The Fine Tuned Universe - affirms and confirms the Creator's existence! No?

Originally posted by EnochWasRight


You state this from incredulity with no references. I have provided references and solid evidence to back the claims. Where is your content? We hear your hollow words but see nothing beyond. If you want to be taken seriously, back your claims with quotes, scripture or science.

What? you want a reference to the lethality of the universe???

Or the fact that until the discovery of micro-organisms (germ theory) people had no idea that pooping where you eat was a bad idea?

Or did you want scriptural references on the amazing cure for wall mould?

Leviticus 14:2-52)
"This shall be the law of the leper."


(BTW this is not the republican health plan)

And you look to that book for science lol...................

You do not know the meaning of 'solid evidence'............just like you dont know the meaning of 'evolution'

And how you have the nerve to call anyone incredulous is incomprehensible

You're in over your head........Ed

Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by EnochWasRight


You state this from incredulity with no references. I have provided references and solid evidence to back the claims. Where is your content? We hear your hollow words but see nothing beyond. If you want to be taken seriously, back your claims with quotes, scripture or science.

What? you want a reference to the lethality of the universe???

Or the fact that until the discovery of micro-organisms (germ theory) people had no idea that pooping where you eat was a bad idea?

Or did you want scriptural references on the amazing cure for wall mould?

Leviticus 14:2-52)
"This shall be the law of the leper."


(BTW this is not the republican health plan)

And you look to that book for science lol...................

You do not know the meaning of 'solid evidence'............just like you dont know the meaning of 'evolution'

And how you have the nerve to call anyone incredulous is incomprehensible

You're in over your head........Ed

edit on 7-4-2012 by Prezbo369 because: (no reason given)

There you go again. Not one offering of science in your statements. Incredulity is defined as Skeptical; disbelieving. I have the nerve to call you this because you don't believe what is expressed in the Bible. Is there something incorrect with my statement?

You then continue to offer no context to your own beliefs apart from bias and insult toward me. This is always a warning sign that your platform lacks credibility. Provide some credibility toward your argument with context.

I can offer you evidence from science that evolution is a result of design and not a cause. The ATP motor of the cell produces a process of energy transfer. It is a completely mechanical process that is found in the simplest of life. It's called chemeosmosis for ATP synthesis. It has no basis in accidental life in any way, yet evolution holds that all life comes from inert matter by some mystery accident. See the video below. For you to suggest that evolution does not pretend to document the origin of life is not a fact found in the textbooks. Evolution does pretend to be the origin of life.

It was the origin of the first self-replicating molecule according to Dawkins. He says, "We don't know." A rational answer would not discount God. Creation holds the higher ground with the evidence. Dawkins does not discount the idea unless you are reading his books. From his books, God is not possible. Bias is in his equations so the equations are questionable. He gives you the answer. It's not that he disbelieves in a Creator, but hates the Hebrew God. "Any God anywhere would be completely incompatible." That's bias, not rationality. Bias leads to incredulity instead of an open mindset.

I have carried an open mind my entire life. I keep on the side of belief because that's where the evidence points. After reviewing a comparative study of religion, it continually points one direction--back toward One God and the Bible. Each of the seven areas of our world holds a key to the overall picture of what religion has taught us about the world.

Jesus said he was the way (Easter Concrete Philosophy - You must be born again), the Truth (Western Abstract Philosophy and Reason) and the Life (Source and Destination). No one comes to the Father (Godhead) but by Christ. The final fulfillment of the Law (universal standards) is Christ. He fulfills the law. There is truly only one law. That's love. Love is the point of what came before. God can only give.

1 Colossians 1:

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

If you would like the physics of what is stated above, consult my earlier posts or the link in my signature. Follow to the article on the Physics of God.

After you watch the video below, where Dawkins states that all life evolves from some mysterious accidental spark of the first microbiology, you can come back and tell me that evolution doesn't claim to be the origin of life. This time, provide your own evidence as I have done by example.

How many threads do we really need made about the same topic? It's your opinion, nothing is confirmed.

You have yet to show any proof that the supposed creator of the universe is a god or is "the God", nor have you put forth any evidence that "He" is loving.

It is fallicious thinking to assume that a mortal man can know the lifespan or timelessness of any creature that is just a bit longer lived then we are. How do I know the creator of the universe doesn't have a life span of only 500,000 years or so? Or 5 million, for that matter? Furthermore, how is it that that entity can speculate on it's own infinity? How is that knowable to Him?

The two most important claims you made in your OP were that the creator is God and He is loving. Those two claims are the ones that you will never have a chance of proving. Remotely, there exists a possiblity of proving a creator (remotely), but anything beyond that.....no.

To patronize me with trite circular and unsubstantial proof.......
Do not call me friend.

reply to post by Barcs


How much time do you have?

I wonder if atheists realize that by proclaiming they KNOW God doesn't exist, they are also saying they are omniscient, therefore making themselves god....

How can anyone who considers themselves to be "bright" be anything less than agnostic?

To me, atheism just SCREAMS "I am prideful, I am excessively arrogant, and I am seeking attention"....

Those poor souls

reply to post by Iason321


I agree. I have never understood how anyone with an appropriate appriciation for their own humanity can ever make such a case positive claim.

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx



OK - let's address your vids first xxsomexpersonxx.

First off sorry but I can't stand the low quality and vulgarity of your first ytvid - so I did not not watch it and can't comment on it.

Your second video actually is good as it confirms what I'm saying on two fronts. One it confirms that the universe is indeed fine tuned to support life - especially the planet earth. Second - that the earth IS indeed the only planet that IS habitable. The rest are just guesses - unfortunately the person who made the vid was not even aware of it. I guess it's was expected since he was all over the place contradicting himself.

Your third video - same o same old argument from Mr Tyson. It's not even worth a discussion because he only highlights the imperfection in nature and uses it as if it's the norm. Too bad he had to take advantage of other people's heartache and misfortunes in order to portray his puffed-up pride as if he is more intelligent than the Creator of the Universe. As if this is the overwhelming reality. What a small man he is if he thinks he can out-wisdom the Grand Creator!

What laugh you've provided xxsomexpersonxx if you also think that this all there is to life according to Tyson. There's more to it even in our present IMPERFECT condition and circumstances. There's more in store specially in the coming future.

But just to give you an idea of the magnificent and overwhelmingly bounteous beauty in nature, let me just show you a short video.







Question to you - are you of the same mentality as the people in your videos? Vulgar, Confuse and no appreciation of the great beauty? I wonder.

How do you think such beauty came to be?

This arguement is one that turns right around, and shows how un-designed for life this universe it. How can anyone in support of a Creator want to draw attention to how well the universe supports life? It doesn't, at all, besides in the tiniest, nearly invisible, sliver of space where we are.

So if you believe that the Universe is "un-designed for life" how did we get here then? In other words to you xxsomexpersonxx there's no such thing as laws of nature? A finely tuned laws of nature to support life?

Do you believe we got here by accident - is that what you're saying?

tc.

Originally posted by Iason321
I wonder if atheists realize that by proclaiming they KNOW God doesn't exist, they are also saying they are omniscient, therefore making themselves god....

How can anyone who considers themselves to be "bright" be anything less than agnostic?

To me, atheism just SCREAMS "I am prideful, I am excessively arrogant, and I am seeking attention"....

Those poor souls

You're claim is only relevant to gnostic atheists, who are just as arrogant as gnostic theists.

Most atheists, never make any claim that they know that nowhere in the entire universe, there is anything that could be remotely defined as a God. Instead, they claim that there's no good reason to assume one does.

I do agree that anyone 'bright' should consider themselves agnostic, regardless of if they believe in deities or not, and know that it's impossible to be 100% sure of anything. All Theists, Deists, and Atheists, should be wise enough to hold their beliefs with the understanding that they CAN NOT know 100% for certain. However, that's the only thing I'll agree with you on, as you judge an entire group of people off a bases of a drastic misunderstanding of what they believe.

Learn to understand, so that you may learn to tolerate. Differentiate the types of people you're describing, from the group you apply those traits to.

Originally posted by edmc^2
One it confirms that the universe is indeed fine tuned to support life - especially the planet earth. Second - that the earth IS only the planet that IS habitable.

This here is a massive contradiction. Anyone can see that. These two, can not both be true. Ironically, neither are true.

Originally posted by edmc^2In fact he's all over the place contradicting himself.

Immediately follow a contradiction of your own by asserting that someone else is contradicting themselves, without showing how. Classy.

Originally posted by edmc^2
Question to you - are you of the same mentality as the people in your videos? Vulgar, Confuse and no appreciation of the great beauty? I wonder.

If you were familiar with DarkMatter2525/Darkantics works, you'd see he's in no way Vulgar, Confused, or lacking in appreciation. He's of good character, even if he casually uses profanity in his animated skits, not bitter in the least.

And if you knew me, I never swear, am not confused about anything, and I appreciate things how they are easily without imagining that they were created by any deities.

Originally posted by edmc^2
How do you think such beauty came to be?

Beauty isn't there unless someone see's it. Beauty is in our perception. As such, of course we'd see beauty in things that formed long before we existed, by our own nature, not by the nature of the universe.

Originally posted by edmc^2
So if you believe that the Universe is "un-designed for life" how did we get here then? In other words to you xxsomexpersonxx there's no such thing as laws of nature? A finely tuned laws of nature?

edit on 8-4-2012 by edmc^2 because: repost 2nd vid

I am not disputed that the universe has some very small portions that can and do sustain life. We're hear because we're in one of the tiny cracks of space that life fits in.

The "Laws of Nature" created a universe that's 99.999999999999% immediately lethal to life. Again, not fine tuned at all.

You may call it an "Accident" or "Chance", but when we're dealing with such a massive universe, the odds of just the tiniest hairline becoming life sustaining without intention, I'd call that inevitable.

Originally posted by Barcs
How many threads do we really need made about the same topic? It's your opinion, nothing is confirmed.

Too bad you have no appreciation of true science, because if you do - you should be able to confirm and see what many great minds have already seen. That is, that the universe is governed by a highly precise and fine tuned laws. And that such fined tuned laws require precision planning and great thinking ability. An ability not produced by mere accident and chance but by a great mind - God.

To you this is nonsense because you've already convinced yourself that chance and accidents are the causal force.

Because to you such profound statement as:

“every house is constructed by someone, but he that constructed all things is God.” (Hebrews 3:4)

is nonsense and doesn't mean a thing. You've already shown yourself to be incapable of logic and most of all common sense. Thus there's no evidence in the universe for someone who refuse to see the obvious.

Am I correct? Of course I am - you next replies will confirm this.

tc.

reply to post by Iason321

The OP's argument boils down to: I thank I am special, therefore there is a God.

Sadly, the OP is deluded. He is not special in any way at all (except possibility in his well-demonstrated inability to understand anything scientific), so the argument falls at the first fence.

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx


look xxsomexpersonxx here's what I said:

One it confirms that the universe is indeed fine tuned to support life - especially the planet earth. Second - that the earth IS only the planet that IS habitable.


you replied:

This here is a massive contradiction. Anyone can see that. These two, can not both be true. Ironically, neither are true.

Not at all - in fact let me use your own statement:

you said:

The "Laws of Nature" created a universe that's 99.999999999999% immediately lethal to life. Again, not fine tuned at all.

You may call it an "Accident" or "Chance", but when we're dealing with such a massive universe, the odds of just the tiniest hairline becoming life sustaining without intention, I'd call that inevitable.

So like you said "the odds of just the tiniest hairline becoming life sustaining without intention, I'd call that inevitable."

To confirm and affirm this let me quote Prof. Prof. Greenstein

"So many coincidences! The more I read, the more I became convinced that such ‘coincidences’ could hardly have happened by chance. But as this conviction grew, something else grew as well. Even now it is difficult to express this ‘something’ in words. It was an intense revulsion, and at times it was almost physical in nature."

here's what I said in the op:

In short Prof. Greenstein states that "The Symbiotic Universe" is governed by physical constants. Some of these constants are so fine-tuned that if they (he states) were off to the very slightest degree, the universe will not / can't exist. He also stated that without these fine-tuned constants life will not be possible.

The video in the OP also shows that a slight adjustments of these laws - life will not be possible.

So there's no doubt about it - the universe is Fine Tuned for life!

The ONLY question is - who fine tuned it?

To you and the Professor the answer is "God is not an explanation."

But if it's not the Creator - Jehovah God, who or what then?

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by Iason321

 

The OP's argument boils down to: I thank I am special, therefore there is a God.

Sadly, the OP is deluded. He is not special in any way at all (except possibility in his well-demonstrated inability to understand anything scientific), so the argument falls at the first fence.

Whut??? Who's saying that I'm special - no one is saying that 'xept you Astyanax son of Hector.

Man what a delusion.

Fact is I'm dirt, nothing a sinner and condemned to die for my sins but because of God's undeserved kindness and love we have life.

I'm sure you're aware of this scripture:

“. . .“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. . .” (John 3:16)

It's not that man is especial but that God loved mankind.

I hope this is clear enuff for you.

And one more thing - because of God's love he fine tuned the Universe to such precision so that life will NOT just exist but COMFORTABLY exist on the Blue Planet Earth - his crowning achievement of long ago.

tc.

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx

Who, who says it's a coincidence? Absolutely no one. Life arises in places that can sustain life? How is that coincidental?

Uhmm...you, atheist, evolutionists, skeptics and critics.

Also, it's "Goldilocks Zones", plural, because there's plenty of them, and likely life in many of the other ones as well.

OK - name me a planet that is teeming with Life.

tc.

Argument from complexity...again



It's a typical fallacy...one you keep on using in most of your threads

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Argument from complexity...again

It's a typical fallacy...one you keep on using in most of your threads

Of course it's a fallacy to you because you don't accept that the Universe is Highly Fine Tuned.

Furthermore since you have no concept of what a complex system is thus it's fallacy. It's like showing showing an iphone to a swine or a dog. Since they have no concept of how complex the iphone is thus it's nothing to them.

In other words, a highly fine tuned system like the Universe is a fallacy to you. Am i right?

Unless you wanna change your mind.

tc

reply to post by edmc^2

Whut??? Who's saying that I'm special?

You are claiming that a whole universe is fine-tuned to support your insignificant existence. If that isn't calling yourself special, I don't know what is.

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx


I am very tolerant of them.

I am in the company of sinners and atheists every day, I openly invite them into my home and feed them and share the word with them.

I feel compassion for them, because I know the world is a very cold, brutal, lonely and depressing place when you are without God (I was an atheist the first 19 years of my life)

Have a happy Easter everyone and God bless you all!

reply to post by Astyanax


The whole universe IS fine tuned for our existence....

It's noones fault but your own if you fail to see it, and we ARE special, we are NOT insignificant.

Keep telling yourself your life is pointless, you are insignificant, and the universe is a random mass of chaos and destruction, and I'll keep telling myself my life has meaning, that I am significant, and the universe is finely tuned for us.....

Whatever makes you "happy".....