The Bible Isn't Stupid, We Are

Originally posted by Starchild23
Old Judaic traditions.

yes... control! same as Islam they arrange their women which is discrimination, not pleasing to the sight and corrupt.

they want submissive like Islam... and at this point I would argue that God was a female

I can support that idea because it is hard to put a face to God, male or female.

other cultures have problems with that though... we're getting over it here in the grand ole USA.

Originally posted by SisyphusRide

Originally posted by Starchild23
Old Judaic traditions.

yes... control! same as Islam they arrange their women which is discrimination, not pleasing to the sight and corrupt.

they want submissive like Islam... and at this point I would argue that God was a female

I can support that idea because it is hard to put a face to God, male or female.

other cultures have problems with that though... we're getting over it here in the grand ole USA.

Now imagine what they say about us...

reply to post by Starchild23


I say this... Liberty has the Flame now...


I don't care what they say, I care what is right.

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by Starchild23

 

I say this... Liberty has the Flame now...

I don't care what they say, I care what is right.

edit on 9-4-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)

Welcome to America, where they don't care what you care about as long as you keep making money.

reply to post by Starchild23


I can put a face to Mary and Jesus that's about it... and we have effigies of them. We don't worship these images they represent something different to me.

Jesus the man and Mary the woman, pretty simple. (God is in love) and equality.

reply to post by Starchild23


I do not speak for my whole Nation... I speak for myself personally.

is it you that wants to make me a spokesperson for my nation?

human rights interest me, nothing wrong with that... no one is to dominate any other race, sex or creed. If I was in control of my military you bet you bottom dollar I would be all over the middle east and any human rights disasters I can find!

it's the American Way... love it or leave it



...the ends Justify the means

Originally posted by NaptownBrown
reply to post by Starchild23

 

Here is my proof: Thousands of years of ancient Hebrew prophecy regarding the Messiah fulfilled exactly as had been predicted. Thousands of years before Jesus arrival, ancient Hebrew texts describe him.

Not convinced enough? Ok, there is plenty more.

Jesus Christ DIED and was DEAD for three days. And then rose from His tomb and appeared to hundreds of people, whose testimonies are recorded in The Bible. He sat down and ate a meal with some of them. Not just one person saw Him, but many. You don't believe it because it is recorded in a book (as opposed to documented on film)...yet, you accept the history of many other things based solely on what you've read. You believe them as fact because of the testimonies of others.

Here is an example: If I beat Tiger Woods in golf, but nobody saw me do it...the story would quickly fade away. But if I beat Tiger Woods in golf and 100 people saw me do it....then the stroy would get legs. People would write about it. People would record the occasion.

Hundreds of people saw the resurrected Christ. If that is not proof to you, than you are simply refusing to believe.

Your own argument goes against you, Nap. If you beat Tiger Woods, you are 100% right; people would write about it. HUNDREDS of people, meaning there would be so many sources that it would be hard for anyone to disbelieve. What do we have on Jesus? ONE book. And it's not only that it's just one book, but every piece of what could termed as compelling evidence is missing.

Where's Noah's Ark? We don't know.

Where's the Ark of the Covenant that contains the Ten Commandments? Can't find it.

Where's the body of Christ? Well, ummm, would you believe it floated up into space? Yeah, that's the ticket.

From what I've seen of burials in the ancient past, the deceased were placed in catacombs. There are catacombs with thousands and thousands of bones. So, if god supposedly killed every firstborn of Egypt, tell me, where is this catacomb? Surely it would have been marked somehow, and written about in Egyptian history, right?

So, what we have is a book full of inconsistencies and contradictions, with no evidence to back up any of it.

Did Jesus exist? Hey, who knows. Did he walk on water? Did he bring Lazarus three days rotten back from the dead? The only response I can muster is: There has never been, nor will there ever be such a thing as magic.

When Jesus fed a multitude on a few fish and a few loaves of bread, why didn't just 10% of that multitude write about it? They didn't have TV or radio. All they had was writing. There should be sources upon sources upon sources to validate this event. Where are they?

Nobody thought to save his mother's body? The body of Lazarus? Why isn't the place of his last supper memorialized? Why wasn't the whole cross saved? The thorn of crowns?

Today, there are people claiming to miraculously heal others in the name of Jesus. Why can't they restore a lost limb?

reply to post by jiggerj


what I have on Jesus is that he sees this in the Catholic Church... all the personal Jesus' out there.

his values into the future, we have separation of church and state here so alot of people can be militant in their desire for Justice regardless.

the Federal Government and the Constitution make the rules here... personally I direct injustice through the music I listen to, it's very angry!


...the dark side has no rival, test your faith!

Originally posted by NaptownBrown
reply to post by Furbs

 

The majority of those people are forced to worship Allah in their country or they will be killed. So They do not 'worship him as they please'.

There are not over 500 million people in the world being FORCED to worship Allah.

Even if there is one person that is NOT being forced my point stands in stark contrast to everything you are saying.

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by jiggerj

 

what I have on Jesus is that he sees this in the Catholic Church... all the personal Jesus' out there.

his values into the future, we have separation of church and state here so alot of people can be militant in their desire for Justice regardless.

the Federal Government and the Constitution make the rules here... personally I direct injustice through the music I listen to, it's very angry!

Sorry, friend. I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Could be that I'm just tired.

reply to post by jiggerj


I mean the Church can not hold Jesus' spirit... it is here on earth. God is in Heaven.

the Catholics are just another system of control trying to keep the Jesus, but his spirit lives...

Jesus has anti establishment written all over him... and that is exactly what the Catholics do, they say they have his voice... whaaa! are you serious? only they can give you the blood and body of Christ?

they are not keepers they are child molesters as evidenced all over the news amongst tons of other things like all the wealth.

Jesus' spirit walk this earth and when time is in need to serve his truth then it will arise by any means...

it is designed to scare 'the living pants' off establishments, Slayer's lead vocalist is a Catholic btw.

Unlike his Slayer bandmates who profess to being atheists, Araya is Catholic.[12] In an interview, Araya expressed his belief that "...Christ came and taught us about love, about doing unto others. That was his preach: Accept each other for who we are. Live peacefully, and love one another." When asked if he believed in God, he replied "I believe in a supreme being, yeah. But He's an all-loving God."[13] Araya explained that he has a "really strong belief system," and Slayer's words and images will "never interfere with what I believe and how I feel.... People are not in good shape to where they have to question their own belief system because of a book or a story somebody wrote, or a Slayer song."[14] Araya commented about the misconception of the band labeled as Satan worshippers, "Yeah, yeah I think that’s one of the biggest misconceptions towards the band, but next to that just the fact that we’re normal." If guitarist King writes a good song, Araya puts his beliefs aside, "I'm not one that's going to go, 'This sucks because it's contrary to my beliefs.' To me it's more like "This is really good stuff. You're going to piss people off with this.'

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by jiggerj

 

I mean the Church can not hold Jesus' spirit... it is here on earth. God is in Heaven.
the Catholics are just another system of control trying to keep the Jesus, but his spirit lives...
Jesus has anti establishment written all over him... and that is exactly what the Catholics do, they say they have his voice... whaaa! are you serious? only they can give you the blood and body of Christ?
they are not keepers they are child molesters as evidenced all over the news amongst tons of other things like all the wealth. Jesus' spirit walk this earth and when time is in need to serve his truth then it will arise by any means...it is designed to scare 'the living pants' off establishments,

Thank you for clarifying. I'd like to focus on this part, if I may: "Jesus' spirit walk this earth and when time is in need to serve his truth then it will arise by any means..."

If Jesus' spirit has been around for 2000 years, tell me, what has he done? The last two thousand years has been plagued by war, horrific cruelty, ignorance, and disease. The personal suffering over the last two millenia had to have been utterly unfathomable. No, if evil (as in Satan) existed, these 2000 years were his.

But, Satan doesn't exist, nor does the spirit of Jesus.

reply to post by jiggerj


you would have to ask the dark side about that... you know the establishment, all the ones our founders got Americans away from.

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by jiggerj

 

you would have to ask the dark side about that... you know the establishment, all the ones our founders got Americans away from.

edit on 9-4-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)

Our founders got us away from the dark side? Is this before we killed off all the indians and started buying slaves? Or was it after we killed people for being witches?

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by jiggerj

 

you would have to ask the dark side about that... you know the establishment, all the ones our founders got Americans away from.

edit on 9-4-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)

Our founders got us away from the dark side? Is this before we killed off all the indians and started buying slaves? Or was it after we killed people for being witches?

surely (I) didn't do those things to anybody? nor did the multitudes of the faces that make up America today...

the dark side yes was here first... it took the father of my Nation mr George Washington armed with the Moore's family bible and a few other very intelligent men who started taking their own truth from the bible and correcting it, Thomas Jefferson for one has his own truth form the texts. (the best parts)

en.wikipedia.org...

Jefferson states that he conceived the idea of writing his view of the "Christian System" in a conversation with Dr. Benjamin Rush during 1798–99. He proposes beginning with a review of the morals of the ancient philosophers, moving on to the "deism and ethics of the Jews,""

I wasn't born yet in that time though... times were tough and I am sure the same people who founded my Nation tempered all this the best they could.

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

-the Man

Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776 (Dated)
Constitution of the United States, September 17, 1787 (Dated)

Racism and Judging others is a terrible thing ...get over it and rise above

Originally posted by jiggerj
Our founders got us away from the dark side?

like I say, you would have to ask the Catholic Church and the Jews about that... I was born an American and there is no religious institution/establishment associated with my Constitution or the Federal Government here, I have no ties, only the freedom to choose... and I like Jesus, Spiderman and Indiana Jones. I am bound by birth to my state laws and the Federal institution's law of the land.

I wonder how many people born or living here could pass this test? being they do not teach you enough in public school about where and who you are being an American.

www.csmonitor.com...:ctzn:b

thanks "school teacher" much appreciated

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by NaptownBrown
reply to post by Starchild23

 

Based on what? A movie you saw?

Based on how he treated her. Based on how Jewish men are virtually forbidden from being single. Based on how he was called a "rabbi", and rabbis (by definition) have wives.

Also, based on the fact that he asked her to continue the church for him. Unfortunately, Peter is a jealous fraud.

edit on CMondaypm090945f45America/Chicago09 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

How he treated her? There were many women in The BIble who followed Jesus and cared for His and His disicples needs, such as cooking. Jesus mother, Mary, also followed Him. So did Salome. And many more if you would like me to name names. You need to READ the Gospels man, I am telling you, the piece meal information you gather from Nat GEo or your friends or your Google searches are doing you no good. I really appreciate the discussion you and I are having, but you simply cannot trust sources that are not The Bible in this case.

The Bible explicitly states that John is 'the disciple whom Jesus loved'. In fact, many think that JOhn was His cousin or perhaps brother (as James was).

For the record, Mary Magdalene referred to Jesus as Rabboni (John 20:16). That is one of the few times Mary Magdalene speaks to Jesus in the Bible. And from that, you extrapolate that she is the closest?

PLease quote Scripture that shows that Jesus asked Mary Magdalene to continue the church. Please quote a specific passage in Scripture for this claim.

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by Starchild23

 

I say this... Liberty has the Flame now...

I don't care what they say, I care what is right.

edit on 9-4-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)

Welcome to America, where they don't care what you care about as long as you keep making money.

Starchild, we definitely see eye to eye on that one. The love of money is the root of all evil.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by NaptownBrown
reply to post by Starchild23

 

Here is my proof: Thousands of years of ancient Hebrew prophecy regarding the Messiah fulfilled exactly as had been predicted. Thousands of years before Jesus arrival, ancient Hebrew texts describe him.

Not convinced enough? Ok, there is plenty more.

Jesus Christ DIED and was DEAD for three days. And then rose from His tomb and appeared to hundreds of people, whose testimonies are recorded in The Bible. He sat down and ate a meal with some of them. Not just one person saw Him, but many. You don't believe it because it is recorded in a book (as opposed to documented on film)...yet, you accept the history of many other things based solely on what you've read. You believe them as fact because of the testimonies of others.

Here is an example: If I beat Tiger Woods in golf, but nobody saw me do it...the story would quickly fade away. But if I beat Tiger Woods in golf and 100 people saw me do it....then the stroy would get legs. People would write about it. People would record the occasion.

Hundreds of people saw the resurrected Christ. If that is not proof to you, than you are simply refusing to believe.

Your own argument goes against you, Nap. If you beat Tiger Woods, you are 100% right; people would write about it. HUNDREDS of people, meaning there would be so many sources that it would be hard for anyone to disbelieve. What do we have on Jesus? ONE book. And it's not only that it's just one book, but every piece of what could termed as compelling evidence is missing.

Where's Noah's Ark? We don't know.

Where's the Ark of the Covenant that contains the Ten Commandments? Can't find it.

Where's the body of Christ? Well, ummm, would you believe it floated up into space? Yeah, that's the ticket.

From what I've seen of burials in the ancient past, the deceased were placed in catacombs. There are catacombs with thousands and thousands of bones. So, if god supposedly killed every firstborn of Egypt, tell me, where is this catacomb? Surely it would have been marked somehow, and written about in Egyptian history, right?

So, what we have is a book full of inconsistencies and contradictions, with no evidence to back up any of it.

Did Jesus exist? Hey, who knows. Did he walk on water? Did he bring Lazarus three days rotten back from the dead? The only response I can muster is: There has never been, nor will there ever be such a thing as magic.

When Jesus fed a multitude on a few fish and a few loaves of bread, why didn't just 10% of that multitude write about it? They didn't have TV or radio. All they had was writing. There should be sources upon sources upon sources to validate this event. Where are they?

Nobody thought to save his mother's body? The body of Lazarus? Why isn't the place of his last supper memorialized? Why wasn't the whole cross saved? The thorn of crowns?

Today, there are people claiming to miraculously heal others in the name of Jesus. Why can't they restore a lost limb?

edit on 4/9/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

edit on 4/9/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

Well, lets take your response piece by piece.

First of all, there are five books that contain actual events of Jesus (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Acts). So not one, but five. The Bible is a collection of books.

Secondly, in those five books, hundreds of people witnessed the resurrection. If I beat Tiger Woods in golf, would each person who witnessed it write a book about it? No, but they would gladly testify to it. If they were all lying, then the story would eventually die out pretty quickly right?

So you need to see Noah's Ark to believe? Somehow I feel like if they did discover it, you would still not believe.

To address your Egypt-catacombs issue. We bury our dead in cemetaries over here in the States. Been that way for a long time. BUt just because there are no gravemarkers at Gettysburg, doesn't mean that people didn't get slaughtered there during the Civil War.

The plagues?, Read this article if you really want a physical explanation: www.telegraph.co.uk...

Originally posted by NaptownBrown

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by NaptownBrown
reply to post by Starchild23

 

Based on what? A movie you saw?

Based on how he treated her. Based on how Jewish men are virtually forbidden from being single. Based on how he was called a "rabbi", and rabbis (by definition) have wives.

Also, based on the fact that he asked her to continue the church for him. Unfortunately, Peter is a jealous fraud.

edit on CMondaypm090945f45America/Chicago09 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

How he treated her? There were many women in The BIble who followed Jesus and cared for His and His disicples needs, such as cooking. Jesus mother, Mary, also followed Him. So did Salome. And many more if you would like me to name names. You need to READ the Gospels man, I am telling you, the piece meal information you gather from Nat GEo or your friends or your Google searches are doing you no good. I really appreciate the discussion you and I are having, but you simply cannot trust sources that are not The Bible in this case.

The Bible explicitly states that John is 'the disciple whom Jesus loved'. In fact, many think that JOhn was His cousin or perhaps brother (as James was).

For the record, Mary Magdalene referred to Jesus as Rabboni (John 20:16). That is one of the few times Mary Magdalene speaks to Jesus in the Bible. And from that, you extrapolate that she is the closest?

PLease quote Scripture that shows that Jesus asked Mary Magdalene to continue the church. Please quote a specific passage in Scripture for this claim.

edit on 10-4-2012 by NaptownBrown because: (no reason given)

No scripture anywhere quotes Yeshua of saying that John is the disciple whom Jesus loved most". It comes from Deduction that is is John but can just as easially be Lazarus since he too was at the crucifix where the reference is given. Keep in mind that the Gospel of John was written after the Gospel of Phillip and so the story in John 19:25-27 was rewritten from the Gospel of Phillip

Read the Gospel of Mary for your scripture reference. OH, that's right, the Catholic Church wanted it burned because it didn't go in the "bible" even though Christians read the Gospel for a couple hundred years before it was banned and burned. To say that the "bible" is the only proof of Yeshua and Miriam speaking with one another is like saying "go to this website and based on it, that's what we should all think of something". There is much more evidence of Yeshua and Miriam being together than apart. According to Jewish Law, a "rabbi" must indeed be married therefore Yeshua must've been married. In fact, many scholars believe He was turning water into wine at His own wedding. She was the closest to Him. So say the Gospel of Phillip, the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Mary Magdalene. Even Peter says that He loved her more than the rest. Even the church proclaims Mary "The apostle to the apostles".

Another important point to remember, the four gospels in the NT are all based around one central un-named Gospel called the "Q" Gospel. In essence, they are four different retellings of the one "Q" gospel and were written AFTER the Gospel of Mary Magdelene, The Gospel of Phillip and the Gospel of Thomas.

You asked for specific scripture and here you go: "They said to him, "Why do you love her more than all of us?" The savior answered and said to them, "Why do I not love you like her?"

Just because something isn't in the bible doesn't mean it didn't happen. Emperor was creating a new religion to unite Roman when the bible came together and had to decide on one meaning from political pressure, not due to the purity of the events as they happened.