SHTF...Real guns VS. BB Guns.. lets end this!

learn how to use and make a sling.

not a slingshot, but the thing david used to take out Goliath.

ammunition is all over the place. and it can be made with a sock/shirt/towel/whatever.

you can become an expert pelter in about a day or 2

I am just guessing but, the effective kill range on a bb gun that shoots at 435 fps is probably less than 100 ft., and the game would be small rodent. Trapping would probably be more effective. Brandishing a bb gun at an intruder is a very good way to get killed. Looting for bbs? We should consider why the SHTF event is happening, and if we believe everybody will be moderately passive during such an event, or if there may be those with malicious intentions. Don't spend five hundred on bbs and co2 catridges, buy a cheap gun in a popular caliber and stock enough bullets that you can eliminate a small group of marauders- that should help you replinish your ammo. And don't loot, civility will be our best chance at coming through a SHTF scenario alive.

air guns might be good for small game but remember er never leave it loaded with air because it cause it to eupture if dropped or cause its seals to blow out. i have seen this happen several times over the years

alot of large factories in the uk deliberately employ pest control using air riles due to the silence/cost since they dont have to have a firearms license and dont scare away the rest of the pests to be culled due to the noise and if you miss wont damage the building

but given a good airrifle with a modified spring can equal a basic .22 rifle easy and pc plod in the uk cant measure the muzzle velocity without alot of tools to prove its illegal so you can arm yourself pretty decently here in blighty with just the adjustment of a spring

As strange as it sounds, a blowgun can be useful also.

I have a 72" .40cal blowgun that is deadly accurate up to about 40 feet. I've killed pigeons with it and even a rabbit once, but that was as much luck as skill.

I bought a cork dartboard and we'd play blowgun pub darts and drink beer for hours. Some nights the whole neighborhood was in my garage. It got to the point where triple 20's were routine, with all 3 darts. We had to move back to make it more of a challenge.

The steel tine darts are cheap but bend easily, and once they get a bend they're shot. Thet will penetrate a car tire sidewall, and pass through a hollow core wood door.

I think i would have to go with the bb gun for the fact that its still going to do some damage either way, overall its lightweight, its much more quieter, the ammo and resources are in an abundance and they are also safer to use for yourself, but i must admit i would rather be fighting someone with a gun compared to a bb gun...

reply to post by RickGrimes


In the UK it can be quite hard work to get a firearms license, so 9/10 air rifles and pistols would have to suffice. However as much as i love my air rifle i would feel much better off with an actual firearm, both ways of doing things have their merits.

reply to post by AGWskeptic


Really? That looks like something worth looking into. No moving parts to service, making usable darts is probably easy too.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


I'm totally with this poster.

And, if it's a cost issue, consider the cost of .22 ammo. Pretty cheap. You could likely get around 550 rounds for under $20. Also, you're not factoring in the cost (or availability) of those CO2 cartridges.

We used to use BB guns as kids to play guns (we wore a couple of jackets, and yes, we were pretty stupid), so I have ZERO fear of being shot by these things. And yeah, if it was pointed at me (so I could see the opening of the barrel), I'd tell the BB gun from a real one in a second. MAYBE you could kill someone with an eye shot (not me, I wear glasses a lot), but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

Originally posted by Homedawg
reply to post by indigo21

 

HE calls them pros...I don't see them that way over a 12ga and,again,what will you do with it when you can't get gas any longer?Throw it at a quail?

While I agree that a .22 is better than a BB gun, it is only marginally better than a pellet rifle, which you can get in .22 caliber. A CO2 rifle would be foolish, as the cylinders tend to leak out once punctured and you need to use that cylinder up before it leaks out. The single pump good quality air rifles ($300 and up) will last a very long time, and the ammo is much lighter than .22 ammo.

My full bug out kit has both, and .22's are well represented. I even have one that is accurate up to 500 yards.


i86.photobucket.com...


Granted my full bug out kit is my RV, so it's bigger than most.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by AGWskeptic

 

Really? That looks like something worth looking into. No moving parts to service, making usable darts is probably easy too.

I bought mine 15 years ago at Northern Hydraulics, think it was $20 for the 72", $15 for the 48". But I see them all over now, lots of sporting goods stores are carrying them. The selection of darts is pretty good, from cheap pointed steel tine to tungsten with little broadheads.

Not much good against a person, but good for small game if you practice enough.

We played around with making homemade darts, but the store bought ones were so cheap it didn't pay. I'm sure a good homemade replacement could be found in a survival situation though. We had pretty good luck with heavy copper wire and mini marshmellows.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
My issue with bb guns is this: What can they do that a crossbow cant? Crossbows are nearly as quiet, have reuseable ammo, are easy to carry, and FAR more lethal than a bb gun.

I guess i look at it like this: Yes, a bb gun would have its uses in a survival situation. But There are tools, such as a crossbow, that have all of the same uses, and more. And in the end, in a survival situation, its all about choosing what would be the MOST useful to take with you.

Give me a 12ga., a .223, a sidearm and a crossbow. Ill leave the bb gun at home.

Thats the answer for all your problems...the crossbow. When the arrows are gone you can make some yourself....with good maintanace even your grandchildren in a new world can use it to feed their families and protect themselves.

So, did we ever figure out which is better?
Folks have mentioned bb's, pellets, firearms, bows/crossbows, slings, slingshots, Etc.
Sure I have most of these, but each fills a role.
I would never use shotgun slugs to take a squirrel, just like I would never use a bb gun against a bear, running and climbing would do me much better.
None of these instruments are better than the other as they all have a correct application.
So,....what was the debate about?
Overall for me would be my Ruger 10/22, I can take any game or deter any of the others that may be harder to take with it.
I can carry a thousand rounds with it as well without weighing myself down.
Just my choice is all.

Originally posted by indigo21
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

You completely ignored all pros of BB guns offered by OP

I didnt ignore them, there simply isnt one single pro of a bb gun that cannot be had by another, more universal, weapon.

Ill gladly address any points brought up.

The BB gun is a alternative for a fire arm. It can be very usefull to gather small game in a SHTF situation.
Also do not under estimate the damage it could do in a self defence action.
Maybe people who say it will not work have the classic BB gun in mind.These days some airguns are extremely powerfull and will take down boar and deer. Although I never ever shot a animal with it, my Daystate Air Ranger is a fantastic weapon.The pellets are cheap and the 250 bar pressure behind the pellet is easily transferred from a scuba tank to the gun. The good thing is that I have a Hill air compressor pump so if necessary I can manually bring the gun up to max pressure. Mounted with a serious laser, telescope and search lamp Its a ideal survival tool.

With all that equipment, wouldn't you be better off wit han actual firearm,likea simple bolt action .22? If you are prohibited from owning one, I can kind of understand.Still, spending the time necessary to become proficient with a bow,either compound or trad, would probably be wiser. A bow is equally useful on large or small game,and quiter than any air rifle.
I think the term"BB gun" is kind of confusing things. Most serious air guns,at least those appropriate for taking small game, are generally pelletguns and not BB guns. BB's can be fired in some of these, but with less accuracy and no real advantage. Also, the hard metal of the BB can harm the rifling over the long term.
I have shot squirrels with a Sheridan Silver streak in .20 cal, and it was quite effective. A gun like that could indeed be useful, although it has almost no advantages over a .22. Still, if it was all I had, I'd be happy to have it and use it.

Have you heard the saying "Don't bring a knife into a gun fight"?
Unless your Rambo don't be a hero and try to remotely think about threatening someone with a firearm unless you intend to kill them with it.

Point that BB gun at me and you better be prepared to use it and make it count, if you don't you've just shown me your weakness and that would not be good.

By all means a BB gun or slingshot could be very useful to hunt small game however in self defense it WILL get you killed if the other party has a real firearm, knife or hand to hand combat skills.

Know your fight and know the capabilities of yourself and your equipment, backing down is not a sign of weakness, it as sign of intelligence and rational thinking.

I realized with all the attention this thread recieved that it accomplished several things

First this thread opened up alot of eyes when it comes to alternative means of shtf must have weapons.... sure the idea i presented might seem absord or controversial.... but i made alot of preppers aware of the advantages of at least carrying 1 air gun in their arsennal... and i am proud to have made some of you see the important role that an air gun or rifle has along side a real firearm....someday if one of you finds yourself surviving out there with a bb or pellet gun because of this thread then i feel like i accomplished something and i played a part in a fellow human beings survival......

But just like i might have influenced some of you to expand your shtf arsennal ....you guys have also influenced me and persuaded me to get some real firepower to better my survival chances should i ever be faced with a threatning unavoidable conflict..... yes because of you guys i have purchased a taurus 38 S revolver.... i get it next week wednesday.... also joining the revolver will be a. 22 rifle....

In the end i think many of us learned from this thread..and at the end of the day thats what its all about...helping each other survive

reply to post by RickGrimes


Congrats!

I am happy for you.

reply to post by RickGrimes

I think that an air gun is a good idea. You may not have take down large game or fend off looters regularly but you will probably have to take small game on a daily basis.

One of the things that I learned while checking out what would work best is that people hunt large game with handguns. Pistol Hunting For Whitetails is a story of someone who has had better luck than many with a rifle. He uses normal .357 Mag rounds and keeps the shots under 20 yards.

I started looking around for what that meant and this is what I came up with: CCI .357 has a 158 grain bullet and a muzzle velocity of 1150.This is around 456.5 fpe at the muzzle and at 20 yards it has 449 fpe. That is less than half of the 1000 fpe cited as the least for a humane kill. This gentleman says that all but one of the deer he has hunted dropped on the spot. The runner got to 60 yards and dropped.

Having a S&W .40 I was interested what its numbers would be. I went to ballisticsbytheinch.com and using a Trajectory plotter I figured that the handgun I have could be called upon to do the same, as long as I do my part. A .40 hunting round out of a gun with a 6 inch barrel has 450 fpe at 145 yards.

I also came across a guide for modding a Crosman 1322. A $55 dollar multipump pellet gun. Modded and using heavy pellets it can put out 13 fpe. According to Field use of an airgun 8 fpe at the target will take jackrabbits. That would be 60 yards with the modded 1322.

A Crosman 1322 with 2000 25gr pellets weighs 9 lbs. The ruger 22/10 alone weighs 9.5 lbs and with the same number of rounds would weigh 24.5 lbs

I think a large caliber handgun with 50 rounds and an air pistol would cover both small and large game. Finding a way to shoot arrows with the airgun would cover mid sized game without wasting handgun ammo.