The Original Sin Is God's Fault But people Don't Blame Him!

I personally find that there are many problems with the story of the original sin. The story goes like this:

God made Adam, then made Eve, then put the Tree Of knowledge in the garden of Eden and told them never to eat of it.

Satan, or Lucifier or whoever tempted Eve and she ate of the fruit then Adam ate of the fruit and they were expelled from the garden.

But you see, there's one big thing that people miss entirely.

God put the tree in there in the first place.

It seems to me that if God didn't want us to disobey him, wouldn't it be far easier just to not have the tree in there in the first place?

If he hadn't had put it in there, there'd never be any doubt to the existence at all and we would all be following his edicts today.

We are supposed to blindly follow him and obey him.

If he didn't put that tree in there, it seems to me that we would.

Do you really think a serpent talked
Did God created the known universe in SIX DAYS.
Maybe its a metaphor.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


Unless it's all a metaphor.
Have you ever heard the theory that Satan tempted Eve with sex rather than an actual fruit and then Eve tempted Adam also with sex? It says they ate fruit from the tree of knowledge but then it also say's that God cast them out saying go forth and be fruitful.

Maybe it wasn't a tree of knowledge but the act of carnal knowledge. Maybe God didn't want them multiplying.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


Most Ignorant ATS thread award goes to you!!! So if your father tells you not to jump off the cliff you will do it anyway and then blame him for taking you there. Really, take your God hating post elsewhere.

Originally posted by mikeprodigy
Do you really think a serpent talked
Did God created the known universe in SIX DAYS.
Maybe its a metaphor.

edit on 6-4-2012 by mikeprodigy because: (no reason given)

The Serpent was a mistranslation, the real ancient Hebrew text says "the shining one" ! The shining one was Lucifer's name when he was a Divine Watcher not ever an Angel, another mistranslation.

Watch this and you will learn a lot, this guy knows more about the original text than anyone today and shows how man has twisted Gods words conveniently to hide the history and also what is happening today. He has a PHD in all the old languages.
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


He supposedly put it there to "test our faith."

Seems to me he was testing his own faith in his own creation by creating temptation as well.

Doesn't sound too sure of himself does he.

That Bible is full of discrepancies. One is that the Ten Commandments states "Thou Shalt Not Kill." That was in the New Testament. In the Old Testament, which preceded the New, God wiped out the planet with the flood.

Not only is he unsure of himself he has a bad memory to boot. As if he wrote things down simply so he could remember things.

Sounds like someone else I know.

Gotta get going. ly.

Originally posted by mikeprodigy

Maybe its a metaphor.

edit on 6-4-2012 by mikeprodigy because: (no reason given)

You think?

People take things too literally.

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive
reply to post by EvilSadamClone

 

Maybe it wasn't a tree of knowledge but the act of carnal knowledge. Maybe God didn't want them multiplying.

If he didn't want them multiplying then why did he create them with the biological ability to do so? And what exactly would be the point of banning them from experiencing sex? Being the only two sentient beings in the garden for eternity, & most likely in a state of absolute love, experiencing each-other sexually would seem to be the most logical thing....

So no, your theory doesn't add up.

Neither does anything regarding the Biblical account of God creating/damning all of mankind.

reply to post by TheLieWeLive


No, I hadn't heard that one. Thanks.

reply to post by Patriotsrevenge


Why are you bashing him? the title said what this whole thread was about. If you don't like it stick to the delusional god loving threads. Anyway its a good question God is the ultimate good and ultimate evil. He created evil in the first place that is unless you believe God is not omnipotent. If God is omnipotent he knew the results of his creations and purposefully made them flawed so they would not defeat temptation and would eat the fruit against his wishes. kind of a sick minded individual if you ask me, that's why I dropped that religion like a bad habit years ago.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


Except he didn't need to test their faith. Without the tree of knowledge, there would've been nothing else but faith. because there wouldn't be knowledge of any other option but to believe.

Originally posted by Raelsatu

Originally posted by TheLieWeLive
reply to post by EvilSadamClone

 

Maybe it wasn't a tree of knowledge but the act of carnal knowledge. Maybe God didn't want them multiplying.

If he didn't want them multiplying then why did he create them with the biological ability to do so? And what exactly would be the point of banning them from experiencing sex? Being the only two sentient beings in the garden for eternity, & most likely in a state of absolute love, experiencing each-other sexually would seem to be the most logical thing....

So no, your theory doesn't add up.

Neither does anything regarding the Biblical account of God creating/damning all of mankind.

Why would he tell them to go forth and be fruitful after he kicked them out? Why not tell them that while they were there? I did say it was a theory but it makes more sense than the proverbial "apple".

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


Don't start with Genesis. Go to the end to know the beginning.

Isaiah 46:10

I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.

Remember one thing: God has a purpose. That purpose can be know if you research all sources. To know what the fruit signifies, you need to start at the end and gather the clues. Carbon has 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons. Carbon is the mark of mankind and it the mark that runs our technology. The fruit of knowledge can be know by this key. Fruit is what develops from the tree when it grows. The center of the garden is under the surface. The Tree of life is DNA.

Now, follow the clues.

Genesis tells mankind that all the fruit of the garden (Earth) is good. One fruit is not to be touched. The fruit that is developed from carbon is technology. God already provided the best technology possible in the form of bio-mechanical life. This technology can only give. When we use carbon as technology, it can only take from the environment.

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

Why was Satan there to begin with? He was an Angel (Servant) and man was free. Satan exalted himself above God by desiring to be a creator above God. God banished him to Earth. Satan was jealous of man because God made man free and above the angles. Did God know what he was doing? Yes. Who made the choice to fall with Satan? Man. God told us not to reach out our hand. It was our choice and still is. What did Satan do?

4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Yes. God did know. Satan, however, did not fully understand that man would ultimately be his undoing. God knew all along that man would fall for Satan's error. By doing so, we learn about the error and put Satan in his rightful place. We must overcome Satan to fully fulfill the purpose of God in this plan. God also knew that man would ultimately defeat Satan and demonstrate God's authority over His creation. Man must have a choice for free will to be free. We choose the light or the darkness. Jesus said, "you must be born again." We are under a veil, so we must search to find our origin. Part of this purpose is for us to discover God and ourselves in the process. Defeating an enemy is a primary means of education.

If you go to the Forgotten Books of Eden. In the book of Adam and Even, we read this:

Ch 13 LINK

13 For I knew you would sin and transgress, and come out into this land. Yet I wouldn't force you, nor be
heard over you, nor shut up; nor doom you through your fall; nor through your coming out from light into darkness; nor yet through your coming from the garden into this land.

14 For I made you of the light; and I willed to bring out children of light from you and like to you.

15 But you did not keep My commandment one day; until I had finished the creation and blessed everything
in it.

16 Then, concerning the tree, I commanded you not to eat of it. Yet I knew that Satan, who deceived himself,
would also deceive you.
17 So I made known to you by means of the tree, not to come near him. And I told you not to eat of the fruit
thereof, nor to taste of it, nor yet to sit under it, nor to yield to it.
18 Had I not been and spoken to you, O Adam, concerning the tree, and had I left you without a
commandment, and you had sinned −− it would have been an offence on My part, for not having given you
any order; you would turn around and blame Me for it.
19 But I commanded you, and warned you, and you fell. So that My creatures cannot blame Me; but the
blame rests on them alone.
20 And, O Adam, I have made the day so that you and your descendants can work and toil in it. And I have
made the night for them to rest in it from their work; and for the beasts of the field to go forth by night and
look for their food.
21 But little of darkness now remains, O Adam, and daylight will soon appear."

If you read the next chapter, God tells Adam not to lose heart. After the days that are appointed for man on earth, God will come in the flesh and save mankind. He says this:

3 Again said God to Adam, "All this misery that you have been made to take on yourself because of your
transgression, will not free you from the hand of Satan, and will not save you.
4 But I will. When I shall come down from heaven, and shall become flesh of your descendants, and take on
Myself the infirmity from which you suffer, then the darkness that covered you in this cave shall cover Me in
the grave, when I am in the flesh of your descendants.
5 And I, who am without years, shall be subject to the reckoning of years, of times, of months, and of days,
and I shall be reckoned as one of the sons of men, in order to save you."
6 And God ceased to commune with Adam.

reply to post by TheLieWeLive


Well the point was, if he didn't want them multiplying in the first place he shouldn't have created them with the biological capacity to do so. Making sex the "off-limits" fruit seems quite pointless & irrational, seeing as human beings were also 'created' with that undeniable urge to engage in such acts.

I agree that anything is better than taking the "apple" passage literally; I suppose it could have been sex, or psilocybin mushrooms, or a host of other things. Most likely it's not actually God's word, but the words of men who sought to create a cult --- and in doing so spawned thousands of years of intense contemplation. In any case, I find it amazing how ancient text can bring about such fervent beliefs & debates in people.

reply to post by Patriotsrevenge


Why is it a "God hating post" to ask a question about the stories we are told regarding said deity?
I think it is rather Human to ask such questions, especially in the age that we live in now, not disrespectful at all, unless you are really bothered by the fact that you ''Blindly'' follow such beliefs.

This question is one in which I have seen so many jumps through hoops to give a satisfactory answer.
Metaphor? Maybe? But, there does seem to be some evidence of Intervention in Human Affairs and civilizations birth from primitive status. Alien Intervention or at least some advanced civilizations from human evolution that we know nothing about, has happened,,, if we are to believe any of the stories told.

But if we are to do as asked by so many apologist, and BELIEVE IN THE LITERAL TRUTH GIVEN IN SAID HOLY BOOKS,, then it is a fair assumption that Not ALL of the Story is really being told.

Which comes first, Free Will, or Faith in a Deity that asks questions that humans are not well equipped to answer.

My belief is that it is that if there is any truth to any of the Judeo-Christian-Muslim Mythos, We are not being given the Whole story.
Such as,, why start with Genesis,, if Lucifer and a third of the angels rebelled and started the whole Sin/Evil scenario to begin with? Why not start with the story of Why Lucifer Rebelled? And yes,, why did God tempt, by planting the trees as he did in the Garden where humans were to roam? And then ask them not to touch,,, any parent knows if you say DON"T TOUCH,,, a child is going to touch...
Especially something wonderful as those two trees,,,,, Trees of Life and Trees of Knowledge.

Most of us can sympathize with rebellion,, being on this site it is almost a given.
Some rebel against governments, and the secrecy they enshroud themselves within, some defend the status quo. Personally, I tend to question authority that says,, do as I say without good explanation of objective reasoning as to why one should 'obey without question''
Deity aside, it is obvious that something more was going on in this War in the Heavens than we are led to believe.

I believe it is a COSMIC turf war, and us poor ignorant humans are pawns for an Intrigue that involves parties that only 'play' at being good Gods.
Even as a small child, I questioned the whole story of Lucifers Rebellion and have yet to be given an answer by the apologist that appeals to human reasoning and common sense.
Grace and Faith aside,, really we are reasoning beings for the most part.

The most obvious answer in my mind it that Human History and evolution has had much Intervention by parties that we still collectively wish to revere as Deities, when more than likely they are no more Deity, than Capt. James T Kirk of Star Trek fame.
The story of Lucifer and why anyone would want to risk being expelled from such cool wonderful digs,,, unless there is more to the story,,, is beyond asking. Really ? and the fact that a third of the host of heaven followed tells me that this rebellion might have had good cause for reasons unknown by mere mortals.

Given that,, in War,, there are always two sides to a story,, and we have only the '''good''' sides reviews of events clothed in moral fables that exoterically says one thing,, but esoterically says another? Also, if this war is still in progress as so many say,, then, I am for knowing more about what really was the cause of the war. Maybe not even want to be on EITHER SIDE OF THIS WAR,, and just want to be HUMAN and left to our own evolution without outside influence and interference caused by said war. Neutral,,,,Sorta like Switzerland in WWII,,,, until more information is forthcoming.

Hubris and Pride are not really good enough answers in my book.
I think it is Vain, Not to crusade for more answers to these questions if we are asked to follow a leader, that we really no so little about given the scant information given in said "Holy Books".

I say question away. And don't expect to find all the correct answers in the Bible. That is like Cliff Notes on Why this Cosmic War began and really is Not the Whole Story no matter what apologist say.

Originally posted by Patriotsrevenge
reply to post by EvilSadamClone

 

Most Ignorant ATS thread award goes to you!!! So if your father tells you not to jump off the cliff you will do it anyway and then blame him for taking you there. Really, take your God hating post elsewhere.

Well said! It was the principle to not to eat the darn fruit period!! If Satan tempted Adam to eat the fruit, he would have told him to blow off! But, since Satan played his cards carefully using the female to convince Adam to eat the fruit, he listen to "her" and done so anyways. See, that is the problem in today's world. The devil uses females and not real a "real woman" to seduce a man for sex and other fouls things because we just can "resist" it can we. Adam on the other hand should had put his foot down or up "somewhere else" on Eve not to eat the fruit and if she didn't listen and ate it anyways, Jehovah would probably destroyed her and made Adam a new mate for him.

In the back of my mind I always thought that it whether or not they had sin, eventually it would have happen either way so now throughout human histroy, man has to learn the hard way.

reply to post by Raelsatu

In any case, I find it amazing how ancient text can bring about such fervent beliefs & debates in people.

True, so true.
By the way I was just throwing all that out there like food for thought. Who really knows who,what, when and if it even happened?
I guess we could start believing Beowulf too since it was said Grendel and his mother was a descendant of Cain and like many of the books in the Bible no one knows who originally composed it. I'm kidding of course.

--- There is a real war going on between God and the devil for the allegiance of man's will.

--- God knew the danger of Adam's free will that he might sin, so the atonement of the cross was prepared in case Adam sinned. God was ready for the fall of Adam, but that doesn't mean God caused the fall of Adam. That is why before Adam's fall, there is no mention of the atonement. After Adam's fall, the first mention of the atonement is in Genesis 3:15.

--- God is maker of peace and destruction. "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7) Evil in the OT means destruction, chaos, calamity. It does not mean sin. God is not the author of sin; we are. God brings destruction to the unrighteous when and onto whom He decides to. He can be patient and long suffering with the unrighteous.

Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
I personally find that there are many problems with the story of the original sin. The story goes like this:

God made Adam, then made Eve, then put the Tree Of knowledge in the garden of Eden and told them never to eat of it.

Satan, or Lucifier or whoever tempted Eve and she ate of the fruit then Adam ate of the fruit and they were expelled from the garden.

But you see, there's one big thing that people miss entirely.

God put the tree in there in the first place.

It seems to me that if God didn't want us to disobey him, wouldn't it be far easier just to not have the tree in there in the first place?

If he hadn't had put it in there, there'd never be any doubt to the existence at all and we would all be following his edicts today.

We are supposed to blindly follow him and obey him.

If he didn't put that tree in there, it seems to me that we would.

You are not following god when you are following the christian bible. You are following some humans perception of god and what is gods devine thruth. And the bible have been choosen by humnas what should be included and sorry to tell you my view is that it is not from god as a whole but a mixture of god's message and satans message since all the writers where not 100% pure from ego parasitic corruption. That is why there is so many contradictions in the bible. You are listening to both the devine egoless whole wanting you to evolve and the satanic ego parasite who want's you to destroy your soul. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the you he didn't exist and could influence your behaviour. Keep an eye on your own behaviour and question your own motives and you will be able to evolve to the next stage.

If I look thru this world of duality and follow devine symbiotic ideals and not my ego/(or other peoples ego) then I am doing good for the whole. No matter what any book say. We got a brain that can think logicly for a reason. To see pass manipulation from both devine and unholy and choose the right path.

Logic tells us that symbiotic true love is always right and never wrong no matter what any book say. If god is missguided and thinks otherwise then we have to make him/her/one understand the error of his/her/ones way. But I rather think his defense is: I never said that. It is the humans that are screwed up and are sprouting hate that I would never do. Eternal hell (disconnect from god) is only possible if you forever choose not to evolve. I would say that it is impossible but if soomeone wanna try then go ahead.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Isaiah 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.

i am curious. isaiah wrote this ? is he reciting god ? did he hear god or are this thoughts ?