term scheme.

Yes, this is a failed state. It has failed because we did not adhere to the principles set forth in the constitution. We allowed the federal government to become a rogue monster, we allowed state's rights to be eroded down to nothing, we gave corporations individual status, but allowed them to break the law without punishment, and we gave away our ability to print our own money to a private cabal of criminals who have no loyalty to the United States. We're giving our rights away so that we can feel "safe", never knowing who the real monsters are.

The fact that most people aren't aware of this is because the media does a really good job fooling people, telling them that there are more jobs, and we are in a "recovery". They sell us wars and prejudice and fear, at the same time telling us that it's all good and there's nothing to worry about.

The fact is, we're stone broke, and the federal reserve is buying up the majority of US debt. Historically speaking, wars have been foisted upon us with some false flag excuse, so that we are distracted from the obvious economic disastser. The military-industrial complex feeds on war. Unfortunately, we have been "at war" for 9 years now, so if they're going to pull a hat trick to keep Americans from melting down, it's going to have to be really big, such as an all out world war complete with nuclear strikes....Perhaps throw in a global pandemic for good measure....

Oh, and those FEMA camps? They're for the survivors. JMOHO.

I really hate to say this, but the seeds of our demise were written into the Constitution by the loose wording. Many people at the time of its writing feared where it would lead but none so much as the Anti-Federalists. The first line from the Anti-Federalist Papers reads:

Antifederalist No. 1 GENERAL INTRODUCTION: A DANGEROUS PLAN OF BENEFIT ONLY TO THE "ARISTOCRATICK COMBINATION"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From The Boston Gazette and Country Journal, November 26, 1787.

www.wepin.com...

It just took a very long time to get where we are today.

Originally posted by michaelbrux

This is what I think:

I believe you are an intelligent person OP...well trained in your craft.

I am an unpaid dilettante. I wouldn't have it any other way.

I suppose i was being a bit facetious when i called you an intelligent person, but at least you will receive a great deal of support among our fellow members here at ATS.

Sheesh. For someone who can't string two coherent sentences together, you sure are punchy.

so, it should make you happy to know that these people, such as Zeta's whatever that is, will successfully commit their crimes and various atrocities upon the people of the United States until they slip up in the most minor way.

Get schooled, dude.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That's as good a starting point as any.

There is no telling what will happen to them the moment they act in a manner which would justify deadly force.

Uh, I'm sure we can put a fairly accurate scenario together for what would happen if a multinational criminal army decided to mix it up with the FEDs on American soil.

Originally posted by Eidolon23

Originally posted by michaelbrux

This is what I think:

I believe you are an intelligent person OP...well trained in your craft.

I am an unpaid dilettante. I wouldn't have it any other way.

I suppose i was being a bit facetious when i called you an intelligent person, but at least you will receive a great deal of support among our fellow members here at ATS.

Sheesh. For someone who can't string two coherent sentences together, you sure are punchy.

so, it should make you happy to know that these people, such as Zeta's whatever that is, will successfully commit their crimes and various atrocities upon the people of the United States until they slip up in the most minor way.

Get schooled, dude.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That's as good a starting point as any.

There is no telling what will happen to them the moment they act in a manner which would justify deadly force.

Uh, I'm sure we can put a fairly accurate scenario together for what would happen if a multinational criminal army decided to mix it up with the FEDs.

First: I am punchy...its my way of life.

Second: Schooled???? the United States Military has 8000 nuclear warheads...your drug cartels are not a threat to us.

Third: At least everyone knows...then the game is considered fair play.

and as far as the nuclear response is concerned...it'll be self defense...sort of like in the George Zimmerman case.

Originally posted by michaelbrux


Second: Schooled???? the United States Military has 8000 nuclear warheads...your drug cartels are not a threat to us.

Yes, let's call in nuclear strikes on our own soil, against our own population. Brilliant.

Also, they are not my drug cartels. And you know what? Some of us are pretty convinced that Black Globalization (not a racial term, guys, click the link) is a pretty hefty threat to our nation.

Like I said, dude. School yourself before you go popping off at the mouth.

Further reading, from back when I was posting as an anthropomorphic chimp:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Eidolon23

Originally posted by michaelbrux


Second: Schooled???? the United States Military has 8000 nuclear warheads...your drug cartels are not a threat to us.

Yes, let's call in nuclear strikes on our own soil, against our own population. Brilliant.

Also, they are not my drug cartels. And you know what? Some of us are pretty convinced that Black Globalization (not a racial term, guys, click the link) is a pretty hefty threat to our nation.

Like I said, dude. School yourself before you go popping off at the mouth.

Further reading, from back when I was posting as an anthropomorphic chimp:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 9-4-2012 by Eidolon23 because:

not worried about your black markets.....until they are manufacturing housing, automobiles, washing machines, dishwashers, refrigerators...etc. etc. that's what people want...not bootleg fashion and electronics...

as far as school...had more than you'll ever see.

and the nuclear strikes won't happen on our own soil...but it's good to know that's all you were worried about.

Originally posted by michaelbrux

Second: Schooled???? the United States Military has 8000 nuclear warheads...your drug cartels are not a threat to us.

I'll bet somebody's drug cartels are a threat to us. Think biological and chemical weapons.

Originally posted by michaelbrux

not worried about your black markets.....until they are manufacturing housing, automobiles, washing machines, dishwashers, refrigerators...etc. etc. that's what people want...not bootleg fashion and electronics...

I updated the link to provide a more recent perspective, and one that touches on US national security.

globalguerrillas.typepad.com...

as far as school...had more than you'll ever see.

It doesn't show. Your prose is a trainwreck, you take huge leaps in reasoning without bothering to fill the reader in on the missing steps, and you haven't made a single relevant point since you stumbled into this thread.

and the nuclear strikes won't happen on our own soil...but it's good to know that's all you were worried about.

You are the one who introduced the ridiculous notion that widespread criminal activity in a failed state could be dealt with through nukes.

Anyway, thanks for driving the reply count up, I guess. And this marks the last time I will engage with your nonsense.

reply to post by frazzle


Boom.

Now that's what I'm talking about. There's a good reason to worry.