SOCIAL: "The Wasted Vote Disease"

Originally posted by wraith30
I do have question for some third party voters.. how many of you are voting for a third party for the soal reason of hating the 2 party system? I know a number who are doing jsut that. Wouldent you say that is just as bad as voting for the lesser of two?Wraith

Yes, thats why I don't agree with people who do that... No matter what their party affiliate is.

When I learned of the libertarian party I read up on it, I researched them, I wanted to know more and more thats how passionate I was about them, and still am, which is why i'm donating money, and also dispersing brochures door to door, so far i've dispersed 1500 in my community, I'm proud i'm a paying member and i'm proud to support someone who believes in the people of this country and not in the way where he thinks he should take care of them like the other two believe... Honestly.... I'm in love.

I think the Libertarians offer what this country needs more then the big two. I firmly believe that and have for quite some time now. I wouldn't vote for either of them if their was no Libertarian candidate, my vote has been stolen from, or wasted on, no one.

I don't vote solely down party lines though...I have absolutely no problem voting for a Democrat or Republican for local or state government as long as I know the job they're doing is a good one. If a Republican candidate held the ideals the Republican Party supposedly had, I'd think about voting for him. I don't have that option this year.

Originally posted by Amuk
I must admit I have mopre respect for someone who votes Dem or Rep because they BELIEVE in what they say than those who are voting "the lesser of two evils"

I couldn't agree with that more. I love reading well thought out posts by both Democrats and Republicans. On the other hand I can't stand reading posts by people that have no idea what their candidate stands for just that he's their guy.

Originally posted by Wraith
See, thats the problem.. I think people are in fact that dumb. Not a plesent thought, but to be compleatly honest the majority of people in our country are either unwilling or simply unable to produce a well informed insightfull thought of their own.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. I tend to give people more credit then that.

Originally posted by Wraith
"A few Clear cut leaders will always raise tot he top." Your right and that is precicely what has happened to turn our nation into a 2 party system.

Not exactly. The two parties have made it very hard for other parties to make in-roads. Difficulty getting on the ballot in some states and being shut out of debates are two glaring examples of this. Another example would be the fact that O'Reilly wouldn't let someone on the show if they said they were voting for Badnarik. The LP has been basically shut out of the media because of an edict directing them to. This isn't an example of letting the cream rise to the top, it's an example of valid candidates being suppressed for the sake of the Dem's and Rep's.

Originally posted by PistolPete

Originally posted by Wraith
See, thats the problem.. I think people are in fact that dumb. Not a plesent thought, but to be compleatly honest the majority of people in our country are either unwilling or simply unable to produce a well informed insightfull thought of their own.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. I tend to give people more credit then that.

Originally posted by Wraith
"A few Clear cut leaders will always raise tot he top." Your right and that is precicely what has happened to turn our nation into a 2 party system.

Not exactly. The two parties have made it very hard for other parties to make in-roads. Difficulty getting on the ballot in some states and being shut out of debates are two glaring examples of this. Another example would be the fact that O'Reilly wouldn't let someone on the show if they said they were voting for Badnarik. The LP has been basically shut out of the media because of an edict directing them to. This isn't an example of letting the cream rise to the top, it's an example of valid candidates being suppressed for the sake of the Dem's and Rep's.

Agreeign to disagree.. absoluty.. though i guess I jsut waited tables for too many years. I am convinced that waiting tables creates misanthropes in our society.

As for not letting cream rise to the top and suppression. Thing is, that is human nature, that is the way we are. If you even look at simply small communities or hunter gatherer societies it is the strongest that leads not just because they are the strongest but because they let everyone know that they are in a system of suppression. I am not saying that it is right just that it is the way of things. That has changed from weekly ass kickings from the tribal leader to the modern equivilant through the media and manipulation of law.

The only society that I am awair of that has broken this basic nature of man is certain tribes of Native Americans who praised wisdom over strength.

The inherant problem in a multi party sistem is not the idea. It is not the philosophy of multible ideals and options, the problem is in the nature of people and the way we think about compitition, leadership, and orginization. it is inherant that we as a society break down groups to a final 2 to discover the single best solution. Again I am not saying that this is right.. just that it is true. Our society is not designed to accept multible parties. I am not trying to get any of you to throw away your beliefs or anythign like that.. I am jsut wondering if anyone else thinks this way about the innate tendencies of mankind?

Wraith

The first party I ever signed up with was the Libertarians.

My senior year of high school, we had a teacher named Mr Bebe. He was our govornment and economics teacher, and his enthusiasm and charism caused me to be bitten by the political bug. He activiely encouraged us to form views on the issues, and went into detail about the various parties, including the third. When I told him about my own views, he suggested I look into and research the Libertarian party. I did so, and when I turned 18 (was 17 when my senior year started) I registered as Libertarian.

Today I am registered as independant. I always vote third party still, almost always as a Libertarian. I do not hold all Libertarian views, but a few I am very adamant about, and generally, my support leans towards them. This election I plan on voting for Badnarik, because Bush needs to go, and Kerry and his "global test" scares me. I like Mr Badnarik better than those two, and would be very pleased to see him as president.

To me, a wasted vote is one for Kerry or Bush on the basis of choosing between the lesser of evils. Now THAT is a sad waste, if America has been crippled to such a choice.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
To me, a wasted vote is one for Kerry or Bush on the basis of choosing between the lesser of evils. Now THAT is a sad waste, if America has been crippled to such a choice.

I agree, well said. I know that by voting third party my candidate will probably not win, but I hope to see them gain ground. If people see in the results that third parties are growing, maybe they will start voting for them in the future. Hopefully someday *every* vote will count.

Originally posted by Cercey
Hopefully someday *every* vote will count.

EVERY vote does count. Every vote has counted for the last 230 years.

I'm a republican, but i respect every voter, democrat or independent, as long as they stand firmly behind one canidate or the other. If you can tell me why you like your canidate/party and you believe it, all the power to you. That's why this country is so great. There's no such thing as a wasted vote. Just be grateful that you can go out and help to choose your leaders, becuase some people would and are killing for that right. I love being an American.

Wraith: you're probably correct on your assumptions that human nature wants to break problems down into two simple choices. I guess I want to buck that trend.

It's a shame that out of 280 million people the major parties can't find two that people can get excited about and vote for because they like what they say, not because they're the slightly better choice of the two.

I'm really surprised at all of this discussion, me included. This really should be a non-issue considering the way voter turnout has been going.

Leads me to think "Why would that even be a topic of conversation?". With all those who don't vote, you'd be hard pressed to get them involved considering the fast food, reality tv crowd that's developed. But who would start this, because it's not helpful in getting people to vote, but it certainly detracts from the real problem.

The only solution I can think of, is that either

1) The parties are so desperate to get the voters, that they have been pushing their people into putting pressure on people and a small culture has developed around it, creating the "Wasted Vote Disease" idea.

or

2) They manufactured it to curb as many voter towards them to keep them down, and the revenue/power in their pockets.

I think it's #2 which forced #1 myself, but at that point there would be no reason to vote in the first place because we are already taken over.

Originally posted by PistolPete
Wraith: you're probably correct on your assumptions that human nature wants to break problems down into two simple choices. I guess I want to buck that trend.

It's a shame that out of 280 million people the major parties can't find two that people can get excited about and vote for because they like what they say, not because they're the slightly better choice of the two.

Absolutly and I salute you for standing up for what you believe. Perhaps I am just a jaded, bitter, prick but I don't think it will happen at least not untill we manage to change the basic core of the House and the Senate. It must begin there, if third party votes start translating into more third party representation in the house and the senate then.. and only then will a third and fourth party system be viable in this country.

Wraith