Ron Paul and Abortion " My thoughts" Please contribute

reply to post by igor_ats


How is late term abortion used to save a woman's life?
Oh yeah, it's an arbitrary argument that she will suffer mental trauma if she delivers the child.
Partial birth abortion is extremely dangerous for the woman, more than natural delivery in that the child has to be turned "breach" to come out and allow the instruments into its brain!

reply to post by yoyoyoyo


I'm sorry to say this doll, but every woman I have been with stands firm if she gets pregnant before she wants to she will abort. All the female friends I have are the same way, they will absolutely not have a child if they are not ready, it will be their choice when and with who, and I commend them for that. It takes a lot of guts to do this, I personally have been in a relationship where a pregnancy occurred and was pro life. Her mother not so much, she didn't want to see us lose our lives, chances at school, having full happy lives because her daughter was head over heels and thought she should stop taking her birth control so we would be together forever. Have you ever thought of this situation ? I was head over heels for my girl, how ever later on I learned she cheated on me constantly, used drugs, stole from me, my family and her family. Horrible relationship, abusive terrible relationship. Took me 4 and a half years to get out of it. Cigarette burns, kicking, punching, slapping cutting the works. Women can be #ing terrible people, and I would have been stuck with that. Really, so my oppinion changed. Circumstance is everything, as a last choice, in instances of abuse, rape or illness Abortion is 100% acceptable and I proudly promote a woman's choice. It's HER body, It's HER life, It's HER CHOICE !

reply to post by Achey


But we are talking about contraception, if you follow the train of thought that at the moment of fertilization , the embryo deserves legal rights. In the last year and a half , more laws have been proposed than in history , targeting contraception and abortions even to save the mother. I even read a proposed law that tried to make it illegal for pregnant woman to ride go carts, and other proposed legislation to have miscarriages criminally investigated.

If we don't have this conversation about what stage we consider an embryo deserving of legal rights and we don't define what exactly these legal rights are, I see about 80% of woman who use hormone contraceptives finding themselves very shocked to find they are left with little to no options because "fertilization " has become the defining moment of procured rights.

This is why it's imperative that we have an open discussion and paint a picture of what, in reality this "moment of fertilization" concept will look like.

reply to post by Ilyich


All of what you went through and propose that the baby might go through, is against the law.
There are lots of "what if"s. My last child was NOT convenient as my husband was EXTREMELY abusive and I left him with a restraining order and he went to jail. When he got off drugs (ice) we reunited and I actually violated the restraining order to see him and still didnt know if he was truly sane. Was TERRIFIED when I got pregnant again.
I'm in my 4th semester in college, but first and foremost; I was the best mother I could be.

Originally posted by paleorchid13
reply to post by Achey

 

But we are talking about contraception, if you follow the train of thought that at the moment of fertilization , the embryo deserves legal rights. In the last year and a half , more laws have been proposed than in history , targeting contraception and abortions even to save the mother. I even read a proposed law that tried to make it illegal for pregnant woman to ride go carts, and other proposed legislation to have miscarriages criminally investigated.

If we don't have this conversation about what stage we consider an embryo deserving of legal rights and we don't define what exactly these legal rights are, I see about 80% of woman who use hormone contraceptives finding themselves very shocked to find they are left with little to no options because "fertilization " has become the defining moment of procured rights.

This is why it's imperative that we have an open discussion and paint a picture of what, in reality this "moment of fertilization" concept will look like.

Yep! Exactly this ^^

Also, who is going to take all these unwanted children, after their mother's who don't want them give them up for adoption. So many religious people with such strict views on abortion, and other personal bias', will they allow gay adoption, ergo, gay marriage.

If all these abortions suddenly stop, foster care will overload and Catholic orphanages will have a dream come true!

reply to post by windword

Don't you think that the problem with adoption is the red tape that prospective parents go through and that's why it takes so long, with so few children being adopted at the rate that's needed?

reply to post by Clearskies


First of all, if all abortions were halted the influx us children entering the system would be overwhelming. Secondly, Health and Welfare and Human Services can't handle their foster child now!

Next is the corruption of the adoption system with bribes and actual purchasing of children, and paying women to have children.

We, as a society, as far from ready to eliminate abortions, but a good place to start is with reversible vascectomies for all boys when they reach puberty. en.wikipedia.org...

After all, there is only one way a woman can be impregnated (naturally), and that's old fashion hetero male penetration and ejaculation. You want to nip it in the bud, there you go!

reply to post by yoyoyoyo


Ummmm. Contraception is used to keep conception from happening...

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Clearskies

 

First of all, if all abortions were halted the influx us children entering the system would be overwhelming. Secondly, Health and Welfare and Human Services can't handle their foster child now!

Agreed. Some people are stupid.

Next is the corruption of the adoption system with bribes and actual purchasing of children, and paying women to have children.

Agreed also. People want to pick their favorite "types" of children to adopt a lot of the time.
But I have known (non-pedophilic )Christians (with money) who adopted problem children with RAD, Autism, physical disabilities, etc.. and they adopted a LOT of children. I would if I wasn't poor and in college.

... a good place to start is with reversible vascectomies for all boys when they reach puberty. en.wikipedia.org...
After all, there is only one way a woman can be impregnated (naturally), and that's old fashion hetero male penetration and ejaculation. You want to nip it in the bud, there you go!

The depo-provera shot worked for me. I wasn't even poisoned (or rendered infertile) with it, Thank G-d!

Originally posted by paleorchid13
reply to post by Achey

 

But we are talking about contraception

edit on 9-4-2012 by paleorchid13 because: (no reason given)

The subject of this thread is Ron Pauls views on Abortion, stay on topic. Stop changing the subject.

Originally posted by Clearskies

reply to post by Clearskies

 

The depo-provera shot worked for me. I wasn't even poisoned (or rendered infertile) with it, Thank G-d

Great! What would you give a 14 year old daughter. Girls get infatuated and boys have lines. "You can't pregnant the first time, in the shower, the pool. Bare back feels so much better, baby don't you want me to be happy? I love you, we would make beautiful babies!"

I say snip the boys!

reply to post by windword


I have all boys. I would totally avoid ANY surgery for them. They also know (my eldest two), that if their girlfriend ever got pregnant, they would be prepared for marriage-case closed. People are so stupid and sleep with people who aren't good enough (in their mind) to marry! None of my boys have dated yet, oldest is 14.
The world is in bad shape and so many children shouldn't have to come here and be abused by Big Brother, anymore. I am steering my children to ways that they can be successful AND help our communities. Dating is hopefully not going to be their greatest pursuit in life, like it was mine. (and actually i wouldn't call my teen relationships "dating", but friends with benefits.)

reply to post by Achey


um, okay . I believe the OP raised about 7 or 8 different questions regarding their own beliefs on abortion and invited people to come and discuss this as well as the opening Ron Paul article. The Paul article was only one small part of the entire query.

reply to post by Clearskies


Best of luck with that. Hope your boys take heed and have wonderful productive lives, and someday give you grandchildren.

My step daughter was pregnant at 14. Child Protective Services provided her with an abortion, no consent was asked for or required. At 16, she was a mother.

Also, who is going to take all these unwanted children, after their mother's who don't want them give them up for adoption. So many religious people with such strict views on abortion, and other personal bias', will they allow gay adoption, ergo, gay marriage. If all these abortions suddenly stop, foster care will overload and Catholic orphanages will have a dream come true!

reply to post by windword


Foster programs and social services are the first programs to usually get funds cut. I know how rampant child abuse already is in the foster care system . This won't change anything , it will just turn into a new crusade to punish women who give their children up for adoption while calling them garbage and fussing about the rising costs of social programs. If it gets too clogged up you will definitely hear that woman no longer have that option to give up for adoption "request denied" , or "I'm sorry , the orphanage is full " .

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Clearskies

 

First of all, if all abortions were halted the influx us children entering the system would be overwhelming.

Possibly, however women using abortion as a form of contraception would vanish rapidly, maybe after their first baby and their sudden reality check.

Secondly, Health and Welfare and Human Services can't handle their foster child now!

Next is the corruption of the adoption system with bribes and actual purchasing of children, and paying women to have children.

Once again, i agree. This is a separate issue, corruption within the system. I think the cost of adoption is corrupt and criminal. The criteria for granting adoptions ridiculous. Eliminate the corruption and cost, solve the problem. My sister paid $20k and had to wait 5 years to adopt. Meanwhile to import a baby from India or China would have been $5k and a 2 year wait.

I'm sure Ron Paul would be all for elimination corruption and cost!

We, as a society, as far from ready to eliminate abortions, but a good place to start is with reversible vascectomies for all boys when they reach puberty. en.wikipedia.org...

After all, there is only one way a woman can be impregnated (naturally), and that's old fashion hetero male penetration and ejaculation. You want to nip it in the bud, there you go!

Appalling statement. You call yourself a writer, who pays your salary?

reply to post by Achey

Appalling statement. You call yourself a writer, who pays your salary?

ATS calls me a writer, I won the title.

You must be a male. Don't want your boys snipped? But don't mind punishing a woman with 10 months of pregnancy, the pain and possible complications of labor, and the after math, not to mention the financial expense. But your boys just walk away. Insulting!

I wouldn't think the snip would be much worse than getting an IUD implanted and experiencing 1 month of menstruation, bleeding and cramping.

Ultimately, it's the male that gets the girl pregnant. Go to source. SNIP SNIP!

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Achey

 

Appalling statement. You call yourself a writer, who pays your salary?

ATS calls me a writer, I won the title.

You must be a male. Don't want your boys snipped? But don't mind punishing a woman with 10 months of pregnancy, the pain and possible complications of labor, and the after math, not to mention the financial expense. But your boys just walk away. Insulting!

I wouldn't think the snip would be much worse than getting an IUD implanted and experiencing 1 month of menstruation, bleeding and cramping.

Ultimately, it's the male that gets the girl pregnant. Go to source. SNIP SNIP!

A skilled troll again, hijaaking a thread and changing the subject from abortion to operations on children in an effort to divide us via our sex. When left/right doesnt work, try Male/Female. Whats next?

We are living in an age, where women get away with anything. A woman can come forward and claim you raped her, and you'll have every agency over you like maggots on a magpie.

Of course it's murder ... and a morning after pill is not a viable option. A woman, just like a man, should take responsibility for her actions. With modern knowledge, a woman should know her body.

That said, there are women and "men" out there with no more sense than an animal. Maybe an abortion is a good thing, because ... do we really want their children into this world? Don't have enough dumb morons walking around, already?

reply to post by windword

Ultimately, it's the male that gets the girl pregnant. Go to source. SNIP SNIP!

Thats BS. Both are responsible. So why not also tie the tubes of all girls? Also reversible.

And yes, in an ideal world, reproduction would be controlled and allowed only for those who are materially and mentally ready. But we live in a real world, and I dont think any large-scale sterilisations are acceptable.